Neutering - does it really change behavior?

[lvoss]

@Tayda_Lenny:

Question: Once he is neutered, he can not show and therefore can not finish his championship, and then probably wouldn't be bred… is that right? If that's true, then collecting from him and then neutering him wouldn't solve the issue, would it?

Having a championship or not doesn't change the quality of the animal. If the animal is breeding quality and has something to offer the breed then not having its championship shouldn't keep it from being bred. Just as having a championship doesn't mean that dog should be bred or that anyone would be interested in using them. If the breeder thinks he is something she wants in her breeding program, collecting him allows her to keep that option open while allowing you to neuter your boy. If her only reason for keeping him intact is that she wants to have a championship on him then you still have an issue but these are two separate things. Also, he can still be titled in all other events except conformation so could still "prove" his value.

[Quercus]

@Tayda_Lenny:

Yes, I have expressed these concerns to her, and while she is honest that she does want him as an option for breeding… is open to coming to a compromise with me. So that is good. She did say that neutering him may not help with the aggression or humping... but I don't think any of her dogs are spayed/neutered, so i wanted to see what the experience on this forum was with neutering/spaying an "older" dog and how that affected their behavior. I'm definitely not trying to bad mouth her... so I hope thats not how it is sounding.

Question: Once he is neutered, he can not show and therefore can not finish his championship, and then probably wouldn't be bred... is that right? If that's true, then collecting from him and then neutering him wouldn't solve the issue, would it?

Well, she's right that it *may not solve the aggression and humping. You just wouldn't know until you try…it certainly wouldn't make it worse though

And correct, he couldn't be shown after being neutered. But that is where the compromise comes in. He certainly could still be used in a breeding program without a championship title. Having had a handful of judges award a dog for his physical merit doesn't mean the dog should be bred, nor does not having a championship title mean that a dog absolutely shouldn't be bred. It is up to the breeder to evaluate what the merits of the dog are, and whether he or she should use them in the breeding program.....not the judges' decision.

[Quercus]

Ha, ha…Lisa and I said almost the same thing, at the same time

[JazzysMom]

Keoki was neutered at about 9 mos and we did notice a difference in him, although how much of that was due to the neuter and how much to maturity.

He had seemed a bit high strung prior to, but then Jazzy is so darned laid back maybe Keoki was just a normal Basenji, LOL. He is STILL high energy, but just not as tense; he's less like a spring getting ready to let go.

Bryan had him collected before we had him neutered so that he can still breed him should he choose to do so in the future.

As to the showing – a subject about which I know very little -- it took Jazzy a while to learn to behave on the table and in the ring, but she still managed to get her CH w/in two years. She actually got her first points at her first show when she was c-l-u-e-l-e-s-s as to how to behave! It seemed to me, as a spectator at the shows, that the judges tend to be a little understanding of the younger dogs not being quite still on the table, etc.
Oh- and she was TOTAL pet and only saw Bryan and/or the show ring on show days. I did nothing to train her for them because I was even more clueless than the dog as to the hows of show training and didn't want to screw her up entirely!

This is a side note, but there's something about the way Bryan holds the leash or something, LOL. I even took my dogs to see him at a recent show, and as we walked the parking lot both dogs were pulling and sniffing and all excited with the environment. Then we met up with Bryan and Laurie {which totally excited them, especially Jazzy}, and he took them [one at a time] for a little stroll. As soon as the leash changed hands, they were different dogs, just trotting along side him as beautifully as could be. They look GOOOOOD on the end of his leash; they look like goofballs on the end of mine. LOL

[Tayda_Lenny]

ok, i see… It may have just been my own thinking that she wanted to wait until he got a championship to be bred. She has not specifically said that, I may have just made it up in my head. ha ha.

She did mention last night that she could have him collected but would rather not... can't remember why. Maybe I'll revisit that with her.

Thanks for all of everyone's advice and input! It really helps to get some other opinions and options! I hope we will be able to work something out that works for both of us.

[tanza]

@Tayda_Lenny:

ok, i see… It may have just been my own thinking that she wanted to wait until he got a championship to be bred. She has not specifically said that, I may have just made it up in my head. ha ha.

She did mention last night that she could have him collected but would rather not... can't remember why. Maybe I'll revisit that with her.

Thanks for all of everyone's advice and input! It really helps to get some other opinions and options! I hope we will be able to work something out that works for both of us.

Exactly, having a championship doesn't mean they should or should not be bred… many of us show for many different reasons and there are many dogs out there that have lots to offer the breed that have not finished their championship. As said, it is the breeders choice with what they have in mind for their breeding program....

And collecting costs money along with a year charge to maintain the frozen semen.

