@eeeefarm said in Crate Training Struggles:
What about something like this?
A cabin hook on a spring ? yes, that could well do the trick. I will google one forthwith - thank you !
Alone training
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I think the post by Emm should be made into a sticky! It is full of great info, and shows how sometimes if you really want to change a behavior you have to stick to your plan, and do things you don't really want to do…but it works if you are consistant about it.
Sometimes you do everything you can to make the crate a great place, and the dog still hates it...and if you must use the crate to protect the dog and your house, you have to resort to methods that just make the dog (and you) tough it out.
Great job Emm, Clarr and Kai
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Gizmo doesn't hate his crate. I don't know where people are getting this from. He happily goes in it, sleeps in it, even goes in at command.
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Gizmo doesn't hate his crate. I don't know where people are getting this from. He happily goes in it, sleeps in it, even goes in at command.
Well, then why not put him in his crate so you can leave the house?
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I have mentioned this before.
He chews at the bars, and gets his jaw stuck between them, then screams in pain. I don't want to come home to a dog with a broken jaw.
The whole issue is getting past his separation anxiety. All professionals advise against having a dog with separation anxiety left in a crate. It's like locking a person with claustrophobia in a box, you would panic and hurt yourself doing whatever you can to get out…even if it means spilling some blood. And resulting in pushing that person deeper into anxiety.
I am however trying to save up some money for a plastic crate.
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If he has anxiety attacks when you leave him in the crate then it isn't accurate to say that he is fine with his crate.
How does he do in the crate when you are there but the door is closed so his freedom to come and go is removed?
Does the anxiety start when you leave you room or only when you leave the house?
How are you currently using the crate?
There is a good video called Crate Games that goes through a process of getting the dog enjoy staying in the crate even with distance, duration, and distraction.
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I have mentioned this before.
He chews at the bars, and gets his jaw stuck between them, then screams in pain. I don't want to come home to a dog with a broken jaw.
The whole issue is getting past his separation anxiety. All professionals advise against having a dog with separation anxiety left in a crate. It's like locking a person with claustrophobia in a box, you would panic and hurt yourself doing whatever you can to get out…even if it means spilling some blood. And resulting in pushing that person deeper into anxiety.
I am however trying to save up some money for a plastic crate.
I agree with you on this.. Please don't lock him up in his crate if he will panic..
Can't you go to a professional behaviorist? Or maybe find a dog sitter, so you can do your things and Gizmo doesn't have to be alone?It took a loooooong time with Tillo before he could be alone without all the crying.. Even if I brought him to my mom.. he would know that I would leave him and he would whine and be nervous. He is doing ok now for short periods (yes.. after two years of not really being able to do things without finding a sitter first).
Now that we have Lycia he's even doing better.. last week I left them alone for 2 hours.. wow! They won't go to sleep.. they will walk around in the house.. laying for 5 min.. looking at the door.. Lycia whines every 5 to 10 minutes.. but they are ok.I hope that if you give Gizmo some time, he will partly grow out of it.. And if I were you I would try to find someone who can help me with this
You could try this… but I don't know if Gizmo is very food motivated..
I have used a (very well sealed) cookie box. Put it on the ground when you're about to leave.. leave the house for a minute.. come back and give him a treat out of the box. (he will probably still be staring at it..)
You can expand those minutes.. Gizmo will (hopefully) know that if you put the box down, you are about to leave.. but he also knows that you will return to give him a treat from the box..Just an idea... I hope you will find a good solution for you and Gizmo!
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I have mentioned this before.
He chews at the bars, and gets his jaw stuck between them, then screams in pain. I don't want to come home to a dog with a broken jaw.
The whole issue is getting past his separation anxiety. All professionals advise against having a dog with separation anxiety left in a crate. It's like locking a person with claustrophobia in a box, you would panic and hurt yourself doing whatever you can to get out…even if it means spilling some blood. And resulting in pushing that person deeper into anxiety.
I am however trying to save up some money for a plastic crate.
Okay, I was confused because you said that he doesn't hate his crate. This is arguing semantics..he doesn't hate his crate, he hates it when you close the door. You did mention that you tried to watch a movie while he was in his crate, and he raised holy hell…right?
