Hard to live with my Basenji

[Rocky1]

@ktiefen1
I replied with my opinion . I have bred basenjis for 41 years and have educated many puppy people.
I tell people that when they bring a basenji into there house that they are bringing a " mini wolf" into there house.
Trainers that train other breeds are not equipped to "handle" a basenji.
I have used calming herbs and homeopathic remedies with great success and I learned over the years to never take these "wild things" for granted.
I watch people with puppies when they are thinking about a basenji,if they have children,I watch how they discipline there children. Once a coup[le came out to see my pups, they where not able to handle there own children so I sent them on there way. Way to many people are not able to control there children so why would they be able to control a basenji. You have to have strong personality to be able to handle a breed as primitive as a basenji.
I have found that the new Africans are much more trainable and so I have added them to my bloodlines.
I have a basenji Service Dog who is the most remarkable dog and learns faster then a child.Her temperament is outstanding.
Debra, I know you will remember this litter,the one from Jeff S. in Georgia.
She is the bases for my new breeding program. Most breeders out there are not focusing on what is important. You must breed a dog that has a stable temperament but also sell your pups to people who are able to stand up to the uniqueness of this breed.

[DebraDownSouth]

I don't remember jeff s. What is the kennel name?

Basenjis are hard..so are chows, Samoyed and a lot of breeds people need to know what to expected. They should consider doing a foster. But taking one without any experiences? No.

[theglassengineer]

Don’t give up! Three vets told me to put my b-boy down. I finally found a vet willing to work with us and a veterinary behaviorist. The vet behaviorist prescribed Prozac and alprazolam. We went from destruction, to daycare and now, my b-boy isn’t afraid I’ll never come back . It is work and I cried a lot. My b-boy didn’t manifest any behaviors until my b-girl died. He is the sweetest basenji, I would want no other. I’m so glad I hung in there. You can too! Don’t give up!
Best wishes. I’m in MN if you want the vet and vet behaviorist referrals.
Take care.

[mvdperez]

**@bluebert Hi. I am writing from Colorado where we rescued a female (very different 'creature' - as I do not truly consider them to be dogs, per say) eight (8) years ago when she was four (4). After being exposed to Basenji for about a year (male brothers and a young female), we made the decision to rescue her. She was extremely abused (1/2 her body weight when surrendered). Therefore, she came to us with different issues, but female aggression (fear and separation anxiety) in a different fashion. Although I cannot claim the expertise of the Breeder or those who have been owned by multiple Basenji, we do have a very close friend who renamed her for us (converted her previous English name to his Congolese dialect) who is from the Congo. He is from the Congo and filled us in at length about what we both found to be these amazing, but never truly tame creatures. He mentioned if they were not inter-bred, they would ALWAYS remain feral in nature and therefore, as previously mentioned, retain some of their ancestral traits which are very 'wolf-like' in nature. We have seen that with Bakagi. She has also constantly tried to establish herself as the Alpha female in our household, from which I constantly must perform reinforcing behaviour she is NOT. It seems a bit overt at times and she has indeed, showed some of the behaviour your young male has although never biting someone in the face. I am uncertain as to how you dealt with that situation but the discipline should have been immediate. Not cruel, but IMMEDIATE. It is the ONLY way they understand and comprehend. One absolutely cannot compare these animals to ANY other as one must remember they date back to the days of Pharaohs (at least that is the earliest recorded history of them - 5,000 years ago!), when the African Kings took them as gifts to the Pharaohs who adored them due to their silence, loyalty and regal appearance. They even mummified them (I have seen the mummies).

Our Basenji STILL has separation anxiety when crated at night or when we are gone. We have tried not crating her at night and allowing her to sleep in a room with us, but the aggression returned. As soon as we crated her, the aggression subsided.

To control the separation anxiety, I use a 'white noise' machine AND Baroque Classical Music (recommended by Colorado Basenji Rescue). It works! However, we DO have to use BOTH.

I HIGHLY agree with diet. If you consider that our behaviour - especially that of children - changes depending upon diet, think about that of him being a young male.

