New to the Forum

[abrunelle]

@basenjimom2

Thank you for your information, I will do some further research as well.

Mr. T looks a lot like Lily, the facial markers any everything. I would post a picture but I can’t fogure out how to use this (not from my phone at least).

[abrunelle]

@tanza

I agree with searching out a reputable trainer that has worked with Basenjis, as I have heard and noticing first hand, they are head strong. This particular trainer; which I’m doing private lesson, not a group setting has had 3 basenjis before (she has shown my pictures of them) because that’s honestly the first thing I ask people, even my vet- I asked them if they’ve worked in basenjis and know how to deal with them. But thank you so much for your input and time. With Lily, I feel like most days she a wonderful angel and fun to play around and be with but on her off days, she is absolutely terrible. It’s literarily one extreme to the other. It’s those off days that want to make me give up and be done with her, when I say terrible- I mean it. It’s definitely discouraging. But maybe that’s because she’s still a puppy and hopefully will grow out of bad habits as well as with some training. I’m not sure if it makes a difference but Lily is a purebred as well, so I don’t know if that adds to her stubbornness.

[abrunelle]

@dmferrara

When you say I might have to get a bit aggressive with her, what do you mean by that?

[Antigone]

@pippi My little girl refused to negotiate. That is how she got her name. Antigone is the Protagonist in the Greek Play by Sophocles. She loved her Cat and both
Wolves but had zero use for other dogs. I walked her with a Harness so I had control of her Chest but did not ever attach a leash to her Collar. I brought her home at 12 weeks but I saw her every day because I would stop by after work. She was the only Tri in the Litter and she lived the longest of her siblings. The only time she was sick was from Cancer. I had the mass removed and she lived to be 16 years old. I miss her every day and am waiting to get a Puppy until the 15 year old Cat who is a killer passes.

Patience is the core ingredient and living defensively is best! Exercise is very important because a tired Basenji is a good Basenji! Hounds are known for eating poop that is a behavior that may start when they are Puppies because they will try to eat the Mama's poop. Other animals eat poop including Foals who eat their Dam's poop because it contains nutrients. This is considered a Vice if the behavior carries on into Adulthood but it is also a self comfort mechanism and indicative the the Horse does not feel safe.

Good luck!

[Antigone]

Welcome! You have come to the right place! I have had only one Basenji and I had her for 16 years. You have to be the Alpha in your little Pack and yes they are known for being little homewreckers. They also suffer from separation anxiety. 10 months is still considered a Puppy to me. The first heat for females comes when they are about 9 months old and that is what many consider to be the transition from Puppy to and Adult. Their bodies may be maturing but they are still pups who are feeling poorly and anxious and they get nippy.

This all will pass and I agree with others here Petco is no place to train your dog. Dog Trainers can be certified and sometimes Licensed depending upon where you live. Basenji Trainers are also handlers for the Shows so find one of these people and they will definitely be the best option.

Welcome again and love your Lily and if she has a Bandit's Mask that is an indicator of what you are up against! Just kidding!

A

[RGK9Ruler]

Welcome to the forum. You found the right place. You will need it... There will be those days, and we ALL have had them, when you wonder after all the research why you got one, then, they work their special magic, and bam, you fall under the spell again. Each one is different, but I think they fall into 2 categories, high and low maintence, or if you prefer, Angel and imp. Sounds like yours is going from puppy to teenager. It's important that you establish yourself as alpha/pack leader. It's a state of mind, how you carry yourself, and how you expect/command respect. If there is not a strong human pack leader, your basenji will quickly fill that roll and run your house. Basenjis are very smart and catch on quickly. Mine got bored in class and kept causing problems with the other dogs, we were politely asked to leave, (not at PetSmart). I would suggest that you walk the dog for 45 minutes prior to class so she is tired, and less likely to act up. Tim was so high energy, I had to backpack him, and weigh him down with water bottles to tire him out. We had great success with the gentle leader. I made some instructional videos for a friend on how to walk the dog if you need help there.

It's really important that you use positive reinforcement training. Making a basenji do something he/she doesn't want to do, can be disastrous. Sometimes this requires thinking outside the box on your part to get your basenji to do what you want him/her to do. Bribing, trading, bargaining, all work, but often times I have to let my basenji think it's his idea to do what I want him to do. Choose your battles wisely. I hope this helps, another resource is www.basenjicompanions.org.

[dmferrara]

@abrunelle I mean that you may have to get in her face, make her look you in the eye and tell her NO which may require you to physically hold her down until she stops squirming. Don't forget to give her loves after so she understands that it is the behavior you don't like but still love her. She will grow to respect you. I've had my rescue for 3 months now and I can now leave her home, inside the house without supervision or crate and she is just fine. 3 months ago, she chewed all the remote controls, shoes, even the vacuum! Here she is at work with me now! And as someone mentioned earlier exercise is key, they tend to nut up if not let out to run and play.

[DebraDownSouth]

Welcome to the forum.