There is a difference between a dog that has true separation anxiety, and a dog that correctly (or erroneously) thinks that pitching a giant temper tantrum will make their human come back. If it is true separation anxiety (or dog claustrophobia) you will need to start with drugs, to be able to get past the anxiety to train him. And I am not talking about a sedative..you need an anti-anxiety drug. You can't train a dog that is in a state of panic. It will not be forever, just long enough to settle him so he can start realizing the world doesn't come to an end when the crate door is shut.
If it is a temper tantrum, you have to retrain him by making it clear to him that screaming will NOT make you appear..ever....
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Nerdy…
Kairoe is pretty much like Gizmo, in sense that he does not hate his crate when the door is open. He too, will readily go into his crate when we take away his den bed or eliminate his urge from sleeping on the carpet by the door. He then has no other option but to go in his crate when he wants to rest. However, once the door is closed he'll whine a lil bit - especially when we're sitting next to it. When we leave and go to another room and we're out of sight, then that's another issue that we're working on, but we've come a long way, and he whines for about 5 minutes until he figures out that he has no other option than to sleep. We must add that we gave him a cue phrase of 'go to sleep' when he begins digging or whining - this works, but only when it's towards the end of the night or if he's in his car crate and on a long drive.
Regarding the chewing on the bars. He has caught his jaw on the bars more than once but after those ordeals he's been a bit smarter and will only chew the areas where he knows he can't get caught. Perhaps it's a fear that you may have to work on? Hell, the fear of coming home to Kiaroe choking on a crate toy still freaks us out but we're smarter now and have learned that he cannot get hurt if there's nothing in there!
If this helps, maybe sit with him for at least an hour with the crate door closed and not say a word, no corrections - nothing. And then take an hour with treats and work with his movement in the crate, only correcting and treating what you like - no pawing the door, no nosing the door and keeping his paws inside at all times. If he bites a bar correct. Once he lets go and with a cue of 'leave it' - give him a treat. Another thing that we do is use the latch sound as a cue. His crate has two latches and once we reach for them he'll whine to get out. He can be quiet right before, but once he sees us go for them he'll whine. What we do is wait for him to be quiet and then open one latch, the other latch does not get open until he is totally quiet. I worked with him for two hours in his car crate until he actually got this. He is in a sit stay position for the whole time and cannot come out of the crate until we give him the command. This was helpful as he used to bolt out of his crate once the door was opened and would run off in a parking lot!
The size of your crate is perfect. Kairoe's crate is probably 2 inches smaller in length wise but 2 inches higher in height. Does Gizmo eliminate in his crate or just in the room? If he does eliminate in the crate then take away his bedding and leave him for a few hours and see what he does. If you decide to leave the bedding then be warned that he may destroy it. We too use the fleece blanket, and it's the only bedding he gets when we leave him in his crate alone, otherwise upon our return, his normal bedding is replaced.
What we're learning about all this is our fear. The fear of him being caught in bars, but knowing after his ordeal he does not go for those areas and knowing that we worked with him all those times to keep paws in and nose off provides that added security that he is safe....still freaking out for 15 minutes at a time, but safe...you should take a deep breath, ensure his crate is safety proofed and plan a night out for at least a few hours....close the crate and leave...you may come back to a mess here and there, but after you get the hang of it and once Gizmo gets the hang of it, you'd be thoroughly surprised how smart our B's actually are!
Clar will post the pics of his crate - I have to go to work...
Cheers,
Emm & Clar
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Persistence, consisitency & patience are key. Callie was crate trained when she came home, but she tested me to see if I knew it. Every time I put her in the crate, she would scream & try to get out frantically. Whenever I left the house, I could hear her screaming as I walked away. It lasted about 5 minutes until she was sure I was gone, then she would settle down and be fine.
She slowly started to realize it didn't do any good, so she would stay quiet unless I took more than 30 seconds to get out of the door. As long as she had an audience, she put on the show, acting like being in the crate was killing her.
Lola also was not very keen on going in the crate, and I had to catch them both & put them in the crate myself every time I wanted to leave the house.
I started using high value treats (cheese) to get Callie & Lola in the crate. At first, I would catch them, put them in the crate & give them treats & leave.
As time went on, I played games with them when I wasn't actually leaving. Treat them for coming close to the crate, then for going in the crate, then for going in & sitting, etc. Now whenever they hear me pull out cheese, they both run & sit in the crate & wait for their treats without me even giving them the "go to crate" command.