I also agree the dog run sounds like a great idea in addition to the homeopathic remedies. We have NEVER allowed our Basenji to be given ANY 'people' food and have always scrutinized her diet and supplements. I IMMEDIATELY remove anything which appears to alter her health or behaviour in ANY fashion as when she leaves this planet, I wish it to be due to natural and not man-implemented causes.

Biting of ANY kind is NOT acceptable. If he is chewing, are you offering him alternative things to chew - I.e. bones, long-term treats, Nyla bones (NEVER rawhide or tennis balls as rawhide is very bad for digestion and tennis balls are full of sawdust which will rapidly wear down their teeth).

I am not certain I have been of much help but if you wish to try to keep him and you presently feel you are unable to handle him, perhaps the breeder would agree you may be able to 'foster' him out for a while as it would also help him to be socialized if he is fostered with someone who is presently owned by a Basenji and has the patience to socialize him. His behaviour could prove to be entirely different around someone else outside of your home.

I will keep you both in my prayers as I feel these amazing creatures are well worth the effort.

[mvdperez]

I forgot to mention in my previous post, something which works with Bakagi when her behaviour is either aggressive or 'out-of-control'. I place my hand completely around her muzzle (simulating an actual muzzle), look her directly in the eyes, and firmly tell her 'no' or that her behaviour is unacceptable. She truly 'gets the message' even if I have to repeat the action. It is great advice passed on to me.

[ceecee]

Think of him as an adolescent child and believe me they are the worst. He's trying to push you to your limits and he seems to have succeeded. Their mindset at the best is "What's in it for me". My George is 7 now but I still have to be one or two steps ahead of him and he can still out wit me. You say he has severe separation issues.Do you talk to him and tell him that you have to go out for a while and you won't be long? I do, in fact I talk to him a lot. When you return make loads of fuss and give him a treat. They are a trying breed at best and I hope this bad behavior passes when he gets a bit older. Don't give up and Good luck

[Rocky1]

@debradownsouth
Debra,
Jeff Shettler,who's basenji,Kaden is a drug detector basenji.
You certainly trashed him enough 6 years ago. My Diva has
been wonderful and I also have Kilo who is a littermate.
Diva is a Reserve BIS Ch. and a Best in Field Lure Coursing Ch.
Both AKC/ASFA and also is a race Ch.
He did a great job breeding and she was a snap to train.

[Rocky1]

I would like to tell everyone a story about my basenji,Thunder.
Thunder has been gone now since Nov.3,2003,and a more loved
dog there never was.
Thunder was the product of one of my bitches that I sold and had
breeding rights too. She was bred to my wonderful dog,Lightning.
I have told this story many times and even all these years later,it still
makes me cry.
Thunders' dam was exposed to some bad drugs without my knowledge
as his owner had a boyfriend that abused drugs without her knowledge.
Because of this,the two pups that where born had brain damage.
To make a very long story short, Thunder had aggression related seizures.
He bit me MANY times and was very difficult to handle. He wouldn't go in his crate
and he would attack me for no good reason. He also had severe anxiety and separation
issues. But, I loved him dearly and worked to make his life as well as mine as good as possible.
With the help of a very wonderful herbalist,Marina Zacharias of Natural Rearing,I was able to get his mind on straight but only after him being on Prozac for 4 years which destroyed his liver.
He wore a muzzle everyday for his safety as well as mine,it only came off for him to eat.
He never minded and it was a good compromise for us.
I spent thousands on his treatment and I lost him at 8 years old. I never loved another basenji as
much as I loved my Thunderdog. So, if you are willing to WORK HARD and not just throw you dog away,it can be done.
I also blame Rabies vaccine for some of the aggression issues in not only basenjis today but all breeds. If you look at research, the rabies vaccine can and does cause aggression as a side effect.
Go to the Rabies Challenge Fund and look it up.
I tell people, if you are not willing to work with a basenji,don't get one, get a Golden or Shepard,Lab,etc.
Basenjis are a special breed for only the few who have the guts to stick it out.

[ktiefen1]

@rocky1 I thought a lot about your first post. I read fascinating information on posts on this forum in different threads. Is it accurate that the brindle basenjis are the newer basenjis and aren’t quite as wild as those from the early basenjis that were introduced to America? We have a brindle basenji and his behavior is not as wild as the behaviors described by bleubert in that first post. It sounds as if there are innately wilder basenjis than our basenji is. And if that is the case than I posted out of turn to your first post. Thanks.