Please ignore anyone suggesting you have to manhandle, "be the alpha", get aggressive, holding them down, alpha rolls or other such outdated abusive training. You need to train smart, not harsh.

Ditto on being careful about Petsmart "trainers". Double ditto on Patricia McConnel books and work being great. Her article beautifully covers resource guarding. Please read and use her article. People who respond to resource guarding as general or human aggression can make matters far worse. Do it right, and it is not hard to train your pup that yes, even poop in the park is not hers.

You can do almost all your own training by finding a few trainers online and videos, and working solidly on their lessons. Most dogs can be trained with all the basics at home, then use classes or a trainer to help polish or spot problems. Mary is excellent: http://www.clickerlessons.com/index.htm

Few handlers have time to be trainers. Look for trainers who belong to a group that does positive training and reinforcement, hopefully, one who has worked with hounds.

At home, there are ways to stop stool eating as you can put Forbid or other things in their food that makes the feces taste bad. For out walking, it takes several things. First, teach "leave it" command until it is 100 percent solid. Work on it until you can leave a piece of steak and get your pup to not take it. For walks, until you can get "leave it" solid, I strongly suggest either a head halter or basket muzzle. Feces can carry lots of things, from bacteria to parasites. You might try carrying a spray bottle with vinegar and spray the poo, but if your pup grabs it first, the only lesson learned is the need to find fast. Until you get this issue fixed, I'd avoid both dog parts and being unleashed.

All breeds have some differences, and even larger ones within the breed. I haven't found Basenjis all that different from Chows or Samoyeds or half a dozen others. One disadvantage is they are smarter than it's helpful. You can watch their little brains working and it's rarely for the good.

10 months is not a baby, but certainly a puppy. Full mature brain deliveries start coming in small doses and may take 3 or 4 years for you to have a real adult.

Training is far more than teaching a dog (or owner) how to do something. It really is relationship building. The relationship you develop by gently closing fingers around a muzzle while sternly saying "NO BITE" (or, ick, "NO POOP"), then leading away from temptation is one thing. Firm, consistent, calm ... and a pretty good sense of humor ... will win.

[Pawla]

As previously mentioned, there is something you can put in the food to make them stop eating poop. Always be the gentle but firm leader. They know the difference between fair and unfair. Going for a long walk before doing anything that requires good behavior is excellent advice - before leaving him/her alone, before an obedience class or going to the vet, etc. Taking an obedience class (look for a local obedience club?) is good training for YOU - not necessarily the b. You might get some ideas on how to work with a dog, but the main idea is to be consistent in the way you make your request. My b is extremely stubborn and often will "pull a mule" if he doesn't want to go in the direction I want - to the point that he will back out of whatever collar or harness he is wearing. My eyes are always on him and I never let him walk behind me. (Ceasar Millan would not approve :->.) Sometimes, I pick him up and carry him a bit, sometimes we just cross the street (and he thinks he won?) I tell people these dogs are not for everyone, they are more primitive than other breeds, and they don't take to training very well, but when they love you, you KNOW it is their idea and not just because you feed them. Keep us posted on how it is going with your little one - what works and what doesn't - it could be helpful to us all.

[Pawla]

I think basenjis are really "puppies" until about 18 months. It's funny, because they actually look like little adults at 6 months, and yet at 15 years old, people would ask how old my puppy was (I think they age well).

Please don't give up on Lilly - this too shall pass (eventually...).
Accentuate the positive, don't focus on the bad. If you can, find a way to take a break once in awhile.

[Patty]

You've been given very good advice but some is just not as good. NEVER be aggressive to your Basenji - it'll have the opposite effect and make her really aggressive. Basenjis never forget! Positive training can be more difficult with an older puppy but perseverance and consistency is the key. In my opinion a Basenji isn't naturally an aggressive dog, this has mainly come about by incorrect handling in the early days by ignorance of the breed. A puppy that leaves it's breeder is often 'spoiled' by the owner who doesn't take much notice of advice given by that breeder on socialisation, correction etc. I can't find evidence that you've consulted the breeder on Lily's current behaviour. Apologies if I am mistaken and I'm not criticising you in any way. You've obviously tried so hard with her. So pleased that you've joined this forum where you'll find advice from many experienced Basenji breeders who give excellent advice and help. I'm sure you'll find that you'll have great success. The other matter of them eating their own poo can mean that she is deficient in some of her nutrirional needs so check this before trying other methods. Eating other animal's poo is quite common and actually, I've never been able to stop this except that some later do. I have sheep with mine and have had little success in stopping my Basenjis eating their poo. I find that some never do it and some keep on until old age! My current remaining dog rarely does this. I wish you the very best for your happy future with Lily. She's lovely.

[DonC]

I think grangersmom's suggestion of When Pigs Fly is excellent. Also, you haven't responded about what poop she's after. Cat poop is always a treat, which is too bad because it's how people and animals get infected with Toxoplasma gondii (which is likely why it's there).

