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Thanks everyone for the information. The opthalmologist currently has him on 3 different drops. I give him Azopt ($135 @ CVS but The Hope Center gives it to me for $88) 3x/day in his bad eye. I give him Flurbiprofen ($50?) in his bad eye 2x/day and I give him a third drop of Timolol ($30 at Pet Meds) 2x/day in both eyes - preventative in the good eye. Overall, it's not so bad. The Timolol bottle is double the size of the other bottles and lasts roughly 2 months. So the reality is that I'm spending around $150/month. She has me coming in once a month for checkups, but they are reasonable and VPI covers 30-40% of the visits. I presume they'll cover the meds also, I just need to submit the claims. The Hope Center has been really good to me - they submit the claims for me if I have enough sense to bring a form with me when I go.
My wife's dog, a OE Sheep Dog, is allergic to EVERYTHING. We've tried EVERYTHING and now we're on the most expensive drug for skin issues called Atopica. With her size, we need four packs per month and each pair of packs runs around $170. My wife's skin guy is giving it to her for around $260/month as opposed to Pet Meds at $340.
Our dogs are costing us $500/month in medications alone!
Glad we don't have kids yet… -
Thanks everyone for the information. The opthalmologist currently has him on 3 different drops. I give him Azopt ($135 @ CVS but The Hope Center gives it to me for $88) 3x/day in his bad eye. I give him Flurbiprofen ($50?) in his bad eye 2x/day and I give him a third drop of Timolol ($30 at Pet Meds) 2x/day in both eyes - preventative in the good eye. Overall, it's not so bad. The Timolol bottle is double the size of the other bottles and lasts roughly 2 months. So the reality is that I'm spending around $150/month. She has me coming in once a month for checkups, but they are reasonable and VPI covers 30-40% of the visits. I presume they'll cover the meds also, I just need to submit the claims. The Hope Center has been really good to me - they submit the claims for me if I have enough sense to bring a form with me when I go.
My wife's dog, a OE Sheep Dog, is allergic to EVERYTHING. We've tried EVERYTHING and now we're on the most expensive drug for skin issues called Atopica. With her size, we need four packs per month and each pair of packs runs around $170. My wife's skin guy is giving it to her for around $260/month as opposed to Pet Meds at $340.
Our dogs are costing us $500/month in medications alone!
Glad we don't have kids yet…Wow, that's a lot of meds! How old is Tucker?
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I had a fear biter years ago. Bless your heart for working so hard with Tucker.
As we had no children, we just crated him when we had company. -
My wife's dog, a OE Sheep Dog, is allergic to EVERYTHING. We've tried EVERYTHING and now we're on the most expensive drug for skin issues called Atopica. With her size, we need four packs per month and each pair of packs runs around $170. My wife's skin guy is giving it to her for around $260/month as opposed to Pet Meds at $340.
I know you probably changed the diet, but have you tried either raw or homecooked( if you don't want to go raw) meals for the allergies? I had a dog (westie) with severe allergies in the past and they vanished once he got on raw diet..just a thought..
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What are you feeding your OE sheep dog now?
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TuckerVA, you are working miracles with Tucker, he is a very lucky dog to have such a dedicated human willing to work so hard to keep him. Kudos to you and your family. Some dogs require unique training and it sounds like you have found a great fit with a trainer. I am so happy for you!
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It is a lot of meds, but it works out since he bit our last dog walker and she quit. I come home during my lunch break now. My wife gives him a few drops in the morning, I give a few at noon and then again in the evening. Tucker is 7.5 now.
Maggie is eating dry food called Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish Formula for Dogs (Maggie will eat anything and since Tucker likes fish, he eats it also). I just now read up on it and it got 4 stars and was rated one of the best allergy foods out there according to this list: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1493&cat=4 but after reading this and the lowered meat content, I might reevaluate what I'm feeding Tucker. I used to feed him Merrick's Wilderness Blend, which is a much better food. As for Maggie, we feed her 1.5-2 cups of the LID and 2 cups of canned green beans (twice a day) since she's also a bit overweight from her stint on steriods (down from 117 to 96lbs so far). The skin guy, Dr. Jeffers in Gaithersburg, Md, has tried everything, from shots to steriods. He did a full allergy panel on Maggie twice and both times over 80% of the things she could be allergic to were checked on the environmental panel list. Grasses, Trees, Dust…. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I'll have her mention it to him and see what he say (re: raw diet). She eats like a pig, though. I can imagine feeding her raw beef or chicken and how much THAT would cost.