[DebraDownSouth]

@rocky1 said in Hard to live with my Basenji:

@debradownsouth
Debra,
Jeff Shettler,who's basenji,Kaden is a drug detector basenji.
You certainly trashed him enough 6 years ago.

I had to look his post up. Trashing him? Anyone curious to see the abuse this guy spewed forth to everyone who disagreed with his not only breeding without testing, but so far from the clue bucket he didn't even know what tests to do for sure...maybe he'd just get the stud done?, site claims "positive training," but he uses shock collars cause ya know---us dumbies who don't have neurotic dogs.

https://basenjiforums.com/topic/11558/working-dog-basenji-pups-waiting-list/38

Full illuminating thread where anyone can see the only trashing was done by his irresponsible breeding and his personal attacks on several members.

https://basenjiforums.com/topic/11558/working-dog-basenji-pups-waiting-list

[DebraDownSouth]

Rocky no one can read your posts and doubt your care for your dogs. I also am thankful for the Rabies Challenge folks...we know the yearly vaccines are money makers, not helping animals.

We will always disagree about hard research vs opinions and pseudoscience.

There is zero research supporting aggression after rabies shots. Zero. Pseudoscience pages like Dogs Naturally talk about it, antivaccer sites, etc. But other than people ascribing aggression to a vaccine, it's just opinions. If the homeopath/natural gurus could prove it, they would.

Sadly, Prozac, while it's unlikely you could prove it killed your dog, I'd put my money on it next to yours.

It brings up a reality about many owners...we are given drugs and our vets fail to tell us the serious potential side effects. I balance Cara's health risks with dealing with a reactive dog every day. We are starting to wean her off. It's a terrible balancing act. Send whatever type of good wishes prayers or hope you can that we can safely get her off.

Obviously you did all you could, and even though we disagree a lot, i hope you believe me when I say that I really believe people with your dedication make the world better.

Lol now if you can work on not hanging onto stuff for 6 years (especially when your synopsis isn't really fair!) we'd get along better. Or maybe you enjoy the digs. Whatever makes you happy.

[Antigone]

@rocky1 Indeed, Basenjis are not for the faint of heart. Mine was always fine with Wolves and Cats. I read somewhere that the Basenji is a 2k year old breed and most closely related to Wolves. When I had my Wolves (2 different neutered Males at different times in my Dog's life) she adored them and her behavior became more Lupine than Canine. She was like that from the day I brought her home because I put her on the Bed and she went to the foot of the Bed and slept between my feet. She was denning which is a Lupine behavior.

She was attacked 4 times in her life by German Shepherd Dogs. The Wolves always chased them away and the German Shepherd Dogs were ALWAYS off leash. They came out of nowhere. I dropped the Wolf's leash and he had them running to their owners. My Wolves always came when called and knew when the aggressive dog was back with the Owner that the job was done. My Basenji and my Wolves engaged in 'Mutual Grooming' which was amazing.

If you are not going to Breed a male Basenji then you should have him neutered. My first dog was a Beagle and he was a biter. My Dad took him to the Vet and the Vet neutered the dog and he was much calmer and never bit another person again.

I love this Breed and mine was a gorgeous Tri and she had a 'Bandit Mask' over her eyes so I knew from the day I met her that she had a 'life of crime' ahead of her. I adored her. These are very hard dogs to deal with but with some effort and understanding problems can be avoided. It is NEVER THE DOG'S FAULT.

Good luck!

[Rocky1]

