@danninyx - I believe that Katie Campbell email you and I that she will respond after she returns from shows this weekend. I believe that she will be able to help in some form...
New Breeder Needs Help
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Wow, I'll just end this here, sift through the mass idiotic spam and get what little information most of you have given me and go elsewhere. Can't beleive a breeding forum has this many rude and uninformed people on it.
Awesome information to a new breeder, the posts provided except ivoss's were really unhelpful.
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First off let me state that I agree with what ComicDom1 and and the rest of the individuals who responded to what LiLi said. From the sounds of it…LiLi needs to do a lot more research before she decides on breeding. We are pretty sure that anywhere she goes she will get similar advice.
LiLi joined our forum expecting to find information and advice on how to breed basenjis and what she found (the so called idiotic spam) is NOT spam. It is individuals sharing their experiences and advice. We are not a breeding forum, and probably not the best place to seek this type of advice.
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I agree with what Vanessa said. May I just remind everyone that the purpose of this forum is to provide a place for Basenji owners to make connections, exchange information, assist and encourage one another. It is above all a friendly environment for online discussion.
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I know nothing of breeding either, however the breeder I bought my Serenjane from was very serious about having her and her other puppies in a good home. Before the sale was finalized, the breeder took a deposit on the puppy, gave me lierature to read about the breed, required me to sign papers saying if for any reason we found we did not want her she must be returned to the breeder. We also had to sign a paper we would not breed her (we were not experienced with Basenjis) and we would have her spayed as early as possible and inform the breeder of this.
The breeder also wanted to know about our living arrangements, home or apartment and how big our yard was and did we have a fence. It was amazing the information we had to give. The breeder gave us a week to decide if this puppy was for us, while she held our deposit. A week later and another 300 miles round trip we brought our Serenjane home. That was 6 years ago. I love my Basenji but for me breeding would be out of the question. -
The other point to consider is there are not THAT many Basenji homes out there; and often even experienced, responsible breeders end up having puppies they are waiting to place, particularly as our economy declines.
If you think of it like a pie, the first and largest portion of the pie is people who think they want a basenji for the wrong reasons (clean, barkless, etc)…you don't want to sell to them, because they will be unhappy with their puppy. Then there is a section of the pie that would prefer to adopt a dog thru rescue, or an older dog (no problem with that!). Then there is a section of the pie that want to buy a puppy from a responsible breeder that has health tested breeding stock (that means genetic testing, not a vet check from your local vet) has put years of research into making the best match of the parents, is involved with either conformation or sport with their dogs, and will ask you a billion questions about how you will raise your puppy....these are the customers that most of us, who breed on this list are looking for.
But it sounds like you will fall into the category of backyard breeder...or someone who loves their pets and wants to make more for other people; and maybe make a little money on the side. I will tell you, there isn't much of a market for Basenjis in that area. Most of those puppies produced in that manner either end up in shelters, or in the puppy mill trade; mainly because the people that bred them don't do thorough enough screening of their puppy buyers.
To answer your original question, most of us who breed seriously, and responsibly spent years learning from mentors in the breed, spending hundreds (thousands?) of hours pouring over literature to learn about the breed; meeting and forming relationships with experienced breeders and deciding which lines we might want to use to breed from, and even then owning our breeding dogs on co-ownerships with those breeders.
There are very few responsible breeders that just purchased a couple dogs and bred them together and had that lead to success...it just isn't that easy. It is truly one of those things that success is directly proportional to how much effort you invest.
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Well, I just want to breed sweet socialized basenjis that's all. I do want money for the baby's I would be breeding, because if I said free, they'd go to god knows whos home. I mean, yeah, I would screen the people first, but if a dog is free you have a better chance of liars coming to get a free dog, than somebody who has the money to buy a puppy, and take care of it.
I've had my Li Ra (a rescue basenji-x puppy), for over a year now. She's just friggin' awesome.
I would of course take my puppy's back, if something happened and the people could'nt afford the dog anymore, or something like that happened. I don't intend to be a bad breeder at all, I just love the breed and want to breed them, my intentions for breeding are nothing but good.
I am worried about how many litters a female basenji dog can produce before it becomes too painful, or too much for her to do anymore. For me, that's just not acceptable, you can't have one breeding female basenji. It's just not right and fair to the dog.