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My Westie ate the same food, very good kibble for allergic dogs, but Bogus needed even "cleaner" food, so we took it to the next level, and started him on raw…life changing. He lived many months a year with a cone on his head to prevent him from chewing himself until bleeding. His allergies were to mold, mildew and storage mites...
He is no longer with us...crossed the bridge last spring.
I have three dogs now, all thriving on raw, I spend about the same for their food now as I would if I fed them good quality, high dollar kibble. -
It is a lot of meds, but it works out since he bit our last dog walker and she quit. I come home during my lunch break now. My wife gives him a few drops in the morning, I give a few at noon and then again in the evening. Tucker is 7.5 now.
Maggie is eating dry food called Natural Balance L.I.D. Limited Ingredient Diets Sweet Potato & Fish Formula for Dogs (Maggie will eat anything and since Tucker likes fish, he eats it also). I just now read up on it and it got 4 stars and was rated one of the best allergy foods out there according to this list: http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php?product=1493&cat=4 but after reading this and the lowered meat content, I might reevaluate what I'm feeding Tucker. I used to feed him Merrick's Wilderness Blend, which is a much better food. As for Maggie, we feed her 1.5-2 cups of the LID and 2 cups of canned green beans (twice a day) since she's also a bit overweight from her stint on steriods (down from 117 to 96lbs so far). The skin guy, Dr. Jeffers in Gaithersburg, Md, has tried everything, from shots to steriods. He did a full allergy panel on Maggie twice and both times over 80% of the things she could be allergic to were checked on the environmental panel list. Grasses, Trees, Dust…. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. I'll have her mention it to him and see what he say (re: raw diet). She eats like a pig, though. I can imagine feeding her raw beef or chicken and how much THAT would cost.
Even though it may get high ratings and be high quality the dog may be allergic to something in the food. Your doing an outstanding job with Tucker and you have my respect for not giving up on him.
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I don't think what she eats has so much of a bearing on her skin problems. She's allergic to everything in the environment. Our condo is dusty, but we'll be moving into a new home in about a year, so maybe this will help also. Our condo is built out of toothpicks and elmers glue and the air leakage in the unit is unbelievable. I can dust, and 10 minutes later a new layer has settled. We even had hardwoods…so it's not from the carpet. It's rediculous and we can't wait to get out.
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Just wanted to give an update… Tucker has been doing pretty well in his new environment (we moved to a house about a month ago) and now that he's muzzled almost 24/7. We take it off when he eats and I'll take it off on the few occasions I'm home alone. Since we've moved, we've had children in the house, my mother, and my wife's family and there have been no major incidents. Tucker jumped on some of the kids due to fear, I presume, but the muzzle rendered his 'attacks' innocuous. The kids were scared and cried, but there was no damage done. I still worry that someday a finger might slip into the muzzle by a kid trying to push him away - but thus far, this hasn't occurred. I think once he 'attacks' and realizes he can't do any damage and nothing really changes, he settles down. And just to be clear, the incidents involved the kids jumping around and acting like kids, and it unsettled Tucker, and he leapt at them. I'm sure his intention was to bite someone or something, but, as stated, no damage done. In general, though, I think the situation is much more tolerable and the inhabitants (my wife, the nutcase drunk living with us and myself) are more at ease knowing he can't cause any damage. I'm actually pleased he's taken to it so well. He will actually come to me with muzzle in hand and sit while I strap it on with virtually no reaction to the installation. It's like a collar to him now. I guess even a basenji can get used to it over time.
