New basenji foster mom

[westcoastflea1]

hi all

thanks for replying so quickly
are we in the right forum for this discussion?

im hoping that sebastians issue might be that he was lost and in a shelter for a month and is now doing the velcro dog thing and he will get better, but of course its hard to say and since hes up for adoption it seems like it would be good to work this all out

im glad that he leaves the dog park with other dogs and people it means that he is not attached to me so much as the idea of just being with others, which is why im hopeful that being in a home with other basenjis might be just what he needs when he is adopted.
unfortunately i have no way to find this out i either need to import some to my home for a week or two or import him somewhere with basenjis and see if he is fine when left alone with the other dogs:)

sebastian is pretty much adamant about sleeping with me, he came to me with tapeworms and one night they were emerging with great rapidity in my bed and i couldnt get him out!!
i ended up wrapping him like a burrito to try to keep them off of me while i tried to sleep
im alright with him growling since hes unable to actually tell me "hey im busy here leave me alone" he hasnt snapped at me, so as long as it doesnt escalate i dont think ill worry too much, maya never growled at me in 10 years so it does startle me a bit when he does it.
im working on letting him know verbally that i really need him to stop cleaning, i find that rubbing his forehead and nose gently will sometimes relax him and put him to sleep when hes licking. right now when i cant take it anymore i put part of the blanket over the area hes licking then anchor it with my foot til he gives up and falls asleep.
hes getting alot of exercise on the days i havent gotten much sleep we go to the dog park for hours since im basically useless for anything but just sitting

im wondering if it is a general anxiety thing, he was on metacam for a few days for pain and seemed much calmer when he was taking it (not sure if it does calm them as well as taking away pain, might have been wishful thinking)
he's due for xrays next monday maybe i should bring up antianxiety meds with brat then talk to the vet? maybe if he takes them and is less anxious he might learn some new behaviors? maybe able to stop taking them after a while?

i have been taking him to the vet on brackett st.

the day i took him there i saw a basenji and didnt even recognize it as a basenji, strangest one ive seen, looked exactly like a brindle shiba inu, are basenjis supposed to look like that? really thick fur, very very broad face, really short legs with a stocky body if the girls behind the desk hadnt pointed it out as a basenji i never would have known
i looked up the kennel name on the web and found the page had expired, was curious to see if all this kennels basenjis looked like this
so thanks for the comments advice etc keep them coming
we are off for a walk, then the dog park

[thunderbird8588]

It did cross my mind to suggest some sort of medication to help him in the short term, like you say it may break the pattern of behaviours so that he can learn some new ones.
Hopefully your vet will be able to advise, you won't be able to cope well if you don't get some sleep.

[Patty]

It sounds to me as though your boy has several anxiety issues that you might need professional help to sort out. I'm sure there are those on this forum who can recommend a good behaviourist to you - one who has experience of Basenjis perhaps?

Licking becomes a habit which can be hard to break but not ompossible.

[nomrbddgs]

He may also have OCD. You are still in the 'honeymoon' period as well. So things may still change with him over the next while.

[sharronhurlbut]

Glad you found the forum. Have you posted your b's issues to the BRAT-Chat list.
Many folks have had b's with these behaviors, and they might be able to give you a
step by step approch to behavior issues.
I would suggest you ignore him when he is velcor b. If he goes and lays down, or relaxes at all, give him praise. No "poor baby" voice with this boy..everything is ok, all upbeat tones. He is taking his clues from you. If you leave to say, go check the mail, when you come back, ignore him. Don't greet him until he settles down and starts to relax.
Those are my short tips.
Hugs for being a dedicated rescue person. We sure need you and you know the b's do!

[westcoastflea1]

hi
thanks for all the replies
didnt know brat had a chat list so will look into that
i dont actually let sebastian know im leaving at all so no verbal cues are being given,
i take him to the dog park almost daily for hours and the changes in his behavior are happening daily, he seems much more confident and is letting me leave the room for at least 3 or 4 minutes now before he comes to look for me which is a huge improvement, the dog park seems to be giving him confidence in himself. everyone there comments on the changes in his behavior and looks from just a week and a half ago so maybe we are on the right track thanks again for all the advice and encouragement

[dcmclcm4]

How old is Sebastian?

[westcoastflea1]

the information that i have is that sebastian is 8 years old

[crystalncody]

Hi Heather. Welcome to the forum!
I sympathize with you about the anxiety. It's so stressful.

Cody came to live with me last year. He was 3 years old. Like you, I don't know a lot about his past. What I know by the state that I picked him up in and from what I've experienced with him over the last year, he was neglected physically and emotionally. He has had lots of anxiety issues, many of which we are still working on.

