Doing Your Homework

[Ambered]

spitfirek,
this is some info i have figured out over all the basenji searching i have done in the past year(ish)-a lot of it online. the best resource i have found is breeders that i respect.

i imagine a lot of the puppies advertised online are coming from puppy mills and backyard breeders. there are, however, some dogs from very reputable breeders being advertised online. if you find a puppy you like online you just kind of have to do your research to figure out who you are buying from.
if you ask for pics of the sire and dam and you get a "they are down at the barn" for an answer, you know it is not a good idea.
(this happened to me!)
ask for references in the basenji world. as far as good breeders go, everyone knows everyone, it is a rather small community.
oh and a lot of people who advertise, both "good" and bad will have a website listed. go to the website, if they have more than say, 2 breeds of dogs for sale, it is probably a rather irresponsible situation.

[lvoss]

@spitfirekrl1:

I actually have a question about this topic. I had done a lot of research on the type of breed I wanted and ended up adopting rather than getting a puppy. When we were going to buy a puppy (different breed) I was told by a rescuer that pretty much all online breeders (breeders that promote through a website) were puppy mills. She said that any responsible breeder has thier puppies sold before they're born and don't need to advertise. Is this true? I found that very hard to beleive but maybe that's just me being naive.

Responsible breeders do have websites and may have a puppy that ended up available for some reason listed on the website but in general what you will see on a responsible breeder's website is a planned litter announcement. Responsible breeders have a waiting list for their puppies before the litter is bred and usually the whole litter will be spoken for unless the litter is unusually large or someone changes their mind for some reason. My personal experience as a breeder, with my first litter the litter I had a started waiting list with 1 spot available when I did the breeding and the 1 spot was filled by the day we did the ultrasound but after the puppies were born 1 person had to decline because of a major life change. I was also at that point recieving many email inquiries a week about the litter. With my second litter I had a full waiting list 2 months before the litter was bred and ended up having not enough puppies for my waiting list. Most breeders in my area also help each other out referring to one another when they do not have a puppy available.

So if you see a webpage with multiple litters of puppies available for sale now, that is a sign of an irresponsible breeder.

Some things to look for when trying to find a responsible breeder on the web.

• Future Litter Plans are posted with health information, anyone can verify passing OFA and CERF results at http://www.offa.org
• When an email request is sent, the breeder is able to answer the questions for breeders listed at http://www.basenji.org/learn
• The breeder should encourage you to meet the breed before you make your decision
• The breeder should be a member of a breed club either a local club, BCOA or both

[MaxBooBooBear]

@jys1011:

We as now educated owners need to spread the word & really get out there talking to people about making educated choices. We all go shop at pet stores so let's start educating people

That's a very good point. I have never run into another basenji parent by chance where I live (CA Bay Area). Every single time I took Max out anywhere, people would always ooh and awwh over him and want to know what he was. Whenever anyone expressed an interest in getting one (because of course he looked like a calm, sweet, quiet, well behaved, beautiful little dog)–my first answer was--I don't recommend them unless you love.....and then I would go into all the traits that I loved about mine but many people don't expect (nor want) in a pet. An old friend of mine recently said to me--why are you getting two more when you told me they wouldn't be a good pet? And I had to admit to him--I told him they weren't a good pet--but what I really meant was, they wouldn't be a good pet for him.....because he didn't have enough patience.....

[jys1011]

BRAVO Maxboobear!!! Basenjis are not for everyone…this EXACTLY what the announcer said at the Westminster Dog Show!!

[nomrbddgs]

There are a lot of responsible, reputable breeders on the web! This is an extensive tool for a lot of breeders. The internet should not be taken as "THE WORD" for any breeder. The job of the potential owner is to get references and to check out those references. Even though many breeders are listed with the AKC/CKC that does not mean they are reputable either. When looking for a puppy look for what you want, but make sure you check out references and the breeder with others as well. This goes for any breed-not just basenji's. And don't ever be afraid to ask questions about the breeder to the breeder. If you've heard something about the breeder ask the breeder about what you've heard. That will give you a clue as to what the breeder is really like.