I had my boy neutered at 4yrs and within 6 months at home he went from lifting his leg back to squatting to pee... so he no long felt it necessary to mark his territory outdoors once neutered...(using safe sex)..... but there was a marked difference in him after being neutered.

[YodelDogs]

@lvoss:

The one I use charges $45/vial for collection and $60/year for up to 30 vials for storage.

:eek:

That's it?!?! The reason I have not had Baron collected is that it will cost me $458 for the first collection and $90 per year storage!!!! Would almost be cheaper for me to ship him to California to have it done LOL!

[lvoss]

The first collection cost $245 which included the account set-up, 4 vials collected and frozen, and the first year of storage. If I have the same boy collected at a later date or there are more vials collected during that first colelction it is $45/vial.

[YodelDogs]

Consecutive collections for the same male are $300 per collection at this facility. If the second collection is done more than 6 months from the first, another brucellosis test (add $48) is required. I wonder why it is so expensive here?

[Quercus]

@YodelDogs:

Consecutive collections for the same male are $300 per collection at this facility. If the second collection is done more than 6 months from the first, another brucellosis test (add $48) is required. I wonder why it is so expensive here?

That IS expensive. I can't remember how much I paid when I first had Querk collected. There was a one time collection fee; even though the first time we only got one vial (not heat season), and the next time we got five (heat season). I think it was less than $200 for the collection of a maximum of six vials, and then $100/year to store some large number of vials.

[MacPack]

Topper was neutered at age 5, he was getting very dog (especially Boxer) reactive at the dog park and I decided it was time to lower the testosterone level. He moped around for a couple of weeks and was about a month before he acted like himself. After about 6 months his aggression was much less, and he had really not ever been a humpy dog so no difference there. He is 12 1/2 and still more playful than either of my others. I neutered Ed as soon as we rescued him, he was between 2 and 3, he never seemed to notice! We see neutered and intact dogs at the park, and while many of the intact ones are just fine, if there is any problem, it is usually one of them that starts it. Unless you are breeding, I see no reason not to neuter.

Anne in Tampa

[Tayda_Lenny]

Well the dog park that we go to just made it against the rules to have unneutered dogs in the park. Sad, but I can understand… it is a very popular park and there have been a few incidents recently where some dogs have gotten hurt. Its obviously not ONLY cause they are unneutered, but I'm sure it doesn't help things. Lenny is not the main offender (but he is definitely not innocent either).

I just sent his breeder an email saying that I really think that I should have him neutered at this point. We live in a really small apartment and its just not fair to have him cooped up in here without anywhere to run. He's leash aggressive and I normally don't walk them too much around my apartment.... we go to the dog park 4 times a week or so so they can run. He and Tayda have made a bunch of doggie friends at the park (and I've made some human ones) and I just don't think its fair to keep him intact for something that doesn't seem too likely to happen (her finding someone to show him out here that is close enough to me to not make it a HUGE inconvenience for everyone) at the expense of him having fun and socializing w/ other dogs and getting much needed exercise...

I said we could arrange to have him collected if she wanted.... I hope she's not mad.... it's not how we planned it to be, but it is what it is.....

sigh...

[tanza]

@Tayda_Lenny:

Well the dog park that we go to just made it against the rules to have unneutered dogs in the park. Sad, but I can understand… it is a very popular park and there have been a few incidents recently where some dogs have gotten hurt. Its obviously not ONLY cause they are unneutered, but I'm sure it doesn't help things. Lenny is not the main offender (but he is definitely not innocent either).

I just sent his breeder an email saying that I really think that I should have him neutered at this point. We live in a really small apartment and its just not fair to have him cooped up in here without anywhere to run. He's leash aggressive and I normally don't walk them too much around my apartment.... we go to the dog park 4 times a week or so so they can run. He and Tayda have made a bunch of doggie friends at the park (and I've made some human ones) and I just don't think its fair to keep him intact for something that doesn't seem too likely to happen (her finding someone to show him out here that is close enough to me to not make it a HUGE inconvenience for everyone) at the expense of him having fun and socializing w/ other dogs and getting much needed exercise...

I said we could arrange to have him collected if she wanted.... I hope she's not mad.... it's not how we planned it to be, but it is what it is.....

sigh...

My personal opinion, as a breeder is this… the happiness of the dog and the owner is the most important thing... if a breeder thought that the dog was that important to their breeding program... they should have kept them... period... when place... the most important thing is the home... not showing, not breeding, ot anything... but the home...

I hope that all works out for you and you can get him neutered.... and enjoy him as a pet and family member.. again that is the most important thing!!! NO question...

And in the end.. he is your dog.. you are the owner... it is really your choice to decide the best for you family/lifestyle... I hope that his breeder is one that sees this... and knows that he is in the best of homes... period!!!