We still have our backup plan intact, and that involves a sanctuary in Texas. I can't remember how much I've written about that place in here, but they take almost all aggressive dogs since they are an 'end of the line' type sanctuary. The guy who runs it is very personable and started by saving dogs in his garage. Now he has his own ranch and his brother pulls all of the basenji's out of his santuary to live in his own home in NC. We've been donating to the sanctuary since we first contacted them about a year ago. We're up to around $250 and we'll make another donation at Christmas time. The intent is to pay the full 'build an enclosure' fee of about $1,100 prior to the possibility of having to place Tucker there (should we have a child and feel that it's too dangerous in our home). No pregnancies yet, though, so he'll be with us for at least another 9+ months.
The sanctuary is called Smiling Dog Farms, and their website is here: www.smilingdogfarms.org if you'd like to check it out or if you are looking for a worthy place for a donation. You can read about them on their site, if you wish, but the gist of how it works is that if you send your dog there, you are not required to donate anything or pay for anything, but they do ask that, if you can, you donate the enclosure cost for your dog. It's around $1,100 to build the enclosure that will be exclusively your pets home for the rest of his life. It's an outdoor 'cottage' and fenced in area. They WILL place another dog with yours if your dog will accent a 'pal'. They also ask that you help market for them via personal emails and whatnot. It costs around $80/month for upkeep on each dog there if I remember correctly. The intent is, if you send them a dog, that you can get, from family and friends, committments the equate to around $80/month. Or, naturally, you can sponsor a dog already there. Again, Tucker is not slated to go just yet and we have found at least one other sanctuary that is closer, but it's currently full and since Tucker is doing well, we are trying to accommodate the situation as best we can. We want to be prepared which is why we are working on getting the full $1,100 to them within a year or so should the possibility that Tucker needs to go there become a reality. If he never goes, then we've sustained the life of someone elses beloved pet for a year or more. I'm sure we'll continue to support their cause regardless as we know, up close and personal, what it's like to try to coexist with a dog with behavioral issues and what it's like to have to consider parting with said dog. I hope this didn't come across as a sales pitch because that is not my intent. As for everything else, we will be moving forward with building our new home in Virginia within the next 3-6 months. We've cleaned up the hoarding mess left by our crazy relative (about whom I've mentioned in previous posts). If you have any interest at all as to what we've been up against, I put together a 'before and after' video of the cleanup of one of the two houses. This is of the one that she set fire to (accidentally). It's located on my own personal server on my own personal domain, so it's safe to download! http://www.jtnewton.com/Images/16th%20Road%20Cleanup%20Before%20and%20After_0001.wmv Enjoy! We did this process twice, in two separate houses, and we're living in the other one (with the drunk, hoarding crazy semi-relative). Keep in mind only one house had a fire, and the cleanup was simply to clear the hoarding violations with the county. The house will be demolished when we're ready to proceed with construction. No niceties required - just cleaning the house out. As for statistics, we removed 4ea 30 cuyd dumpsters of stuff from the house with the fire and filled up an 8' x 8' x 40' sea container of stuff she would not let us trash - it is sitting in the driveway of the OTHER house presently, the one where we live. Regarding the house we live in (the second house), we removed 3ea 30 cuyd dumpsters of junk from inside the house and another dumpster of yard debris (the backyard was a jungle and had the counties attention also). The attic is still full of crap and the house is a single level 1,800 sqft house - so that gives you some idea of the amount of crap in it. The room she now occupies in the house is slowly filling up with more junk she aquires from 'we don't know where'. Now that the backyard has been clearcut, Tucker (and my wife's dog) have a large place to run when they want.
Anyway, I know this is long winded, but it's where we are with Tucker and everything else we've accomplished and what we face in the not too distant future.
Cheers,
Jason -
Thank you , Jason, for the update. I've thought of you and your Tucker often, and I'm glad to hear he's made progress. You sound much more calm than before, and with a plan in place, you should be. I'm going to download your video so that I can feel "normal"!
(Err, I just watched it, HOLY MOLY! I can understand the stress level you've been living through… bless you, your wife, and Tucker! :))
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I am just now reading, and after 3 pages skipped back to end.