Debra,
I'm from the era back in 1976 that there was no testing done on basenjis. I'm not making excuses just stating a fact. When breeders started to find that some of our dogs where having "kidney issues" ,we looked for a cause.One of our breeders, Dr. Brown of Juju Kennels came up with a test but, it wasn't accurate . For years ,we relied on strip testing. But, hips where never done and the only eye testing was PPM at 8 weeks .
Long time breeders, those of use in it for 40 + years like me have established bloodlines that we know for generations. My lines go back to the late great Ch. Djakomba's Spotlight . I knew Spotty when he was only 1 year old and I got a pup from his very first litter,my bitch Mara who was Reserve Winners Bitch at the 1981 National Specialty.
I'm all for testing and I feel with the addition of the Avongaras we can again have a healthy population of basenjis.
Temperment has come a long way in our breed with the Africans.
I have nothing against you ,Debra but you have not even come close to the experience that I have with basenjis.
The reason I chose to Lure Course and Race my dogs is because they must show good temperament on the field or else they will be DQ'D.
My dogs are sound in mind and in Body and are very easy to live with.
I feel that people that want a basenji for the wrong reason should look elsewhere.And, if they go to a pet store,etc.and then can't live with there dog they end up getting rid of the dog.
I have taken in many basenjis from other sources and either kept them or turned them around and placed them in loving houses that where properly educated about the breed.
I do know what I'm talking about.

[DebraDownSouth]

@rocky1
I have nothing against you either, but I don't believe that just having years of experience equals superior knowledge. We both know that you either continue to learn or you aren't better than newbies. So you should know I respect experience tied to those who are always open to learning and trying to do better. In general, that includes you. In the pseudo science areas, those don't impact my view of you as responsible, btw. Time will prove some you'll have been right on and me wrong and I am fine with that.

As for me not having your experience in basenjis, no joke. I would hope that you actually pay attention to my posts, because you'll have noticed that I have said a million times that I am not a basenji breeder. You'll see me defending responsible breeding, deferring always to them on basenji health and genetics.

However, as a breeder who has been around for nearly 30 years, the things I don't defer to aren't breed related.

Genetics, testing, responsible placement...those are not breed dependent. Yes, in the old days few breeders tested...heck many of the tests we routinely do now weren't even invented. But as we learn better we either do better, or we accept we are willfully irresponsible. How someone can claim to love dogs, but be willing to breed without testing...risking not just the suffering of those pups, but the people who take them...yes, they make me sick. That we are still seeing fanconi affected young dogs when testing has been available for at least 7 years and other genetic disorders... it isn't forgivable. So someone like Jeff, who had the resources and education and ability to spend one hour learning how to do it right at least with testing...well I am joyful the litter came out okay. But that was luck, not him magically responsible because he lucked out. I also hope you actually reread the thread and saw that I was not alone in my view on his breeding, and that he was far more rude and dismissive.

My other issue is training. The illusion of some that basenjis are the only difficult/different/ancient/independent thinking breed is malarkey. As is the idea that they are the only breed that is not for anyone who is unprepared. With decades of Chow and Rottweiler rescue, please let me suggest that the dangers of unprepared owners can have deadly consequences in other breeds. Are basenjis different in some ways than many breeds? Yes. But they are still dogs that can be trained with positive training like any other breed. They are not unique in needing to be trained smarter...or in requiring that they almost need to think it's their idea. A Rottweiler is typically a freaking cake walk by comparison. They generally want to please you. But try training a Chow. Very much like a basenji. Talk to Samoyed breeders...scary smart, and scary stubborn. All three are ancient breeds btw...though there are newer breeds who also are hard.

I guess I'm saying, if I overstep my comprehension on basenji specific things, call me on it. But don't expect me to not stand up or express my views on responsible breeding, training and health issues. I've held too many dogs being euthanized for health/temperament/even age. They deserve better. We will never meet the demands for humane no kill options unless we stop the bad breeders.

[lizann]

I have read some comments about people getting a basenji and not being prepared for it at all. That was certainly the case with my husband and I. We had no idea whatsoever about how they behave. My husband just said let's get one of those dogs that don't bark, so I started looking for breeders. We drove nearly 200 miles one way to get one from a lady that said she had some that the broker wouldn't take and would sell us one for $50. I know now this was a despicable puppy mill. When we got there, she had 14 pups in a pen and told me to pick one of them and if we didn't want the papers on it she would just give it to us but if we wanted papers it would be $50. We said we didn't need the papers, she was just going to be a pet. So I picked one out, I had in mind on my way there that I would call the new dog Rosie but after I got acquainted with her, I said this dog is no Rose so I named her Skeeter. We had a 8 year old terrier mix at the time and the two of them bonded and she didn't show any signs of separation anxiety. She DID NOT like to ride in the car and still doesn't. She had a multitude of allergies, especially food allergies so I bought her special food at the vets office. I had no problem whatsoever getting her house broke and I have never crated her. Luckily, I dearly love dogs and my husband and I were very patient with her and wouldn't have dreamed of getting rid of her. She loved to pick on my husband, she would stand in a chair and wait until he walked by and then jerk his handkerchief out of his back pocket and run down the hall with it, she would chew it up if I didn't get it away from her. She has never given any sign of biting any one and I can even take food out of her mouth if it's something I don't want her to have. She loved to pull hair, when family visited that had long hair and sat on the couch, she would get up there and pull their hair. Not real hard the girls said it didn't hurt she would just tug on it. She also liked to groom my husband, she would get up on the arm of his chair and lick his head. She is a little over 16 years old now and is laying by my chair snoring as I write this. I have had a lot of different dogs in my life and I must say in my limited experience basenjis are very different than most dogs I've ever seen.

