Need Home for Basenji

[TuckerVA]

Believe it or not, Tucker grooms through the muzzle now - when he gets the grooming urge late at night. However, I get home from work prior to my wife and the crazy woman is usually passed out drunk. We've gated her room off (crazy's), so after I feed, I typically leave it off for a bit. He normally does two things…he pleasures himself and then he grooms...and in that order. :rolleyes:

[sharronhurlbut]

Tucker, I am not able to understand what your saying. Pleasures himself and grooms?
Are you just talking about licking Or something else? Why is this b wearing a muzzle?

[Rocky1]

Just found this thead and thought about my "Thunder",who is now passed on 7 years ago.
He had seizure related aggression.
I used a muzzle on him for years to keep me and others safe. And, he reacted in much the same way. He would ask to have it put back on.
He was good 99.99% of the time but would for no reason "go off" at times. He bit me quite badly several times,but I loved him dearly and he was my "soul mate" "heart dog".
He was on prozac for a year and a half which worked for him but was in the end his downfall. It damaged his liver and he died of multi system breakdown.Everything failed,liver,kidneys,etc.
It's been 7 years and I still cry,I will never get over it.

KDL

[TuckerVA]

@sharronhurlbut:

Tucker, I am not able to understand what your saying. Pleasures himself and grooms?
Are you just talking about licking Or something else? Why is this b wearing a muzzle?

The dog wanks. And then he grooms. Two different things.

As for the muzzle and reasons why he is wearing it, you involved in the beginning of this thread. Perhaps if you went back to the first couple of pages, it would jog your memory.

[DebraDownSouth]

Sorry about your dog KDL. However, I have found no studies indicating that prozac is responsible for liver or organ failure. Did your veterinarian tell you that? Prozac is safe for people with liver disease (although dose may need adjusting due to decreased processing). Unless your dog was highly allergic to the drug, such systemic issues are not likely to be prozac related. And that kind of allergic reaction would have been obvious and prevented the use long before such organ damage would occur. I really do not want probable misinformation (or undocumented very rare occurrence) to scare off people from a legitimate helpful medication.

[Rocky1]

Hate to disagree with you but, my vet of over 30 years said that that was the cause.
A human drug,an adult dose for a human 10mg. and the length of time he was on it,did him in.
What might be safe for a human,is not safe for a dog.

[DebraDownSouth]

Can you ask your vet to provide research on it? If it really is dangerous, I'd like to see evidence.

[Patty]

DebraDownSouth - I guess we have to agree to disagree about teeth removal to solve aggression problems but I do respect what you say.

Just reviewed this posting and seen the posting about Prozac. Is it totally harmless? Isn't it possible that giving this Basenji a human dose (which surely would be an overdose?) over an extended period could result in liver and other organ failure whatever the drug?

I'm interested in your response.

[nkjvcjs]

Prozac, with the name Reconcile is approved for safe use in dogs, and comes in 16 and 32 mg, so 10 mg would not be an overdose at all.
2 of my dogs took prozac 10 mg for 3 years and one year. No liver damage or health problems. They are 6 and 10 respectively.

[Rocky1]

Let me clearn things up about Thunder and the prozac he was prescribed.

Thunder was a crack puppy,what do I mean by that? It's a long story.Let's just say he was exposed to crack cocaine in his moms womb.
He suffered brain damage as well as damage to his other organs.
This wasn't known until his death.
The prozac did contribute to his death because he was compromized.
I went though much the same things that Tuckers' owner.
I didn't want to euthanize Thunder. I loved him and did everything in my power to make him safe and me safe.
He lived 8 years ,the most blessed years of my life. He was a great dog and I will never forget him.
I need to stop now because it is really to painful for me to talk about.

[nkjvcjs]

@Rocky1:

Thunder was a crack puppy,what do I mean by that? It's a long story.Let's just say he was exposed to crack cocaine in his moms womb.
He suffered brain damage as well as damage to his other organs.
This wasn't known until his death.
The prozac did contribute to his death because he was compromized.