[tanza]

There is a link on the Basenji Club of Northern California to a great list of questions to ask a potential breeder about their breeding program and their pups they might be selling…. www.norcalbasenjis.org and then to breeder listings….
And remember usually you will only get "good" references.. and yes by all means ask about things you might have heard, but remember some of the things could be brought on by sour grapes... so think carefully before jumping in

[nomrbddgs]

@tanza:

There is a link on the Basenji Club of Northern California to a great list of questions to ask a potential breeder about their breeding program and their pups they might be selling…. www.norcalbasenjis.org and then to breeder listings….
And remember usually you will only get "good" references.. and yes by all means ask about things you might have heard, but remember some of the things could be brought on by sour grapes... so think carefully before jumping in

Too true, too true! That's why I said to talk to others and then the breeder themselves. You may find more than what you bargained for . . . or less. And you're right about good references. This is why sometimes the internet can be a good thing. Sometimes things get said that aren't always on the up and up and you can catch it.

[Quercus]

@tanza:

There is a link on the Basenji Club of Northern California to a great list of questions to ask a potential breeder about their breeding program and their pups they might be selling…. www.norcalbasenjis.org and then to breeder listings….
And remember usually you will only get "good" references.. and yes by all means ask about things you might have heard, but remember some of the things could be brought on by sour grapes... so think carefully before jumping in

Sour grapes, or two people who just don't like each other for whatever reasons. It helps to keep an open mind when talking to breeders about other breeders. From what I understand, there are breeds that are FAR more prickly than our is. But still, you will have some people that can't separate how they feel personally about someone, from that person's breeding program.

[nomrbddgs]

OOOOHHHHHH, Andrea! Prickly? Some of them are downright. . . mmmmmmm. Can't say it!

[Basenji_Boy]

I thought I'd bump this thread up there as it talks about responsible breeders.

If you are thinking of a Basenji, now's the time to start the research and maybe contact some breeders for information.

All have different ways of screening you as a potential owner. Yes screening YOU! A responsible breeder will check you out even more than you are checking them out. Don't think they don't want you to have a Basenji, they just want to be sure where and with whom the Basenji is going.

The breeder we bought our first B from made us write her an essay, why I want a Basenji. We totally understand now, why this approach was taken.

As Lisa says….do your homework.:)

[tanza]

Thanks for re-posting… it is a great time of year for it... since people will be thinking about maybe a puppy... And make sure any pup you are considering has had their Sire and Dam Fanconi testing done!

[JazzysMom]

When we were first thinking about getting a Basenji, my husband heard horror stories from everyone he spoke to – of course, none of those people had ever owned Basenjis, but they had all "heard". Somehow I still managed to get him to at least take a look at some.

I had done some internet searching and a list of breeders in the Washington state area, and made plans to visit three of them.
The first breeder had a lovely website, w/photos and stories about all of her dogs. She was breeding dogs for show, and had beautiful photos. When we visited her home, it was almost the end for dh. She had WAY too many dogs in a very small home; two litters of puppies {dog total in tiny home was 21!!!}, and one litter was from a 1 yr old bitch, which she'd bred because the owner "really wanted puppies from this bitch but was going to be moving"....., so she bred the pup as a "courtesy" ! The house was filthy.

Dh was about DONE. I begged him to visit the other two breeders anyway, and --- largely because he'd gone behind my back and contacted Sharron H., who told him that a Jumoke visit would be worth the time -- he agreed.
I also contacted the then-president of the Evergreen Basenji Club and she also recommended that I visit Jumoke and Blue Note Basenjis.

Reluctantly, off we went to Woodinville/Seattle. What a difference! Dh was instantly impressed at both homes -- the places were clean, the dogs well-kept, plenty of room for dogs and people.

Bryan at Jumoke had years of experience, answers for every question I could come up with, and ideas/advice for dealing with the Basenji "habits", which was really helpful at putting Dh's mind at ease {somewhat, LOL}, and we decided to go with him. The contract we had to sign was complete, had some stipulations as to the care of the dog {indoor, etc} and allowed for us to return the dog to him if we were unable to keep her. He's also been extremely available to us to answer any questions in the 2.5 yrs since we bought our first B from Jumoke.

Yes, DO your homework. Ask about the breed, but also do ask around about the breeders. If we hadn't done that, I don't think I'd have my two B's right now!

I have found that most breeders won't talk badly about another breeder, BUT they will be less enthusiastic about recommending them, or give vague comments like, "Yes, they've produced some nice dogs".
usually followed by a "Have you looked at So-and-so's dogs too?" Pay attention to tone of voice and body language when breeders talk about other breeders also. I think you can pick up a lot from that alone.