One thing I don't see mentioned isn't aesthetically appealing but an option. If you are determined to not euthanize the dog, why not just have his front teeth pulled or filed down? No muzzle will be needed. I would still, for his own calm, crate him with people are visiting, but really, that might be a real solution. I usually advise people in your situation to euthanize, but I do know several who simply had the vet pull or file down all the front teeth. The one issue with pulling is the tongue often hangs out (hence the not aesthetically appealing).
I also didn't see if you mentioned prozac or similar medications. I once knew a really scary Weimaraner that, put on prozac, became a good dog.
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We thought about the "K9 disarming", but the vets in our area don't do it. They euthanize before they pull or file dog's teeth. Yeah, we could probably find someone, but, like a muzzle, it doesn't change the behavioral issue and tooth removal/filing actually does less than a muzzle does regarding protecting others. A dog with ANY teeth can still bite and could potentially cut or tear skin.
We also explored medication. The last behaviorist we went to, the dog trainer (George ****rell) and my vet said not to put him on drugs. They all have agreed that it's not really a mental issue with the dog - he has simple been abused to the point of fearing everyone that is a stranger to him. The side effects of prozac and the other 'calming' drugs available for dogs include agression. While I could certainly TRY these options, we chose not to. Knowing what we know, he would still be behind the muzzle 24/7. So why add drugs into the mix when the problem is currently idle?
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The purpose of drugs is to change the stress and allow the dog to learn behaviors. Like with humans, psychiatric drugs are not the cure, they are there to HELP while new behaviors are worked on. Often a dog who has learned fearful behaviors, on medication, can be trained. Often the drugs give enough off the edge so that the dog is less reactive. And yes, some drugs can have side effects of aggression, but that is NOT the norm.
Second, if the dog is that aggressive, it has to be terribly stressed. The drugs may help the dog feel less stressed and that is a good thing, no? Muzzle or not, if medications can help make this dog feel less threatened, it is a plus imho to try it.
Third, teeth. Yes filed teeth still can give pressure damage, but the bite on a small dog is not bad. On a large dog, it would still be dangerous. Leveling the teeth makes the dog not a danger. And like I said, I understand your vet's feelings. So many good dogs, the expense of saving one dangerous one with pulling all the teeth or filing doesn't seem like a good use of funds. But since you are determined to not put down, and looking at over $1000 for a lot, then another $960 a year for life for care… I just offered it as an option to allow the dog to be with humans (ie your home) and not live in a pen for the rest of his life.
That said, I am sorry but I have seen dogs horrifically abused who do not learn that level of aggression. For this dog to respond the way it does, there are "mental" or behavioral components not just having been abused. I am confused about the abuse indicated.. do you KNOW this dog was abused or just surmise it since your post only mentions having bitten previous owner and teen on street, not abuse. Often people get an insanely aggressive dog and just think it must have been abused when in reality the dog simply is what it is.
Finally, no matter what... you are a saint. Whatever happens with this dog, even if you put him down tomorrow, you have given him love and security beyond what most people would have done.
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We may still someday try drugs, god knows they have helped the rest of my family!
Regarding the disarming, you are correct. I simply see no need to spend this type of money on THAT and put him through the procedure and adjustment when we have found a rather innocuous method to alleviate the danger. Granted, there still remains the possibility that a finger could slip the muzzle and be injured, but it's less likely than an injury related to dull teeth. I think, psychologically, that a bite from a dog with flat teeth would be more traumatic than a dog bumping his face into you in an attempted bite. With the muzzle, the 'bite' does not occur. With flat teeth, the bit still occurs. The money spent on a possible sanctuary situation, in my opinion, is a better option for now because things are working at this point. It's the eventual child factor we are preparing for. Muzzle or not, disarmed or not - it will be an entire new element in the equation. Tucker may turn into a kids most valuable defender, or, he may try to eat a kid. We just can't know that now.
