8 month old is biting…can't get him under control

[lvoss]

@tangokor:

The biting though sometimes I think is meaningful and not just play. He will go after my arms and legs sometimes when I'm trying to get something away from him or when I'm just relaxing, no play he will bite out of the blue. I've tried the yelping but I'm really not sure how much that's helping.

Why are you taking things away from him? If you need to get something that he has, then you should be doing trading up. You offer him something of high value in exchange for the thing that he has. Having a cookie jar with something like duck jerky around for making trades works well.

Time outs are good tools and very effective in getting the point across that a behavior is inappropriate. If you do not want to use the crate for time out then have a room or ex-pen that he can be placed in for a few minutes while he calms down. Many times with young dogs they just get over stimulated and need that chance to calm down, some will even have fallen asleep before the time out is over because they were really just over tired.

[starrlamia]

@tangokor:

Annimon- Thanks for the post. I agree, I'm not terrifying him just getting him in a position to relax. I don't know what else to do sometimes and don't want to use the crate as punishment either. I had teenagers here the other day and he was getting wound up, jumping and trying to bite and I had them stand still and stop play and he soon stopped. This is much harder to do w/ my younger ones who can get afraid and run and don't want to stand still when he acts up .

The past few days with the young kids away at camp have been pretty easy, I've had more time to focus on him and more time to get him excercised which does make a big difference.

The biting though sometimes I think is meaningful and not just play. He will go after my arms and legs sometimes when I'm trying to get something away from him or when I'm just relaxing, no play he will bite out of the blue. I've tried the yelping but I'm really not sure how much that's helping.

The thing is it isnt a relaxing position for dogs, it creates anxiety and also distrust.
A much better way would be to remove him from a situation as soon as you see him getting ramped up. Choose a room or tie where you can place him for a few minutes to settle down. Note which situations he is the worst in and remove him from those situations until he has better self control.
I would start working on Doggie zen as well, to help build that self control.

http://www.dogforums.com/3-dog-training-forum/2522-doggy-zen.html

the book control unleashed would help as well.

[Patty]

I think as Malaika said that the human's yelp must have a certain pitch. Any excitement exacerbates the position. Whatever action you take it's essential that its done with calmness. It is best to calmly think through whatever action you decide to take. What you must always remember that a Basenji is not like other dogs and it's always wise if you are going to a trainer to make sure that they know Basenjis. It is almost impossible in my opinion for small children to keep excitement at bay and so makes it much more difficult as you need to train them as well!

I suggest that you carefully read through the very good advice you have been given on this forum and work out an action plan. It seems to me that it's essential that you can deal with this as it could be potentially dangerous.

As an example - in the early days in the UK some breeders tried to treat Basenjis as ordinary dogs because that's all they had experienced before - as a consequence their Basenjis became known as having aggressive temperaments whereas this was far from the truth.

Re restraint - it can work if done with love - I had a little bitch adopted from kennels who as soon as she started to get worked up I wrapped her in a 'cuddle' blanket and massaged her with Ttouch untill she relaxed. This worked perfectly and although she was 'cast out' of the kennels because they said she was so aggressive, she never showed agression to humans or other animals foir the rest of her life.

I would say that what is known as dominance theory never works on a Basenjii.

[lvoss]

@Patty:

IRe restraint - it can work if done with love - I had a little bitch adopted from kennels who as soon as she started to get worked up I wrapped her in a 'cuddle' blanket and massaged her with Ttouch untill she relaxed. This worked perfectly and although she was 'cast out' of the kennels because they said she was so aggressive, she never showed agression to humans or other animals foir the rest of her life.

This type of restraint is very different than rolling a dog over on its back. What you describe is much more like the use of a Thundershirt or Calming Cap that are used for helping with anxiety.

[tangokor]

I'm taking things away from him because he always has something he shouldn't and he's destroyed many things. The kids shoes, socks, toys, paper bags, his crate pad. So when he has these things I'm going to get them away from him not let him tear it up while I look for something else to give him. I'm trying to keep him from chewing up everything in the house!! And yes, I have basenji proofed the best I can w/ 2 kids in the house.

I do not have a room that I can keep him in. He will jump any babygate that I put up. So it's his either his crate or the backyard.

[lvoss]

I keep treat jars in various rooms in my house, up on the mantle, on the kitchen counter, on top of my dresser, on high window ledges so I don't have to hunt for a treat, there should be one handy. Every time you take away something of value to him and he gets nothing in return, it only cements that he should gaurd the things he finds because you will just take it from him.

I really recommend watching and working on Its Yer Choice, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipT5k1gaXhc, so he knows there is something in it for him to make better choices.

If you have nowhere else for his time outs then his crate, use his crate. Don't do it out of anger though and have clear ground rules about what a time out is. It shouldn't be more than a few minutes.

[khanis]

@tangokor:

I'm taking things away from him because he always has something he shouldn't and he's destroyed many things. The kids shoes, socks, toys, paper bags, his crate pad. So when he has these things I'm going to get them away from him not let him tear it up while I look for something else to give him. I'm trying to keep him from chewing up everything in the house!! And yes, I have basenji proofed the best I can w/ 2 kids in the house.