[tanza]

@JazzysMom:

When we were first thinking about getting a Basenji, my husband heard horror stories from everyone he spoke to – of course, none of those people had ever owned Basenjis, but they had all "heard". Somehow I still managed to get him to at least take a look at some.

I had done some internet searching and a list of breeders in the Washington state area, and made plans to visit three of them.
The first breeder had a lovely website, w/photos and stories about all of her dogs. She was breeding dogs for show, and had beautiful photos. When we visited her home, it was almost the end for dh. She had WAY too many dogs in a very small home; two litters of puppies {dog total in tiny home was 21!!!}, and one litter was from a 1 yr old bitch, which she'd bred because the owner "really wanted puppies from this bitch but was going to be moving"....., so she bred the pup as a "courtesy" ! The house was filthy.

Dh was about DONE. I begged him to visit the other two breeders anyway, and --- largely because he'd gone behind my back and contacted Sharron H., who told him that a Jumoke visit would be worth the time -- he agreed.
I also contacted the then-president of the Evergreen Basenji Club and she also recommended that I visit Jumoke and Blue Note Basenjis.

Reluctantly, off we went to Woodinville/Seattle. What a difference! Dh was instantly impressed at both homes -- the places were clean, the dogs well-kept, plenty of room for dogs and people.

Bryan at Jumoke had years of experience, answers for every question I could come up with, and ideas/advice for dealing with the Basenji "habits", which was really helpful at putting Dh's mind at ease {somewhat, LOL}, and we decided to go with him. The contract we had to sign was complete, had some stipulations as to the care of the dog {indoor, etc} and allowed for us to return the dog to him if we were unable to keep her. He's also been extremely available to us to answer any questions in the 2.5 yrs since we bought our first B from Jumoke.

Yes, DO your homework. Ask about the breed, but also do ask around about the breeders. If we hadn't done that, I don't think I'd have my two B's right now!

I have found that most breeders won't talk badly about another breeder, BUT they will be less enthusiastic about recommending them, or give vague comments like, "Yes, they've produced some nice dogs".
usually followed by a "Have you looked at So-and-so's dogs too?" Pay attention to tone of voice and body language when breeders talk about other breeders also. I think you can pick up a lot from that alone.

Very, very well put!!!!!

[lvoss]

Yes, part of doing your homework is meeting with more than one breeder and seeing different families of dogs. I always encourage anyone who asks me about basenjis to visit different breeders and meet their dogs. Each family of basenjis is different and maybe my family of dogs will not be as good a fit as someone else's or it may be that you find that mine have exactly the qualities you want but you will never know if you don't go look and meet others.

[dmcarty]

I think it's important for reputable and responsible breeders to have a presence online - if we don't - the only option will be puppy mills.

Long before internet - I thought I had done plenty of research and purchased a basenji - turns out it was from what I later discovered was a puppy mill. I consider myself pretty savy, not too easily hoodwinked - and they got me - so I always err on the side of getting as much info as possible out there I figure if I can be make that mistake so can many others.

We happen to have a BIG operation in Wisconsin that has a wonderful website - (puppy pics are horrid) and sells her animals for twice as much as anyone else around. She also places her bitches on a 'lease' to produce puppies. She BRAGS about not being in a Breed specific club because we are all nuts and she is USDA inspected so that is better.

Let me tell you that is frustrating.

[Duke]

@dmcarty:

I think it's important for reputable and responsible breeders to have a presence online - if we don't - the only option will be puppy mills.

Long before internet - I thought I had done plenty of research and purchased a basenji - turns out it was from what I later discovered was a puppy mill. I consider myself pretty savy, not too easily hoodwinked - and they got me - so I always err on the side of getting as much info as possible out there I figure if I can be make that mistake so can many others.

We happen to have a BIG operation in Wisconsin that has a wonderful website - (puppy pics are horrid) and sells her animals for twice as much as anyone else around. She also places her bitches on a 'lease' to produce puppies. She BRAGS about not being in a Breed specific club because we are all nuts and she is USDA inspected so that is better.

Let me tell you that is frustrating.

OMG - please explain "We happen . . ." I'm not a purest of dog owners, albeit responsible (neutered/spayed). But still find myself on the side of frustration with purebred purchase.

[lvoss]

Hopefully this won't get lost in cyberspace this time.

