My mix is just a little shorter, and there's a similar thread going on here right now. As I say in that one, only DNA can tell you.
https://basenjiforums.com/topic/14838/i-know-you-are-tired-of-being-asked/5
-Joanne
The Humanization of Dogs Part 2
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It is a known fact that 'nurture' counts for at least as much if not more of personality development than 'nature' in humans. This is bound to be true for dogs as well.
I think it is convenient for people to say "oh this dog was probably poorly bred and thus has bad temperament." As opposed to taking responsibility for their part in the dog's problems. Once a behavior has become 'set' in a dog's mind, it can be a lot of work to overcome it. Some people choose to look the other way or blame breeding instead of properly dealing with the situation.
To be fair to the animal all medical issues must be fully explored and off the table, and then a hard look must be taken at the 'nurture' part of the equation, before throwing up one's hands and blaming 'nature.'
When it comes to rescue dogs, since we have so little information about where problems stem from that much care, and expertise must be applied to properly manage their situations.
Randa
I don't think that it is a "known fact" how much behavior is attributable to nuture vs. nature in any species. That is still a hotly debated subject in the world of psychology, and animal behavior.
I didn't intend to imply that bad behavior is exclusively the fault of bad breeding, I would NEVER suggest such a thing. But I can confidently say there are SOME dogs out there, where the breeders and owners have done everything right, and the dog still just has a challenging temperament. It isn't anybody's fault…it just happens sometimes....just like people with challenging temperament.
But I certainly agree, that regardless of why or how, people need to get qualified, experienced help when they find that they have a challenging dog on their hands. Being a trainer by profession, it wouldn't make any sense for me to say 'well, the dog has a bad temperament, nothing can be done'...and I never meant to come across as if that would be acceptable.
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I wouldn't even say "nuture vs nature"…it's not really an either/or situation but an interplay between the two. As long as we are making suggestions for reading material, the following is a good read if you have the time...it illustrates many examples from the animal world.
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I would have suggested:
in reference to nature vs nurture especially in regards to basenjis.
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I never suggested that "humanization" was the only factor in aggressive canine behavior. It has been shown, however, to have an impact if the animal is not dealt with in a manner that makes it clear where it stands in pack order with regard to humans. IMO, the best way to do this is by using the animal's own language to tell it.
It's the method I used to train my cats. Cats and dogs don't speak human. They have their own languages respectively. If we take the time to learn it, our jobs as leaders of said animals is greatly simplified. It may be as basic as making sure your dog knows he or she is lower in pack order by eating before the animal does.
I do concede it is true that some dogs, by nature of their breeding, are more aggressive than others. In these cases, treating them as if they are human is not appropriate.
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@AJs:
I never suggested that "humanization" was the only factor in aggressive canine behavior. It has been shown, however, to have an impact if the animal is not dealt with in a manner that makes it clear where it stands in pack order with regard to humans. IMO, the best way to do this is by using the animal's own language to tell it.
It's the method I used to train my cats. Cats and dogs don't speak human. They have their own languages respectively. If we take the time to learn it, our jobs as leaders of said animals is greatly simplified. It may be as basic as making sure your dog knows he or she is lower in pack order by eating before the animal does.
I do concede it is true that some dogs, by nature of their breeding, are more aggressive than others. In these cases, treating them as if they are human is not appropriate.
Hi AJ,
You will find that lots of us here don't adhere to the theory that dog training revolves around adhering to strict pack order in dogs. There is research out there that describes pack order in domestic dogs as much more flexible and ambient than it is in wolves; and therefore more confusing than helpful, particuarly with dogs with behavioral problems. Of course humans in the family should be seen as the leader(s) in the eyes of the dog….but there is much debate as to whether eating before the dog has any benefit...consistancy and boundary setting is much more vital.
That being said, there are lots of different training philosophies that have sucess with different types of dogs. And I agree that finding a way to communicate with the dog that makes sense to the dog, is the best way to proceed with any training
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Quercus:
This is what I enjoy about these forums: There are so many differing opinions and everyone seems comfortable in sharing them. I'm not being sarcastic…I truly mean this.
As with everyone else here, I draw on experience which has worked consistently for me.
Have a great day!
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I am with you 100% Belinda (AJs Human).
