I am so sorry for your loss. I still cry over my losing very difficult but extremely devoted Basenji, Ella.
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Need Home for Basenji
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We may still someday try drugs, god knows they have helped the rest of my family!
Regarding the disarming, you are correct. I simply see no need to spend this type of money on THAT and put him through the procedure and adjustment when we have found a rather innocuous method to alleviate the danger. Granted, there still remains the possibility that a finger could slip the muzzle and be injured, but it's less likely than an injury related to dull teeth. I think, psychologically, that a bite from a dog with flat teeth would be more traumatic than a dog bumping his face into you in an attempted bite. With the muzzle, the 'bite' does not occur. With flat teeth, the bit still occurs. The money spent on a possible sanctuary situation, in my opinion, is a better option for now because things are working at this point. It's the eventual child factor we are preparing for. Muzzle or not, disarmed or not - it will be an entire new element in the equation. Tucker may turn into a kids most valuable defender, or, he may try to eat a kid. We just can't know that now.
What I can't remember whether or not I have posted is that during all of this, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. Currently, we're administering eyedrops to the tune of around $200/month to keep inflammation and eye pressures at bay. So far, so good. The eye specialist says the other lens will go at some point, but cannot define a timeframe. Some the next day, some never - but never is very rare. So in addition to the other issues, there's blindness on one side. I did have him checked for head trauma from his past - no evidence. According to the doctor, a dog would have to simply be knocked completely stupid and potentially killed for a lens to come loose due to impact or head trauma. I had him checked because he stepped through an open set of concrete stairs and whacked his face on the step just prior to the lense coming loose. No cuts or bleeding, but in hindsight, I remembered he had done that prior to the luxation. If the other DOES go, we will opt for the micro-surgery (another $5K) to preserve sight in the remaining good eye. The doc says dogs adapt with one good eye and function 100% normally (with the exception of the occasional wall he bumps into on that side). Having weighed all the options (drops, eye removal and the micro surgery), we, along with the doctor, decided, presently, the drops were the way to go. I also didn't think he would adjust too well to the required 6 weeks in an Elizabethan Collar. If you don't have VPI Pet Insurance, I highly recommend it. It cuts the surgeries by around 40% and it's been well worth it for Tucker. It also pays for a considerable amount of his drugs and the office visits to the specialists and regular vet visits we've endured this (and other) year(s).
Some of this is personal preference, some are assumptions. I'd like to think I've done the best for him that I could have given our circumstances. Considering all that we have endured this year (behaviorist kill diagnoses, lens luxation, integration of a nutcase drunk into our home and a move), I think he's done quite well. The move, especially, went as slick as it could have possibly gone. He's adapted almost immediately. He's only tried to REALLY bite 3 people since the muzzle went on and that was….geeze...March or so? One was in the past 2 weeks and I don't really count it because it was a locksmith. Who doesn't want to bite a locksmith???
The main difference now is that he quickly realizes he can't do any damage and life goes on whether he's tried to bite someone or not. While he used to shake and rattle for a while after the 'incidents', he now just skulks away and ignores the situation.
As for abuse, we are assuming. According to the previous owner, there were just two of them. They had a limited social life and did not have many guests into their home. Therefore, I imagine Tucker bonded with them both. When wife got pregnant, the bond shifted from wife and 'bun in the oven', leaving hubby out of the picture. Tucker became aggressive toward the husband in defense of the wife and unborn child in her belly. All incidents they reported to me after I realized the situation I was in once I adopted him, and incidents occurred on my end, appeared to be in defense of the wife and unborn child. The main reasons we assume abuse was that he was rehomed 4 times in his first 6 months of life and came to the family before me with the broken tail. The bone protrudes from the end of the fur/skin. It's bare bone there. Indicative (based on what I've read, observed myself from flinging squirrels by their tails as an incorrigable teenager and upon observation from several veterinarians) of a pull-off rather than a cut (like from a door or crate shut on it). Something that occurred to me as I read responses last night is something new to me. It never dawned on me that there could be nerve damage in his tail and rear-end that could be causing him pain. Combine that with the fact that I have only seen him wag his tail about 3 times in 4 years might mean something I've thus far missed. However, I can touch his tail and he doesn't appear to react which is why this has never, until now, occurred to me before. I have even wagged it for him with my fingers. He pretty much reacted like I would think any other dog would. He looks over his shoulder and snorts at me and, if he could talk, I would imagine he would be saying something like, "Dude....WTF?"
Tucker will not be allowed to hurt anyone ever again. He will also, as long as I have a say in it, be able to live the rest of his life.
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Thanks for the udate, Tucker's dad! I am glad to hear that you are sticking with him. Good work
Sometimes taking away the bite, makes the dog relax, because he doesn't feel like he can or must control the situation. It also may interrupt the chain of emotions that leads to him losing control. -
Thanks for the update, i'm glad you are copeing. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to for their pets.