I think all Diane meant is that the state of Wisconsin has a "breeder" who breeds a large number of puppies, advertises on the web, and charges very high prices.

When it comes to the issue of purebred vs mutt, I think there is a place in this world for the purebred dog. I would be greatly saddened to lose a breed that I consider a piece of living historyl To think that DNA evidence supports that the little dogs we share our houses with today are the same breed that the pharaoh's shared their homes with. What a loss that it would be for a breed that has survived thousands of years and so many changes in civilization to be lost now.

I volunteer at my local shelter twice a week so I do know first hand what it is like. I was there today and the shelter is quite full and I am really hoping that some dogs started getting adopted because the shelter is running out of space. That being said, even after spending hours with the dogs at the shelter, I am still glad to come home to my responsibly bred dogs. There is a difference and I appreciate it more after working with the shelter dogs.

I started this thread to urge anyone who is considering a new addition to do their homework first. For those who do not or will not do their homework then please go adopt a shelter dog. They are great dogs and have so much to offer and by doing so a person can avoid inadvertently supporting irresponsible breeders who are contributing to the shelter population. If a person really wants a purebred then do your homework and buy from a responsible breeder. Here is a link to learn about the characteristics of a responsible breeder, http://basenjinet.net/Information/Buying_a_Basenji.html

[Quercus]

<<but still="" find="" myself="" on="" the="" side="" of="" frustration="" with="" purebred="" purchase.="">>

I don't understand this comment? Do you mean you have had a bad experience with a purebred purchase, or you don't think people should be making a purebred purchase?

This first sentiment I can understand…there are responsible breeders, and irresponsible ones...if someone gets burned by a someone breeding/selling dogs with no ethical responsibility, that is very unfortunate; hence the original sentiment 'do your homework.'

But, if you are conflicted about the ethical responsibility of the existance of purebred dogs...well, it might help to do some reading about why the exist. Each purebred dog was originally bred to do a specific job. Granted, yes, most of those dogs don't DO their original job anymore...but it doesn't seem fair to invalidate an entire breed (some of whom are being used for their original function) because consumers and irresponsible breeders took them and tried to turn them into something suitable for a lovely housing development. Most breeds have hundreds (or thousands) of years of history....does it seem right that we disregard that because here in the US (noted, NOT in Europe) we have millions of unplanned, unwanted dogs? Should we just mandate that no one be able to purchase a purebred dog to make sure all the irresponsibly bred ones get good homes? That doesn't seem very American? People should be allowed to make choices about how they acquire their pets without value judgements and shame, IMO....of course, as long as they have done their homework, and know what challenges they may be facing.

Personally, I don't think responsible breeders of ANY breed should be expected to NOT produce healthy, stable, pretty puppies so that all of the randomly bred pit-bulls in the innercities of America can be placed in happy homes.

As you guys know I LOVE all dogs, I really do. Purebred dogs are no better or worse than mixed breed dogs...but people should feel free to make their own choice about what they want for their family, without guilt or shame being part of the equation.</but>

[lvoss]

@Quercus:

As you guys know I LOVE all dogs, I really do. Purebred dogs are no better or worse than mixed breed dogs…but people should feel free to make their own choice about what they want for their family, without guilt or shame being part of the equation.

This is exactly my point but so much better stated. Their are pros and cons to every choice. There are many reasons a family may choose to adopt a mixed breed but there are equally as many and as valid reasons for adopting a well bred pure bred. The problem is that so many people are not opting for either of those choices but instead buy a dog from a person who has irresponsibly bred the litter be it purebred or mixed breed.

At the shelter we see purebred dogs, just as all shelters do. All the ones I have seen have at least 1 thing in common. Not a single one has a form of permanent ID. There is no way to know where the dog came from. That goes for the majority of the mixed breeds also though there have been some owner surrenders that have a microchip.

[Duke]

@Duke:

OMG - please explain "We happen . . ." I'm not a purest of dog owners, albeit responsible (neutered/spayed). But still find myself on the side of frustration with purebred purchase.

Sorry I wasn't clear with my thoughts on this. After learning from you, breeders on this forum, I have come to realize that doing homework is most often a way to acquire a healthy purebred animal. My frustration is seeing full breeds in puppy stores that keep puppy mills profitable. Pups from BYB are probably not sensibly bred - but bred by someone who probably wanted an offspring of their beloved pet. I love animals of all kinds too. I apologize for my short response - did not mean to offend anyone.:o