I am so sorry. That is horrible.

[DebraDownSouth]

@Rocky1:

Let me clearn things up about Thunder and the prozac he was prescribed.

Let's just say he was exposed to crack cocaine in his moms womb.
He suffered brain damage as well as damage to his other organs.
This wasn't known until his death.

I am so sorry for your loss, and I don't believe there is anyone who doesn't know you did all you could.

But a necropsy would show damage, not that prozac did it. Before you attributed all the damage to prozac, now to crack exposure? I just don't want anyone reading your post to not use prozac based on your claims. If your vet has one drop of proof prozac (or crack) did it, your vet should have submitted the claim to the company. Period. Because right now massive amt of dogs and humans have used the drug and not one case of organ damage shows as reported. In fact, I don't know how your vet KNOWS it had anything to do with crack either… even exposed, the issues could be genetic, viral or other things. Drug dealers and users, crack makers... many have dogs around the drugs. I can find any reports that it causes organ damage. So while it seems a plausible theory, sounds like your vet gave it as facts.

I would be more than happy to get the drug company number for you for your vet to contact them. But please be careful about saying a drug did such devastation without proof. Prozac has helped many animals stay alive, be retrained, live without demons that would have meant euthanasia.

Patty, on the teeth... let me be real clear. Before I would pull a dog's teeth OR make it live in a muzzle, I'd put it down. But I also support people who make those choices, though not ones I would do. We all know what we can and will live with. I don't think either is abusive to the dog. My concern is having a dog for which those measures have to be taken. Yet, I loved and helped care for a pretty scary wolf hybrid who had to be kenneled (indoor/outdoor run, not a crate) til he died. He wasn't mine, but I wouldn't have put him down so there you go. We don't know til we have been the ones calling the shots. And people with nasty little Lhasa's (LOL I fostered one the rescue nicknamed Hannibella Lecture).. well you can't muzzle them, lol. Anyway, we don't have to agree.

But I do know the multitude of toothless dogs living happy lives would not like to be put down. I have fostered a few who were removed from puppymills. Happy dogs, no teeth. And bless the rescues who find them homes. I honestly am worried Arwen may end up among the toothless. Right now am contemplating a new shot for gum bacteria even though my vet and my old research vet say wait a couple of years til it has been out longer.

[Patty]

nkjvcjs - Thank you for the info on Prozac. I must say that I hadn't even realised until the posting that Prozac in any form was given to dogs! I don't know if thats common over here.

Rocky1 -Thunder's story is tragic but at least he had a good life with you.

DebraDown South - agreed - until you actually have the personal experience you never know what you may do. I've had dogs who had to have teeth removed for disease purposes but never actually had to decide to have healthy teeth remved so I really shouldn't have made the comment that I did.

[TuckerVA]

It took a long time for me to come to terms with muzzling Tucker. But I imagine if you could actually witness how he wears it and how he'll come right to me when I call him, muzzle in hand, and shows no 'basenji disgust' as I strap it on him. I feel that he knows it's his alternative to rehoming or the needle. Tucker gets treats through the muzzle all the time. High value stuff - it's also how I trained him to wear it. I spent three weeks muzzle training him properly and I imagine that is part of the reason he wears it without issue.

Tucker was fed lots and lots of treats out of the muzzle. He had to stick his nose into it to get the treats. This lasted a solid week. Followed by short periods of strapping it on him. This led to leaving it on and feeding him high value treats through the muzzle. Honestly, he acts like it's no different than a collar. And it's more comfortable, I suspect, for him because I keep it very clean and maintain it (removing any plastic burrs that might pop up on it when he scratches). If he does develop a plastic allergy, I'll deal with that when it happens. So far it's been a bit over 6 months and he shows no signs of reacting.