Hats off to you, it can't be easy. -
Have to agree, sounds like he truly had a rough time. Bless his and your heart.
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Poor Tucker, having had so many homes in such a short while - and well done for looking after him so well.
It seems you can all (including Tucker) live with the muzzle so what would be the point of filing/removing teeth - it seems barbaric to me.
Ble
ss you for doing the best you can for him. -
Most pull or file the teeth so the dog can lick, groom and do other normal dog things without a muzzle on… or when the dog is likely to bite ANYONE if it's off so there is no safe time, or if it hates the muzzle, starts getting skin irritation, etc.
Sorry Patty, but calling it barbaric.. I do hope you realize many would consider the muzzle barbaric or animal refuges or ANYTHING not "normal." It is a personal call and I don't consider the people who do it barbaric. They make choices that they feel is best for their dog and situation and I respect that as much as I would Tucker's mom or the person who immediately euthanized.
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Believe it or not, Tucker grooms through the muzzle now - when he gets the grooming urge late at night. However, I get home from work prior to my wife and the crazy woman is usually passed out drunk. We've gated her room off (crazy's), so after I feed, I typically leave it off for a bit. He normally does two things…he pleasures himself and then he grooms...and in that order. :rolleyes:
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Tucker, I am not able to understand what your saying. Pleasures himself and grooms?
Are you just talking about licking Or something else? Why is this b wearing a muzzle? -
Just found this thead and thought about my "Thunder",who is now passed on 7 years ago.
He had seizure related aggression.
I used a muzzle on him for years to keep me and others safe. And, he reacted in much the same way. He would ask to have it put back on.
He was good 99.99% of the time but would for no reason "go off" at times. He bit me quite badly several times,but I loved him dearly and he was my "soul mate" "heart dog".
He was on prozac for a year and a half which worked for him but was in the end his downfall. It damaged his liver and he died of multi system breakdown.Everything failed,liver,kidneys,etc.
It's been 7 years and I still cry,I will never get over it.KDL
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Tucker, I am not able to understand what your saying. Pleasures himself and grooms?
Are you just talking about licking Or something else? Why is this b wearing a muzzle?The dog wanks. And then he grooms. Two different things.
As for the muzzle and reasons why he is wearing it, you involved in the beginning of this thread. Perhaps if you went back to the first couple of pages, it would jog your memory.
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Sorry about your dog KDL. However, I have found no studies indicating that prozac is responsible for liver or organ failure. Did your veterinarian tell you that? Prozac is safe for people with liver disease (although dose may need adjusting due to decreased processing). Unless your dog was highly allergic to the drug, such systemic issues are not likely to be prozac related. And that kind of allergic reaction would have been obvious and prevented the use long before such organ damage would occur. I really do not want probable misinformation (or undocumented very rare occurrence) to scare off people from a legitimate helpful medication.
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Hate to disagree with you but, my vet of over 30 years said that that was the cause.
A human drug,an adult dose for a human 10mg. and the length of time he was on it,did him in.
What might be safe for a human,is not safe for a dog. -
Can you ask your vet to provide research on it? If it really is dangerous, I'd like to see evidence.
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DebraDownSouth - I guess we have to agree to disagree about teeth removal to solve aggression problems but I do respect what you say.
Just reviewed this posting and seen the posting about Prozac. Is it totally harmless? Isn't it possible that giving this Basenji a human dose (which surely would be an overdose?) over an extended period could result in liver and other organ failure whatever the drug?
I'm interested in your response.
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Prozac, with the name Reconcile is approved for safe use in dogs, and comes in 16 and 32 mg, so 10 mg would not be an overdose at all.
2 of my dogs took prozac 10 mg for 3 years and one year. No liver damage or health problems. They are 6 and 10 respectively. -
Let me clearn things up about Thunder and the prozac he was prescribed.
Thunder was a crack puppy,what do I mean by that? It's a long story.Let's just say he was exposed to crack cocaine in his moms womb.
He suffered brain damage as well as damage to his other organs.
This wasn't known until his death.
The prozac did contribute to his death because he was compromized.
I went though much the same things that Tuckers' owner.
I didn't want to euthanize Thunder. I loved him and did everything in my power to make him safe and me safe.
He lived 8 years ,the most blessed years of my life. He was a great dog and I will never forget him.
I need to stop now because it is really to painful for me to talk about. -
Thunder was a crack puppy,what do I mean by that? It's a long story.Let's just say he was exposed to crack cocaine in his moms womb.
He suffered brain damage as well as damage to his other organs.
This wasn't known until his death.
The prozac did contribute to his death because he was compromized.I am so sorry. That is horrible.
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Let me clearn things up about Thunder and the prozac he was prescribed.
Let's just say he was exposed to crack cocaine in his moms womb.
He suffered brain damage as well as damage to his other organs.
This wasn't known until his death.I am so sorry for your loss, and I don't believe there is anyone who doesn't know you did all you could.