[tanza]

@patty - Being aggressive to ANY dogs is a no no, not just a Basenji

[Patty]

I totally agree, Pat.

[abrunelle]

Thank you everyone for the wonderful feedback and time taken out to respond, truly appreciated.

Lily hasn’t been around cat poop, so it’s only dog poop that I have seen her get aggressive about/enjoy.

She is 10 months, to me she is still in the puppy stages and we are doing positive reinforcement training at Petco, which she seems to be responding well to (sit, stay, wait for food, down, etc). My biggest concerns and issues are her aggression towards items that she “wants”. Wether it’s the poop or even a snack/treat.

The other day I came home to a shoe that, of course I got for Christmas, half eaten and destroyed. This is where the frustration comes into play because she’s doing super well, I don’t crate her anymore and she has free range but she also has plenty of her own toys to play with and chew. I didn’t have to put my shoes up before, and randomly this time she ate half of it. Seriously, half the shoe was missing. She is a perfect angel when I’m home but when I’m out is when she becomes exceptionally mischievous and that’s where my issues come in with her.

[abrunelle]

Oh, I’ve been asked if I’ve spoken with the breeder about her behavior, which I have. And I’ve kinda just got the generic “she’s a puppy and needs training” or “these dogs need stimulation to not get bored otherwise they get into trouble”

Other than walks, playing with other dogs, what other things can I do for stimulation to keep her entertained while I’m gone so that she isn’t getting into trouble?

Thanks everyone!

[Antigone]

@abrunelle 20 years ago when I got my little girl I left her at the Horse Farm where she packed with older well trained Doga. She modeled her behavior after theirs and it was the easiest Puppy training I ever did.You do have to be the Alpha but that does not mean doing anything harsh. These Dogs cannot stand being ignored! When my Dog did something that was not good I ignored her. Sometimes for a few minutes sometimes for an Hour. That is what I mean about being the Alpha. Nothing more and nothing less.

My Cat would pop the closet door open and assist my dog with the process of Clothing Destruction! When I had that Cat, my B and my Wolf the Cat was the Alpha! He would trap them at the bottom of the Stairs and sit in the middle of the Staircase flicking his tail. My B did not make that much noise when he did that and the Wolf was always quiet, he Howled when he was dreaming.

I never let her have access to the Litter Box so that was never a problem.

Hang in!!!

A

[tanza]

@abrunelle - You don't seriously believe that she knows the difference between her toys and your stuff, do you? You are giving the dog way to much credit. If you leave it where she can get it, if it gets chewed it is "your fault" in my opinion, period.

And it sounds like you for sure have a resource guarding issue and this you need to have addressed ASAP, as it will only get worse.

[RGK9Ruler]

I have to agree with Tanza here, your dog is definitely resource guarding. This behavior is unwanted, and can be disastrous if left unaddressed, or not properly handled. I had the same issue with our Bolt when he first came to live with us at 6 1/2 y/o. We have had him now for 6 years. I have worked extensively with him, but it is an issue we have to continue to deal with on a daily basis with training. I believe he had to be rehomed because of this issue. When he first got here, he thought sleeping in bed with me was his right, not a privilege that I gave him. He would not allow my husband to get into bed without charging/snapping at him. Clearly this was not acceptable behavior. If we were in bed, Bolt and I, and my husband then came to bed a while later, Bolt and I got out of bed, let my husband get into bed. Husband would then call Bolt up onto the bed tapping the mattress saying 'big bed'. Once the dog was in the bed my husband would have a few small treats and would work a little obedience with him before bed. Now when Bolt sees my husband coming to bed, he knows he's going to get a treat and do a little obedience. BUT even after all this time, if I'm asleep and the light is off, Bolt will growl at my husband. If the light is on, however, and I'm asleep, there is much less chance that he will growl at my husband. My husband watches his body language very carefully.

As far as chewing things....our first pair of basenjis were crated until they were 8 years old when we left the house. I had to remove a chair to a back room because Tim liked the cherry wood! Our female does not like to be left alone, although she has Bolt with her, she wants us to stay home. She will show her displeasure by chewing something of mine, glasses, ear buds, or will move my shoes to the middle of the living room. I try to keep all items out of harms way. It comes with experience and training you. Don't leave stuff out that she can get into, or chew. They have no trouble finding stuff on their own. Some basenji owners will give cream cheese frozen in a Kong for their basenji to chew. Ours just thought it was this weird thing, licked out the yummy stuff and ignored the Kong. It's frustrating, we all know, we have all been there, but be patient, and above all consistent. They are independent thinkers, what works for one doesn't mean it will work for yours, sometimes you need to try different things. Hang in there, it's so worth the reward!

[abrunelle]

@rgk9ruler

You mentioned you created your B for years; if I keep Lily crated for even 30 minutes she is howling non stop like it’s bloody murder. Living in an apartment, I’m concerned with her “noise level”. It’s really the only time she speaks out, when she’s crated.