What I can't remember whether or not I have posted is that during all of this, he suffered a lens luxation in his right eye. Currently, we're administering eyedrops to the tune of around $200/month to keep inflammation and eye pressures at bay. So far, so good. The eye specialist says the other lens will go at some point, but cannot define a timeframe. Some the next day, some never - but never is very rare. So in addition to the other issues, there's blindness on one side. I did have him checked for head trauma from his past - no evidence. According to the doctor, a dog would have to simply be knocked completely stupid and potentially killed for a lens to come loose due to impact or head trauma. I had him checked because he stepped through an open set of concrete stairs and whacked his face on the step just prior to the lense coming loose. No cuts or bleeding, but in hindsight, I remembered he had done that prior to the luxation. If the other DOES go, we will opt for the micro-surgery (another $5K) to preserve sight in the remaining good eye. The doc says dogs adapt with one good eye and function 100% normally (with the exception of the occasional wall he bumps into on that side). Having weighed all the options (drops, eye removal and the micro surgery), we, along with the doctor, decided, presently, the drops were the way to go. I also didn't think he would adjust too well to the required 6 weeks in an Elizabethan Collar. If you don't have VPI Pet Insurance, I highly recommend it. It cuts the surgeries by around 40% and it's been well worth it for Tucker. It also pays for a considerable amount of his drugs and the office visits to the specialists and regular vet visits we've endured this (and other) year(s).
Some of this is personal preference, some are assumptions. I'd like to think I've done the best for him that I could have given our circumstances. Considering all that we have endured this year (behaviorist kill diagnoses, lens luxation, integration of a nutcase drunk into our home and a move), I think he's done quite well. The move, especially, went as slick as it could have possibly gone. He's adapted almost immediately. He's only tried to REALLY bite 3 people since the muzzle went on and that was….geeze...March or so? One was in the past 2 weeks and I don't really count it because it was a locksmith. Who doesn't want to bite a locksmith???
The main difference now is that he quickly realizes he can't do any damage and life goes on whether he's tried to bite someone or not. While he used to shake and rattle for a while after the 'incidents', he now just skulks away and ignores the situation.
As for abuse, we are assuming. According to the previous owner, there were just two of them. They had a limited social life and did not have many guests into their home. Therefore, I imagine Tucker bonded with them both. When wife got pregnant, the bond shifted from wife and 'bun in the oven', leaving hubby out of the picture. Tucker became aggressive toward the husband in defense of the wife and unborn child in her belly. All incidents they reported to me after I realized the situation I was in once I adopted him, and incidents occurred on my end, appeared to be in defense of the wife and unborn child. The main reasons we assume abuse was that he was rehomed 4 times in his first 6 months of life and came to the family before me with the broken tail. The bone protrudes from the end of the fur/skin. It's bare bone there. Indicative (based on what I've read, observed myself from flinging squirrels by their tails as an incorrigable teenager and upon observation from several veterinarians) of a pull-off rather than a cut (like from a door or crate shut on it). Something that occurred to me as I read responses last night is something new to me. It never dawned on me that there could be nerve damage in his tail and rear-end that could be causing him pain. Combine that with the fact that I have only seen him wag his tail about 3 times in 4 years might mean something I've thus far missed. However, I can touch his tail and he doesn't appear to react which is why this has never, until now, occurred to me before. I have even wagged it for him with my fingers. He pretty much reacted like I would think any other dog would. He looks over his shoulder and snorts at me and, if he could talk, I would imagine he would be saying something like, "Dude....WTF?"
Tucker will not be allowed to hurt anyone ever again. He will also, as long as I have a say in it, be able to live the rest of his life.
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Thanks for the udate, Tucker's dad! I am glad to hear that you are sticking with him. Good work
Sometimes taking away the bite, makes the dog relax, because he doesn't feel like he can or must control the situation. It also may interrupt the chain of emotions that leads to him losing control. -
Thanks for the update, i'm glad you are copeing. It never ceases to amaze me the lengths people will go to for their pets.
Hats off to you, it can't be easy. -
Have to agree, sounds like he truly had a rough time. Bless his and your heart.
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Poor Tucker, having had so many homes in such a short while - and well done for looking after him so well.
It seems you can all (including Tucker) live with the muzzle so what would be the point of filing/removing teeth - it seems barbaric to me.
Ble
ss you for doing the best you can for him.