First off, he doesn't like to be alone at all. If I left him uncrated, he destroyed my apartment, and when I crated him, he would scream for hours. One of the things I've done is that I have a few old t-shirts that I rotate in his crate. I'll sleep in one and then I put it in his crate so he has something that smells like me when I leave. I used to do the same thing with an old sheet: sleep on it, then put it in his kennel, and wash it every few days. It was his, so he could shred it if he wanted, but he finally shredded it to the point I had to throw it away. Having another dog around helped so much. When we were staying with my parents, they have a dog, and once they got used to each other I was able to leave Cody uncrated as long as Moe was with him. No anxiety, no destruction. I crate Cody now in our new home because he doesn't get along with the resident chihuahua, and he does fine because his dachshund girlfriend will stay in the room with him to keep him company (outside the crate). When I'm home, he still follows me from room to room, but we also just moved last month, so I think once he gets used to the house, he will settle down. It took him about 2 months to get comfortable last time.

Besides crate anxiety and separation anxiety, he's still an anxious boy. Noises scare him, other dogs' barking scare him, vibrations, etc. Lots of things set him off, and he will pace and whine for hours. Once he was so scared by low-flying helicopters that he jumped and cleared our fence. This kind of anxiety we are still working on. One of the things that has helped is when he first starts to get worked up, I'll give him a massage. I start with his cheeks, up to his ears, his neck, front legs, and so on. It's a slow process, but it works for Cody. The other thing, and probably one of the best mini-investments I made, is DAP by Comfort Zone. I got the infuser, and I really can tell a difference in him. I was reluctant to buy it because of the price and I was worried it wouldn't work, but it was worth it. He still has anxiety issues, but they aren't as bad as they were 6 months ago.

As for playing, just give him time. I had Cody for about 4 or 5 months before he learned what play was. He knew how to chase me and how to destroy/defluff toys, but he didn't understand play. Finally one night he initiated a game of tug-o-war with me. I was so excited that I was in tears.

If you've only had him for a little less than 2 weeks, everything still new to him. He probably still needs a lot of reassurance.

I hope that helps though.
Good luck!

[curlytails]

Okay, I made the mistake of reading about the tapeworms during dinner. The description of the "Basenji burrito" was quite amusing though…

I agree that it's going to take some time, but just because he has separation anxiety now, two weeks after going through some pretty MAJOR life changes to be with you, doesn't mean he's going to be just as anxious two months from now. If you're seeing improvement of even minutes within days, just imagine what you'll see even further down the road.

After a HUGE international and cross-continental move, my Shiba had some pretty bad separation anxiety. He wasn't destructive, but he was howling, and since we lived right next door to the landlord, this was a problem that we had to nip in the bud...

We trained him by repeatedly leaving the house and coming back, going through these drills for thirty minutes to two hours a day. Starting small, exiting the door for 30 seconds (giving a verbal cue), then coming right back. Then building up to a minute, two, five, etc.

We figured we had the problem resolved when we were able to leave the house for an hour. We'd give a verbal cue that we were leaving, let him hear us go down the steps outside the apartment, and then quietly sit down on the stairwell and read/do whatever. That way, we were within earshot in case he started howling, so we'd know.

One thing we made sure to do was not to return while he was howling. As far as I could tell, it wasn't continuous. It'd come in bursts, going for a couple minutes at a time, pause, then a couple more minutes. I do have to admit that there was one time early on when he started howling and did NOT seem inclined to stop. What I did then was I lurked outside the door while my partner tromped down the stairwell... when he started howling, I quickly threw open the door, startling him, told him NO (he was sitting right there), and quickly closed the door again. It actually worked! He remained quiet for five whole minutes after that... Now, I'm not sure if that was because I gave away that I was just outside the door. But this correction really did make the rest of our exercises much easier, and I didn't have to "surprise" him like that again.

After we settled into a routine, things became easier as well. For us, it WAS an issue of our dog being uncertain not just about our absence but also his new environment, so it might be similar to Sebastian's case. If your goal is to help him become more self-sufficient, a regimen like this might work. Maybe you could crate or pen him in one room while you do something in another room for a while, instead of going in/out of the house.

...

Another thing I've recently been using, for another issue (OCD licking of paws, but also related to anxiety) is anti-anxiety drops. Many rescuers sing the praises of Rescue Remedy. Ingredients: impatiens, star of bethlehem, cherry plum, rock rose, clematis. I'm using a similar product with different ingredients, Homeopet Anxiety drops. Ingredients: Chamomilia, Valeriana, Borax (which I understand is alarming to see on a list of ingredients, but it's supposed to be okay here?), Cypripedium Pub., Ignatia A., Colch. Verat. A. Both seem kind of pricey for the tiny little vial that you get ($10-$15 for 10 to 20 mL), but since you're only supposed to be using drops at a time, it goes a long way. You mentioned that your budget for over-the-counter medications is limited, but I just wanted to give you some options.