Since I can't actually see Gizmo, I have no way of knowing if he's actually that upset, or if its just a show he's putting on to let you know he's unhappy with the situation. Callie had me convinced a few times that she really would hurt herself, but if I ignored it, she would stop. She was like this in her car crate for a while as well, but by refusing to acknowledge her antics, she quickly settled down here as well. Now I have no crating problems.
I'm not saying this is the case with Gizmo, I'm just saying maybe it is. He could be doing this for the reaction. You seem very concerned (and rightly so) about his well being. Maybe he's playing off of your fears & convincing you you can't leave him. Something to consider. They are very cunning. -
Dogs can sense how we feel and will work off it to their advantage.
As I said before, I suggest you get him on some kind of anti-anxiety medication that is regulated as to dosage and strength. This would eliminate naturopathic herbs and such, as they are not regulated…at least, not in the US. The medication is to be used faithfully and for long enough to get him over the worst part of his anxiety. Medications like Prozac can be used in this manner, but they must be tapered off rather than just suddenly dropped.
If you can get him over himself and keep him on an even keel for a few months, there is no reason to continue with the medication. What you are doing right now isn't working. Perhaps some remedial training for both of you in conjunction with a medication will help you both.
As I also said before, if you do not get this behavior under control now and continue allowing him to run the household, you will never have a balanced relationship with him. And please don't say he isn't running your household. You can't go out, you had to forgo a visit with your family and you can't peacefully watch a movie. It sounds like you can't even go to the grocery store. That means your dog runs your household.
So: Do you want a dog temporarily on (real) medication so you can get him used to the idea you have a life? Or do you want to have things remain as they are for, I don't know, perhaps the next fifteen years? Decide soon, because once he gets in a long habit of being a pain in the butt, it will be ever more difficult to stop.
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Went to the vet today, got proscribed a drug called Clomicalm.
Even though Gizmo seems to be reacting well to the "though love" treatment, I can see this method will take too long for him to adjust to before I start my next class (starts next month)..from which I will be gone everyday thereafter.
I did get a printout of the drug, explaining how it works, and I feel comfortable with it. It's supposed to be used along with training and does not dope him out, but instead reduces the chemicals to the brain that triggers "panic"….if I understand the description correctly.
I think this is the best solution for him, and myself. But I do feel bad since it will effect his normal daily behavior. It's almost as if I am forbidding him being a puppy.....
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Went to the vet today, got proscribed a drug called Clomicalm.
Even though Gizmo seems to be reacting well to the "though love" treatment, I can see this method will take too long for him to adjust to before I start my next class (starts next month)..from which I will be gone everyday thereafter.
I did get a printout of the drug, explaining how it works, and I feel comfortable with it. It's supposed to be used along with training and does not dope him out, but instead reduces the chemicals to the brain that triggers "panic"….if I understand the description correctly.
I think this is the best solution for him, and myself. But I do feel bad since it will effect his "normal" daily behavior". It's almost as if I am forbidding him being a puppy.....
I think this is a great solution for you and Gizmo. You should be able to break that cycle of panic that happens when you leave, and then taper off the meds.
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I hope the tablets help Gizmo, it must be such a worry for you with starting classes
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I think this is the best solution for him, and myself. But I do feel bad since it will effect his normal daily behavior. It's almost as if I am forbidding him being a puppy…..
I was worried about this with Katie on the prozac as well, but it really didn't. As a matter of fact, I got to see her play and be silly more, because she was finally able to relax. I hope the clomicalm works like this for Gizmo.
Remember, It will take a few weeks to see the full effect, so be patient.-Nicole
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I was worried about this with Katie on the prozac as well, but it really didn't. As a matter of fact, I got to see her play and be silly more, because she was finally able to relax. I hope the clomicalm works like this for Gizmo.
Remember, It will take a few weeks to see the full effect, so be patient.-Nicole
That's good to hear.
The pills do say allow 2 months of use to pass before "giving up", if by that time there is no change then a different drug should be used.
Sadly I am gonna have to wait a week before I get the drug. The pharmasy didn't have them, so it had to be ordered.
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Just curious - have you tested the drug yet? How is it working? I take it you can read norwegian as you live her. If you want to, I can email you som info I got after a session with Gry L?berg regarding my Giants seperation anxiety, it has a training program in it, and some general info.