I do not have a room that I can keep him in. He will jump any babygate that I put up. So it's his either his crate or the backyard.

Do you have a garage?
It would be easy to put another crate in there and use it.
I have children myself… and the rule is...
if the dogs have it, you probably left it down for them.
Too bad for you.
Don't go and tell me you can't say that to a toddler.
That is how children learn.
I was able to learn to keep my things put up.
My brothers learned the same way.
My kids learned to keep the things they wanted up away from dogs and bedroom doors closed.
My children's friends have also learned that stuff laying around in dog reach is free game and I don't care to listen to your drivel after you left something out for my dogs to taste test.

I see that you are coming here for advice.
But, I also see that there are a lot of excuses coming up for WHY you can't do certain things [training techniques that really are proven to work].
If you want this dog to be a good dog,
PLEASE go above and beyond before the dog has been driven to the point he will bite one of the children.

Feel free to chat with those of use that have children that have experience with pups/dogs/children all living under the same roof.

BTW… I never read who the breeder of your dog is... was that ever mentioned in this or another post [that I may not have seen?].

[NerdyDogOwner]

@tangokor:

I'm taking things away from him because he always has something he shouldn't and he's destroyed many things. The kids shoes, socks, toys, paper bags, his crate pad. So when he has these things I'm going to get them away from him not let him tear it up while I look for something else to give him. I'm trying to keep him from chewing up everything in the house!! And yes, I have basenji proofed the best I can w/ 2 kids in the house.

I do not have a room that I can keep him in. He will jump any babygate that I put up. So it's his either his crate or the backyard.

First, it's not his fault you are leaving so many things around for him to chew on. Puppies LOVE to chew, and will chew on anything they find. It's up to you to puppy-safe the area getting rid of things he will potentially chew on. Remember he is teething, and it itches. Chewing helps sooth the irritation.

When he is biting on something get a toy he is allowed to chew on and give him that. Don't yell, just make some fun sounds to get his attention like "Ooh, look! Come here!" and go over to the toy. Eventually he will (hopefully) learn that it's the toy he is supposed to chew on.

It's VERY important to keep a structure. It takes time, and if you keep changing techniques, the dog will not understand.

You have a backyard which is great! Make the yard into the "puppy place". Puppy safe it 100% and he should be very happy there. Only have him inside when you can watch him. Have a screen door or something so he can see and hear you.

It's vital you make your home a safe environment for him.

Is he getting enough exercise/play? He might be lashing out due to frustration. Puppies need the love! Take him out to the yard and play, once he is tired put him in his crate to rest. Make sure you make going to the crate a good thing. Give a treat once you place him in it.

[listeme]

I try to approach the "chewing household things" problem with the same overall approach to puppy training as anything else: eliminate or minimize the chance my puppy will develop bad habits. If he is still in the stage of chewing on everything, don't give him free house time whatsoever. It's just like when you were teaching him not to pee. If you can't watch his little butt (or mouth) every SECOND, he needs to be in a place where he can't get in trouble, even if that means he is crated more than you want right now. Think of the times when he is out of the crate and in a chew-danger area as 100 percent watch time.

Teaching him what to chew is SO much easier than unteaching bad habits.

While you're working on this, make sure the stuff he is allowed to chew is wicked great: rawhides probably won't be interesting enough. Bully sticks, smellier the better, good butcher bones, etc.

By the way, one thing that helps me that I don't often see mentioned (and maybe because I'm a complete nut) is that I use a schedule for Simon (and Zelda before him), a written schedule – of his crate times. I do this for several reasons. One, I work at home and need to make sure that I can balance my productivity with his needs. It might be similar to having small children and puppy. Two, it gives me sort of the mental on/off I need to concentrate on his training when he IS out. Three, it gives our household day a structure, which is good for not just the puppy.

It might not work for everyone, but it works for us as we juggle priorities. It seems to agree with Simon

[tangokor]

I appreciate allt he advice given. I'm really not trying to make excuses, just trying to explain my situation. Which is really just EXHAUSTION! I am a single mom juggling 2 kids, dog and the house. If I only let him out of his crate when I could watch him 100% he would never leave his crate. He's in it it while I work. He's in it when he sleeps and in it when I have to leave the house. My backyard is completely safe for him and that's where he plays alot of the time. Although he can now figure out how to open the gate which is another issue. I do not have a garage to put an additional crate in.

The kids have been taught to put away their things (they are 7 &10) and not leave them where the do can get to them, but it's not always just their things. It's furniture, it's things that I do not have a place for, it's pretty much everything. If it's somewhere where I think he can't get it, he finds a way to get it. The bedroom doors stay closed at all times but there are times he gets in there and gets into trouble too.

All this advice is great but I do think I'm in over my head and just can't manage it all. I have been trying to give it 100% and do everything that has been suggested. I really have. The last thing I want is him harming the kids. I just can't keep up w/ him.

The breeder is Kaleonhae's in OH.

[sharronhurlbut]

Maybe its just not a good breed fit with your family?
Is that what I am reading…because there is no shame in admitting the breed is just not working for you.