[Bluebert]

@rocky1

Whilst I agree that the breeder was not responsible and I was not prepared for what I was getting into - coming onto a forum for help and having someone rub it in my face isn't exactly helping at this point.

My breeder has completely removed himself from any responsibility - and whenever I called for help he always made it seem as though I'm being bothersome and gave me no help at all.

I came here for advice because this situation is significantly effecting my well being. I cannot take care of myself nor my dog adequately if I am not even able to go to work to earn a living or go to the store to buy food without the risk of having my house wrecked, my dog injured, or my neighbours taking action against me for the constant crying.

I am working very hard to make this work and I will not accept anybody telling me otherwise. I've been looking around for help around where I live but we don't even have a behavioural specialist around. This is the 3rd trainer I've started sessions with, and I've literally contacted all doggy daycares around the area but til now I've only found one willing to take him in and with most they are fully booked and with others I found that as soon as I mention his aggression towards male dogs, I am brushed off.

I am trying my best out of the limited resources and support I am finding and it has not been easy at all which is why I sent this post for some advice....

[Bluebert]

Thank you for all taking your time to share tips and advice with me - What I am taking with me is that he may eventually calm down and to keep trying using positive reinforcement. Also, his pack leadership training has made him take me more seriously since I've started which has shown some improvement

I am able to leave him in the living area by himself whilst I am in the bedroom without him freaking out and urinating which is already relieving a lot of stress for me. I have also started desensitisation training and til now have managed 2 minutes being outside without him getting into panic mode.

Also, some mentioned natural remedies, are there any in particular which are recommended?

[tanza]

@bluebert - Glad to hear you are making some progress.... Considering your comment in your other post about his breeder completely leaving you without assistance, you should consider sharing who he is so that others do not purchase from him. This is really unacceptable for a breeder in my opinion.

While I don't really recommend meds, have you talked to the Vet about a possible try?

[Rocky1]

bluebert,
I'm not rubbing your face in it as you say, I'm just a little fed up with people in general that don't do any research into the breed that they are getting.
A dog is a very big responsibility, you will have a dog for roughly 15/16 years,it is like adopting a child.
If your breeder won't take responsibility for the lives that he produced then shame on him but, also shame on you. What is done is done and now you have a problem on your hands.
I use the homeopathic remedy ignatia amara, you can get it in the health food store. I also use Valerian Root Complex also at the health food store.These will make crate training easier, It will also calm him down so he is not to aggressive. You also can try some lavender oil on your hands and pet him with it but only in areas he can't reach as basenjis will lick and clean themselves like a cat and you don't want him to ingest it. Orange ruffles also works well.
Vets will only prescribe drugs which I don't agree with anymore since I lost my beloved Thunder.
I can't stress enough to people that they find a breeder that will work with you and in my case I offer to train my pups for the owner. Being a responsible breeder is just not until the pups leave your house ,it's for the life of that dog.

[lizann]

@bluebert I wish I could be of some help to you but having had just the one basenji , I don't have any advice for you. I'm so sorry that you are having these problems. I did notice at my local vets office that they have what they call calming jackets for dogs, I don't know if that would be of any help or not. You have my sympathy, I can only imagine how trying this must be. I know Skeeter has started howling when I leave since our other dog died and it just breaks my heart when I come home and my husband says, she's been crying for an hour. Good luck to you, I hope someone somewhere can help you.