He does get walks, nights, etc without it. My wife is out of town this week so Tucker gets to sleep in the bed with me muzzle free. The crazy woman is gated in her part of the house with a baby gate - as long as she is in her part of the house and I am the only one home, Tucker is muzzle free. (And I don't want to give the impression the crazy aunt is locked out of the main part of the house, she just keeps to herself and her 'stuff' a lot of the day).

At this point, I'd simply prefer to not medicate my dog on top of everything else he's been through. The bond this dog and I have is, simply stated, unexplainable. He's really not an overly 'happy dog' for whatever reason, he doesn't wag his tail…ever. (Although I did get him to wag it a few days ago while wrestling and playing chase around the house). I think he's just been though too much and I can't think of any situation that would make his life any more palatable that the one he now has with our family. And, speaking of family, my in-laws, parents and siblings all support my cause. They love Tucker just as much as I do - so he's got a rather large support group rooting for our success.

I know many people experience joy like I feel when I come home after work each day and he bolts to me and jumps up to get the showering of love and praise that I give him every day. When I leave, he's there in the wondow watching me go. When I come home, he's back there waiting for the moment I come in the door. When I fiddle on the computer, he's there in his bed beside me. When I sleep at night, he's there on the floor in his bed beside me (until he sneaks into the bed at night and sleeps against my back). When I watch a movie with my wife, he's there on the sofa, sleeping against me. I'm sure many would agree that there is simply something about 'special needs' that tends to pull at the heart strings more than anything else. We have two 'special needs' dogs, not to mention the special needs woman who now lives with us...

[Kipawa]

Lots of "agree to disagree" on this thread - that's what makes a forum.

TuckerVA - your last post is one that shows much love for your dog. What works for others doesn't always work for another dog. But IMO, you have found a humane way to work with your dog. If he is giving you that much love back, then he is accepting that he is in a place in his life where he must wear a muzzle. It's that, or else get moved again or euthanized.

The love the both of you share tells me you both have accepted what must be in order for the two of you to be on this earth together and enjoy each others' love.

[DebraDownSouth]

I don't think you have to explain to anyone. The love and dedication you have done for this dog is inspiring.

[Patty M]

I agree with Debbie (err, Debra, lol :))….. You have stood by Tucker's side so unconditionally! It must be nice to find a "normal" for this b.... even with the crazy aunt beyond the baby gate, lol. I, too, am proud of you for your perseverance!

[nomrbddgs]

I have to say, you have done what you needed to do. Period. The crazy aunt, is in effect, wearing a muzzle herself as she is behind a baby gate. Just because Tucker is wearing a visible muzzle, that, to me, is no different than having the crazy aunt behind a gate. Right now, it works for you and your household. Good for you. You have to do what is right for you at this moment in time. Good luck in the future.

[TuckerVA]

Ahh, there is a difference though… The crazy aunt is able to open her gate and is allowed unlimited access through it - it's just a barrier to lessen the exposure between her and Tucker since she can't follow the rules and is too far gone to actually remember what we ask of her from one day to the next... The muzzle Tucker wears, however, must be removed by me.

We have actually caught her on more than one occasion removing the muzzle, which is a problem we really haven't solved yet. It just irks me that I have to keep finding ways to protect her from Tucker when it's from herself that she needs protection from. She's very self destructive. We're looking into a sitter for her or a state supported program to put her into. She is spiraling downhill at an alarming rate... We have brought her into our home after she destroyed hers and rendered it unlivable by the county, we feed her and provide her with a place to live. We care for her like noone ever has. We are still trying to settle her affairs in the wake of her husband's death over 2 years ago (that sat unsettled due to her incompetance)...
It's been prior to February since I've actually come home from work not thinking the worse has happened...that she's removed the muzzle and got bitten for it or that she's left another cigarette burning in her bedroom and another house has burned from it... I come home every day with a pit in my stomach, worrying that today will be the day that Tucker has to be sent away because she can't follow the rules and just leave him be.

[nomrbddgs]

Do you have elder care down there? We have a sort of day care up here for seniors, depending on where you live, you have can supported care.