I intended to get at least two litters out of a female basenji and then have her fixed and placed in a forever home. I don't care if it took a year, as long as it's a stable loving home for her.
I've converted our garage into a sterile environment, for the puppies, and plan to put some little kids furniture out there, and turn it into an awesome play house just their size.
I just don't know who to buy a healthy male from or female, I won't buy a puppy off of the internet ( just google basenjis for sale ) or at a pet store. I thought maybe a good breeder here could tell me how to go about this.
I'm looking for a male and female who have a clean family history, and who's parents have good mental health, socialized, etc.
I may be new to breeding, but so was everyone else here, when they had first started out. I could just start breeding any two basenji's tomorrow, and not care or test them and sell them, but I'm not.
"Basenji breeders in the U.S. charge between $500 and $850" - tanzabasenjis.com for a "companion" dog. So, you're telling me that you haven't made any proffit off of any of your puppy's, that you've "sold", when you pay for medical tests, food, shelter, etc ?
How is supposedly "giving away" basenji's you breed, making the breed better?
I don't see the problem here, if there is one.
I have never ever made a profit, I was lucky to cover the cost of raising a litter "properly"…. I didn't give away puppies... and again, responisble breeders do not make money, period!
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Wow, I'll just end this here, sift through the mass idiotic spam and get what little information most of you have given me and go elsewhere. Can't beleive a breeding forum has this many rude and uninformed people on it.
Awesome information to a new breeder, the posts provided except ivoss's were really unhelpful.
As stated this is really not a breeding forum… but Basenji lovers that happen to have a few breeders as members. I am not sure why you say "uninformed" people... we are telling you our experiences and that fact that responsible breeders do not make money from their puppies, nor is that the reason they breed.... I am not sure why you think the responses are spam? Here is another link to the cost of a litter http://www.geocities.com/rugosab/Prices.htm
This webpage was done a few years ago, so you can add to the prices listed…. as you can see, we do sell our pups, but in the end, we do not do it for the money, we figure if we break even, we have done well... but often that is not the case. -
This sort of got buried in my last post and I want to make sure it is noticed by anyone who may come along this thread because they think they may want to breed.
When I got my first basenji, long before I ever even thought about breeding, I was told that anyone who was even thinking that they may want to breed should first put in hours as a rescue volunteer. There are many things that rescue needs help with such as home visits, dog evaluations, transport, and of course fosters. I think that this is sound advice and the breeders that I know and consider responsible have all put in hours volunteering for rescue. Anyone who is going to bring a puppy into this world needs to have an understanding of the current pet overpopulation problem and why dogs are ending up homeless. There are many people who do not understand the numbers of purebred dogs that end up in shelters and rescue. I am sure that Sharron is better able to provide current numbers for BRAT. If you don't know why dogs end up in rescue then you can not do anything to prevent your puppies from becoming one of them. Even the most responsible breeder, if they have been doing it long enough will have pups returned because life happens and sometimes even the best of homes becomes completely overwhelmed by their situation. But the responsible breeder is that pup's safety net no matter what age. There are way too many dogs of all breeds that have no safety net and I think that getting out there and seeing how those dogs ended up where they did is a really important part of the research and education process for anyone thinking about breeding.
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You might not believe this, but we are trying to give you good information.
Breeding dogs is something that good breeders take very seriously.
They do their homework.
They show their dogs and they have quality puppys with the best health possible.
I seldom see these dogs in rescue, and when I do, these breeds do what it take to get them back into the home they were born into.
I do see a lot of puppies/dogs from folks who think they can make money selling dogs.
They don't the health testing and the homework to find the right sire/dam to create quality puppies.
They just put 2 dogs together and sell the pups.
I am hopeful your wanting to become one of the quality folks.
We have many show breeders here to would help you learn to do this breeding right…and you will be welcomed to share and learn and tell us how its going.
If your not going to do your homework, just going to do it, find 2 dogs and breed puppies, please think again.
I have done rescue too long to be anything but sad and upset if someone who is smart and can do better, doesn't... -
You might not believe this, but we are trying to give you good information.
Breeding dogs is something that good breeders take very seriously.
They do their homework.