But a necropsy would show damage, not that prozac did it. Before you attributed all the damage to prozac, now to crack exposure? I just don't want anyone reading your post to not use prozac based on your claims. If your vet has one drop of proof prozac (or crack) did it, your vet should have submitted the claim to the company. Period. Because right now massive amt of dogs and humans have used the drug and not one case of organ damage shows as reported. In fact, I don't know how your vet KNOWS it had anything to do with crack either… even exposed, the issues could be genetic, viral or other things. Drug dealers and users, crack makers... many have dogs around the drugs. I can find any reports that it causes organ damage. So while it seems a plausible theory, sounds like your vet gave it as facts.
I would be more than happy to get the drug company number for you for your vet to contact them. But please be careful about saying a drug did such devastation without proof. Prozac has helped many animals stay alive, be retrained, live without demons that would have meant euthanasia.
Patty, on the teeth... let me be real clear. Before I would pull a dog's teeth OR make it live in a muzzle, I'd put it down. But I also support people who make those choices, though not ones I would do. We all know what we can and will live with. I don't think either is abusive to the dog. My concern is having a dog for which those measures have to be taken. Yet, I loved and helped care for a pretty scary wolf hybrid who had to be kenneled (indoor/outdoor run, not a crate) til he died. He wasn't mine, but I wouldn't have put him down so there you go. We don't know til we have been the ones calling the shots. And people with nasty little Lhasa's (LOL I fostered one the rescue nicknamed Hannibella Lecture).. well you can't muzzle them, lol. Anyway, we don't have to agree.
But I do know the multitude of toothless dogs living happy lives would not like to be put down. I have fostered a few who were removed from puppymills. Happy dogs, no teeth. And bless the rescues who find them homes. I honestly am worried Arwen may end up among the toothless.
Right now am contemplating a new shot for gum bacteria even though my vet and my old research vet say wait a couple of years til it has been out longer. -
nkjvcjs - Thank you for the info on Prozac. I must say that I hadn't even realised until the posting that Prozac in any form was given to dogs! I don't know if thats common over here.
Rocky1 -Thunder's story is tragic but at least he had a good life with you.
DebraDown South - agreed - until you actually have the personal experience you never know what you may do. I've had dogs who had to have teeth removed for disease purposes but never actually had to decide to have healthy teeth remved so I really shouldn't have made the comment that I did.
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It took a long time for me to come to terms with muzzling Tucker. But I imagine if you could actually witness how he wears it and how he'll come right to me when I call him, muzzle in hand, and shows no 'basenji disgust' as I strap it on him. I feel that he knows it's his alternative to rehoming or the needle. Tucker gets treats through the muzzle all the time. High value stuff - it's also how I trained him to wear it. I spent three weeks muzzle training him properly and I imagine that is part of the reason he wears it without issue.
Tucker was fed lots and lots of treats out of the muzzle. He had to stick his nose into it to get the treats. This lasted a solid week. Followed by short periods of strapping it on him. This led to leaving it on and feeding him high value treats through the muzzle. Honestly, he acts like it's no different than a collar. And it's more comfortable, I suspect, for him because I keep it very clean and maintain it (removing any plastic burrs that might pop up on it when he scratches). If he does develop a plastic allergy, I'll deal with that when it happens. So far it's been a bit over 6 months and he shows no signs of reacting.
He does get walks, nights, etc without it. My wife is out of town this week so Tucker gets to sleep in the bed with me muzzle free. The crazy woman is gated in her part of the house with a baby gate - as long as she is in her part of the house and I am the only one home, Tucker is muzzle free. (And I don't want to give the impression the crazy aunt is locked out of the main part of the house, she just keeps to herself and her 'stuff' a lot of the day).
At this point, I'd simply prefer to not medicate my dog on top of everything else he's been through. The bond this dog and I have is, simply stated, unexplainable. He's really not an overly 'happy dog' for whatever reason, he doesn't wag his tail…ever. (Although I did get him to wag it a few days ago while wrestling and playing chase around the house).
I think he's just been though too much and I can't think of any situation that would make his life any more palatable that the one he now has with our family. And, speaking of family, my in-laws, parents and siblings all support my cause. They love Tucker just as much as I do - so he's got a rather large support group rooting for our success.I know many people experience joy like I feel when I come home after work each day and he bolts to me and jumps up to get the showering of love and praise that I give him every day. When I leave, he's there in the wondow watching me go. When I come home, he's back there waiting for the moment I come in the door. When I fiddle on the computer, he's there in his bed beside me. When I sleep at night, he's there on the floor in his bed beside me (until he sneaks into the bed at night and sleeps against my back). When I watch a movie with my wife, he's there on the sofa, sleeping against me. I'm sure many would agree that there is simply something about 'special needs' that tends to pull at the heart strings more than anything else. We have two 'special needs' dogs, not to mention the special needs woman who now lives with us...