[Arwen]

Borax (http://www.naturopathydigest.com/nutrition_herbs/herbs/borax.php) is actually used in Traditional Chinese Medicine. It can be taken internally in moderation.

Rescue Remedy is a homeopathic that I've used on myself as well as multiple animals including birds. I love the stuff.

[westcoastflea1]

well i took sebastian to my daughters this afternoon to meet winston who was the family japanese chin til my daughter moved out and took him with her. winston loved maya my basenji but is absolutely crazed when it comes to other dogs. if on lead and he sees another dog he will go mad and bite anything he comes into contact with which includes whoever is walking him, fear based aggression i believe,
after some absolute madness winston and sebastian ended up sitting on the couch chewing bones together. so the next plan is to
get them together more often and see if sebastians anxiety can be cured by simply having a companion dog in the house. i have to say though that sebastian does seem to be improving daily so maybe the whole anxiety/ licking thing is from the month in the shelter and will go away after a few more weeks
i appreciate all the ideas and support, being home all the time with sebastian next to me 24/7 has been a bit difficult and this forum has helped to make it a little easier,
so thanks to all!

[dcmclcm4]

Since he is older, I would have a complete thyroid test done, not just a t4 and an eye exam done by an opthalmologist. Could he be having pain from arthritis, a previous injury, etc.?

What kind of crate are you using? Some dogs prefer a larger wire one which is more open while others prefer the travel kind-plastic. You may have to put him on Clomicalm or similar medication but it must be used in conjunction with therapy/training.

He may have been attacked when he was a stray so he may not like certain dogs in regards to color, size, sex, etc.

I have found that Basenjis do not do well in shelters or places where there are a lot of barking dogs.

Jennifer

[westcoastflea1]

yes ive noticed sebastian doesnt seem to like it when dogs bark
he gets this really offended look on his face

sebastian has a plastic crate that was given to us by someone from brat to use, he doesnt like it and im wondering if there really is a need to train him to it since he is not at all destructive even when left alone
all the tests sebastian has are done because brat requests it and are paid for by brat but thank you for the input.
sebastian went to an outdoor cafe last night and behaved like a perfect gentleman for several hours while i had dinner with a friend, i never thought i could do that with a basenji !!
the cleaning seems to have eased up now to a normal level which is wonderful, now we just have the separation anxiety to deal with.
im working on getting a companion dog here at the house to see if that will help sebastian stay calm when i leave.
it will be hard to let sebastian go, i dont flatter myself that im the only person he will be happy with, he likes everybody, i just worry that the family who takes him might not treat him the way he should be treated, im sure this is a worry that all fosters have when one of their basenjis goes out into the world,
anyone here foster??
do you have the same concerns?
i absolutely want to help out basenjis in need of rescue and if i keep sebastian i wont be able to do that, but i also never thought id meet a basenji who has NONE of the normal basenji issues ie: bolting out the door, escaping from the yard, being destructive, counter surfing, getting into the garbage, bathroom and kitchen, sebastian understands no and actually obeys!!
to think that i could go eat outside and have a basenji who would be content to sit with me for hours while i ate and visited is beyond belief, i almost feel like i have a one in a million dog here and wonder if im a fool for even considering giving him up ??
i have a lot of pressure from a lot of people to keep sebastian which doesnt make it any easier
im sure in the end i will give him up to a good adoptive family but it will be hard
so again thanks for the input and comments, as you can probably understand not being able to go places without sebastian does tend to make you feel a little isolated, kind of like a mom with a newborn, all conversation revolves around sebastian its really rather pathetic

[Patty]

I'm so glad that you are making such progress with Sebastian. He has so many positive attributes I'm sure he'll make a great 'forever' Basenji. Well done for your perseverance, I'm sure Sebastian will benefit in the long run.

[DebraDownSouth]

@thunderbird8588:

It did cross my mind to suggest some sort of medication to help him in the short term, like you say it may break the pattern of behaviours so that he can learn some new ones.
Hopefully your vet will be able to advise, you won't be able to cope well if you don't get some sleep.

So much good advice. And I agree, if a little meds help to change the behaviors, don't hesitate to try some.

The crate also is a way to work on the anxiety. Feed or give a treat, leave the room for 2 mins, 3 mins, 5 mins, extend to 10 etc. A kong smeared with a little peanut butter or cream cheese (I like to freeze them so you have a good 15 mins window of activity).

@westcoastflea1:

yes ive noticed sebastian doesnt seem to like it when dogs bark he gets this really offended look on his face

sebastian has a plastic crate that was given to us by someone from brat to use, he doesnt like it and im wondering if there really is a need to train him to it since he is not at all destructive even when left alone

it will be hard to let sebastian go, i dont flatter myself that im the only person he will be happy with, he likes everybody, i just worry that the family who takes him might not treat him the way he should be treated, im sure this is a worry that all fosters have when one of their basenjis goes out into the world,
anyone here foster??