[tanza]

Sounds to me like you are overwhelmed with the puppy and maybe this was not the best time to bring a new addition into the house. I always tell people it is like having another baby and people need to make sure they really have the time to devote to raising another member of the family. Have you spoken with the breeder? And considered returning him to his breeder?

[listeme]

I so empathize with the exhaustion! And not having another adult to bounce ideas off of would only make it harder.

So, assuming you don't want to give up yet*, what about some solutions that are not optimal? Brainstorming wackily here: what about crating him and setting the timer for 15 minutes all evening after work – every time the timer goes off, you or one of the kids takes him out for five minutes and runs in the backyard with him or does a training session or the like? I'm talking really short sessions but frequent so that he's interacting all evening, but safe most of the time.

What about having the kids "hide" treats in the backyard and then sending him out to find them? Have the kids watch tv with him in his crate and bring him out for commercials. Have everyone take 2 minute turns at being "in charge" of him, passing him on to the next.

I guess I'm trying to come up with ways to keep him involved but mostly contained while he's in this stage.

*Rehoming him is not really giving up; he's at a good age to find a place. But I know that it's more complicated than that in families.

[sharronhurlbut]

I think this b is spending too much time in the crate as it is…IMO
I am wondering how much time this b gets with the kids, in the yard.
A basenji in a yard with the family inside, well, it's not teaching the dog anything.
A b running a bit about the yard isn't the same as getting the dog out and walking him
3 times a day...
Exercise can make a b a better house pet, but you have to have time to do it.

[listeme]

Yeah, I guess I start looking at things like puzzles to solve sometimes

[Quercus]

Strangely enough, I have a client that is going through exactly the same problems right now. I told her honestly, that the dog is not getting enough attention, so he is making his own fun. Single dogs do NOT like to just hang out in the yard, that is almost as boring as hanging out in the crate. They NEED attention, and just being with another being. My first suggestion to my client was to get each person in the family to commit to spending 30 minutes exclusively focused on the dog…preferrably walking, but also playing. And IMO if the dog is crated during the day, he needs to be sleeping at least in the same room as the humans. Ideally, folks in your situation could hire a trainer who will exercise and train the dog a few hours per week during the time you are at work. That way it takes care of two issues..the need of formal training, and the need to be tired out during the day, so you can enjoy the pup in the evening when you are home.

Call Kyle He will help you in any way that he can, I just know it...he is a great breeder and a great guy

[tanza]

What Andrea says is right on….. unless you really have the time to devote to raising a puppy, the puppy is going to do whatever he/she can to get the attention they want. If that is by being bad or getting into mischief, it gets the desired result, your attention. Just like human children, puppies/dogs need stimulation to excerise their minds and body.

One other thought is maybe doggy day care a few times a week to work off some of the energy... and many doggy day cares offer training also. Of course that said, the family still needs to carry on the training when the pup is home.

When people call me about puppies, that is one of the biggest reasons I ask and want to know about their life style. And if their schedule is already packed full...with work, children activities, other outside activities, etc. I will honestly tell them I don't think this is the right time for a dog of any breed in their family.

[MacPack]

As Sharron and Pat have said, there is no shame in realizing you are in over your head. It sounds great, a puppy for the kids, but the reality is a puppy that needs hours of attention and energy to become a well socialized animal. You have a huge energy debt..work, 2 kids, a very energetic young dog who has learned a behavior that gets him attention…good or bad, but attention. If the you and the kids are not enjoying him, rehoming him might be a win-win for everyone. He is nipping YOUR kids now, what if he nips one of their friends? And the parents are upset? Potential suits, or worse (for him). Sometimes making the hard decision to find a new home, or return to breeder, is really the best thing for everyone, especially the dog! One persons problem may be just what someone else is needing. It takes a very brave person to look at the reality, not the dream (dogs, kids, fun, fun, fun), and do the best thing for the dog...and for your kids. Not enough energy to go around, so keep it for your kids.

Good luck to you, if you decide to do that you certainly won't be the first or last. Being home and constantly on edge is no fun for anyone.

[Schouiffy]

I agree with what has been said above. But it's not all doom and gloom; your family might not be ready for a puppy but you could soon be ready for an adult rescue dog who is mature and more readily adjusted for family life. A dog that has already been trained and by some misfortune of fate doesn't have a family. There are loads in shelters and if you are still keen on a Basenji you could always look at BRAT one day when you feel ready.

[Patty]

I hope I'm not speaking ut of place here but it seems to me that the breeder didnn't have full knowledge of your situation before he/she let you have a puppy. When I was breeding puppies I always required full kniowledge of the proposed home situation before i decided whether it was suitable for a Basenji puppy.

I have made some mistakes and placed puppies in homes that didn't suit and have regretted it and had to take the puppy back in those cases.

You obviously have such a busy life and really a Basenji puppy does not seem ideal for you and your family. You certainly seem to be stressed out and i feel so sorry for you. I totally agree with Schouiffy and the others who have so advised. Perhaps later on when your lifestyle is not so hectic you might reconsider. I know how hard it will be to let him go but it seems the best for both you and your family and the puppy.