They show their dogs and they have quality puppys with the best health possible.
I seldom see these dogs in rescue, and when I do, these breeds do what it take to get them back into the home they were born into.
I do see a lot of puppies/dogs from folks who think they can make money selling dogs.
They don't the health testing and the homework to find the right sire/dam to create quality puppies.
They just put 2 dogs together and sell the pups.
I am hopeful your wanting to become one of the quality folks.
We have many show breeders here to would help you learn to do this breeding right…and you will be welcomed to share and learn and tell us how its going.
If your not going to do your homework, just going to do it, find 2 dogs and breed puppies, please think again.
I have done rescue too long to be anything but sad and upset if someone who is smart and can do better, doesn't...Sharron, lets not forget those irresponsible people that are breeding (Mutts) (cough) designer dogs. It makes me shutter to think that one day I might wake up and discover some one is selling Basenjipoo's, all because they just wanted to either see what would happen, or wanted a basenji with curly hair.
Jason
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Oh, my heavens…my worst nightmare!
I so hope the public can become informed the these mutts with good pr...
shudder... -
Oh, my heavens…my worst nightmare!
I so hope the public can become informed the these mutts with good pr...
shudder...Why Sharron, I would think you would be first in line for a Basenjidoodle:eek:
Jason
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You are a bad young man! laugh..get to work..its mon and you shouldn't be bothering an old broad like me…grin.
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Hmmm….a curly tail with a little poof ball at the end?
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A tall curley coated dog that screams, barks and needs constant grooming, and doesn't mind…
You all are very, very bad!
laugh... -
I'm laughing my butt off.
I wish someone here could photoshop a basenji with a lion cut. Also, I want to be present when anyone has the nerve to pluck the ears:eek:
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And has a large repertoire of tricks and stunts…...but refuses to demonstrate any of them.
Pat
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Unless toilet paper in involved…
Laugh..you guys are crazy...I love you all
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Laugh..you guys are crazy…
Isn't that one of the criteria for basenji ownership?
Pat
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Here are a couple of links that will give you some information that many have already said - read this and think about what you are planning and if it fits this criteria. I will also suggest that you think about timing - right now people are giving up their dogs because they cannot afford to keep them or have lost their homes - shelters are full. From a purely ecconomic and marketing standpoint - you may not find homes for them so be prepared to keep 4 - 6 puppies forever cause once they are past the cute puppy stage - they are harder to place.
http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/index.cfm
http://www.dogplay.com/Breeding/ethics.html
You would want to make sure that the male and female you are using have had the following done:
FANCONI test - you would want both of them to be clear.
EYES - clear for PRA and PPM too - no history of cateracts or Glacoma.
Thyroid - you will want to make sure you know the results of this so you can plan breeding to non-thyroid affected dogs if possible.
You will need to have at least $3,000 set aside to cover and emergency c-section - or have at least that much on your credit card. Should your bitch be in crisis - the first thing Emergency Vets do is check your credit.
You will want to research pedigrees so you have a better handle on what lines might not go well together temperament wise.
Do you know enough about their behavior and training to be a resource for the people who would buy your puppies? If not - you are not doing the breed a favor.
Puppies need dew claws removed at 2-3 days of age and at least 2 -3 sets of shots prior to being able to go to new homes. The litter will have to be registered with the AKC so that you have puppy papers in time to go with new owners.
Legal nuts and bolts: Make sure that you are able to financially comply with the provisions of your states Puppy Lemon Law. You will need a business ID number and will need to keep track of revenue and expendetures. (be prepared for audits cause IRS loves to audit kennels)
The largest problem that you will have is; I don't know a single breeder who does all of the above who will sell you a dog or a bitch for your stated purposes. If you are going to show and be involved in the breed and want to learn from someone - you may find someone willing to work with you but not to churn out puppies that will end up in shelters of puppy mills and we will have to rescue.
So you decide - if you want to really be involved in the breed - happy to work with you. If you are going to only breed - not with my dogs.
re: making money you bet I've made money - I figure about $250 profit breeding intermitentely for 25 years. I suppose if you add in the 7 years of care for one of my oldies that someone just got tired of - that would probably be gone. Then there are the rescues that I've taken in and provided care and food for - so maybe I haven't made any money at it.