He really does need crate training. Some time he may be traveling, in a hotel that requires it, or sick or boarded. Learning it from you will make those strange times not horrific because he'll already be used to crates.

For the rest, wow, you are incredible. And yes, most foster homes worry. I find fostering for BRAT very hard. Most dogs I foster and rehab I am in total control. With BRAT, I have to trust them. I took a puppy to TN and I really thought.. I won't let them have her if I don't feel right. Fortunately for my relationship with Brat, I adored them. They had a web page up in days! But as you get to know the BRAT coordinators, you'll come to trust them. I always remind myself that I can only handle so many dogs… each rescue I KEEP is one less slot I have for a foster. But if your heart doesn't want to let this boy go... adopt him. It certainly sounds like you are really bonding.

[westcoastflea1]

thanks for the input about fostering, in a way i guess its good to know brat has the final say, if i have no control over it then maybe i wont worry so much? and you are so right if i keep sebastian i wont have room for anymore fosters which is the reason im doing this in the first place.
so my roommate had a dog to visit last night, very nice low key dog larger then sebastian.
sebastian ignored the dog until i got up and went into the other room, then they met, sebastian growled and the dog pretty much ignored it he just stood there, when the dog didnt back away sebastian growled a lot more and sort of snapped at the dog at which point the dog reacted just a bit then backed off.
havent seen him behave quite like this before
sebastian will meet larger dogs at the dog park with fur raised and a low growl which generally causes the other dog to back off at which point sebastian is fine, (havent met a dog yet who doesnt back off not sure what will happen if or when we do).

after this sebastian will join in with the other dogs and have fun.

he hasnt gone quite this far with the warning before and im wondering why he behaved this way? was it territorial or was the dog sending out a signal i didnt pick up on? or perhaps sebastian feels a bit more confident in the house so thought he'd be a bit of a bully?
not sure how i should handle this in the future? let sebastian know verbally that its not acceptable? let the two dogs deal with it as long as it doesnt escalate to a violent situation?
figure maybe sebastian will tolerate another dog in the house but thats about it?
so any input would be great
thanks again

[lvoss]

@westcoastflea1:

so my roommate had a dog to visit last night, very nice low key dog larger then sebastian.
sebastian ignored the dog until i got up and went into the other room, then they met, sebastian growled and the dog pretty much ignored it he just stood there, when the dog didnt back away sebastian growled a lot more and sort of snapped at the dog at which point the dog reacted just a bit then backed off.
havent seen him behave quite like this before
sebastian will meet larger dogs at the dog park with fur raised and a low growl which generally causes the other dog to back off at which point sebastian is fine, (havent met a dog yet who doesnt back off not sure what will happen if or when we do).

The dog in the paragraph above was a dog that didn't back off and you saw exactly what will happen, Sebastian will escalate his distance increasing signals to gain the distance he needs to feel comfortable.

@westcoastflea1:

he hasnt gone quite this far with the warning before and im wondering why he behaved this way? was it territorial or was the dog sending out a signal i didnt pick up on? or perhaps sebastian feels a bit more confident in the house so thought he'd be a bit of a bully?
not sure how i should handle this in the future? let sebastian know verbally that its not acceptable? let the two dogs deal with it as long as it doesnt escalate to a violent situation?
figure maybe sebastian will tolerate another dog in the house but thats about it?
so any input would be great
thanks again

Again, the difference this time was that the dog held its ground instead of giving Sebastian the distance he asked for.

Do not verbally correct him for growling. You want the growl because it is a low level warning signal that Sebastian in uncomfortable and if you correct him for growling then he escalate past the growl to the snap or bite. When he growls, if he is on leash, then back him up to create distance until he is at a distance where he doesn't feel the need to growl anymore. If he is not on a leash then call him to you so he creates distance between him and the other dog.

[westcoastflea1]

okay great i didnt say or do anything when this happened i was willing to wait for it to resolve, unless it became violent, but my roommate was a little uncomfortable so called the other dog into the other room. so although this dog did seem very low key, he wasnt heeding sebastians signals the way he should have. thanks for clarifying this for me, i really appreciate it:)

[DebraDownSouth]

I really suggest you touch bases with BRAT to get some more experienced help in YOUR HOME with him and other dogs. Had a fight broken out, you would have created a much more serious problem.

When I introduce new dogs, I often keep leashed and apart for hours, even days. I crate within sight of each other. Dogs can be ultra territorial at home. Inside the house, they know they have no where to escape. Sometimes letting dogs meet away from the house is less of an issue, in fact often is. I let them control the friendliness, but I prevent the potential fighting til it is clear they accept and want some contact.