Rita Jean
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This has been a great topic, I have enjoyed reading the responses. Ok for our houshold, no birthday parties, both my dogs are rescue and I don't even know their specifc birthday. I haven't picked a date to celebrate, there is no special food or treats. Does one of my dogs lay in my lap or beside me on the couch. Yes. because I have invited them. Does this humanize them NO, because as much as we like to say Basenjis are a primitive breed, we still have domisticated them to a degree which means they enjoy the company of the humans. For our household that company is hands on, petting snuggling and affection. Do I sometime talk silly to my dogs, YES. Not because I think they understand, it is simple an interaction. Yes on special holiday occassion will dress up my dogs if they will tolerate it, but only for public interaction. The costume,bandana etc. is a familar thing and adults and children who are uncertain around a strange animal brings a comfort level to the situation. For Halloween my husband enjoys decorating the outside of our house. (we are the talk of the neighborhood, I've had people bring their children just to have pics at my house) So I pass out candy with my dogs on the steps. My dogs in costume relax the intimidated children and the dogs get a pat on the head and gain socialization skill around people they don't know, which helps build their confidence level. I think most of this humanziation issue, is brought about by small group of people who go overboard and really think that the dog (animal) is human. Yes those people have a psycological problem.
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I think that if they are not hurting anybody than it doesn't really bother me. I do believe that costumes are a bit ridiculous but I put coats on my dog and that serves more as a function against bad weather. What bothers me is when people use dogs as an accessory rather than a pet. For example your Paris Hilton types who put there dog in a purse and carry them around like an accessory and put diamond necklaces on them.
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Very interesting posts..well worth thinking about.
Me, I don't dress my dog, or do dog play dates, but I do take them on vacation with me when I can.
Why, cause I like their company! Laugh. -
@AJs:
I never suggested that "humanization" was the only factor in aggressive canine behavior. It has been shown, however, to have an impact if the animal is not dealt with in a manner that makes it clear where it stands in pack order with regard to humans. IMO, the best way to do this is by using the animal's own language to tell it.
It's the method I used to train my cats. Cats and dogs don't speak human. They have their own languages respectively. If we take the time to learn it, our jobs as leaders of said animals is greatly simplified. It may be as basic as making sure your dog knows he or she is lower in pack order by eating before the animal does.
I do concede it is true that some dogs, by nature of their breeding, are more aggressive than others. In these cases, treating them as if they are human is not appropriate.
AJ's human, Do you really mean body language when you suggest learning the animals language? I do agree that if we pay attention to certain body language and habits that our pets appear to have, we do develop at least in a limited sense the ability to understand when something might be bothering them, or they need something from us. Sometimes it takes a bit to figure out what they are after, but I think owners who pay attention to detail and repetitive behavior can usually figure out what their Basenji or other pet might be after. I certainly wish I could learn to speak dog. It would make my pets life and my life so much easier, and I could also earn a lot of money as an animal behaviorist or phycologist.
Jason
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AJ's human, Do you really mean body language when you suggest learning the animals language? I do agree that if we pay attention to certain body language and habits that our pets appear to have, we do develop at least in a limited sense the ability to understand when something might be bothering them, or they need something from us. Sometimes it takes a bit to figure out what they are after, but I think owners who pay attention to detail and repetitive behavior can usually figure out what their Basenji or other pet might be after. I certainly wish I could learn to speak dog. It would make my pets life and my life so much easier, and I could also earn a lot of money as an animal behaviorist or phycologist.
Jason
Not to belittle the issue at hand….but Dr. Doolittle (the original, w/ Rex Harrison) was one of my favorite movies growing up. Ahhh... if only....."I could talk to the animals....". That being said, I think you are right about the body language, ComcDom1. That is probably the best indicater of upcoming behavior in any breed (or other animals, including humans). It is the irresponsible pet owner that doesn't take the time to learn these signs that usually ends up with trouble. Personally, I took knowledge from my job with, sometimes, unstable and dangerous humans, and used it (as far as body language) to help when i got my first B. Learning to read the signs has saved me a world of hurt (physical and mental), both at work and with my Bs.:)
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Body language is important. Learning how to use eye contact and tone of voice is important too. For instance: If you speak to your dog in a high pitched tone, it indicates excitement and that your are pleased with them…If you lower your tone, especially when they've done something you are unhappy about, they recognize this easier than the words themselves. At least that's been my experience.
Dogs (and cats) use so many communication methods...it's a matter of working with your own dog (or cat.) There are other subtle methods I use and AJ seems to respond to my cues rather well. Again, I have different requirements than other pet people.
Zest's person could probably help too, having looked at her agility trials.
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@AJs:
Body language is important. Learning how to use eye contact and tone of voice is important too. For instance: If you speak to your dog in a high pitched tone, it indicates excitement and that your are pleased with them…If you lower your tone, especially when they've done something you are unhappy about, they recognize this easier than the words themselves. At least that's been my experience.
Dogs (and cats) use so many communication methods...it's a matter of working with your own dog (or cat.) There are other subtle methods I use and AJ seems to respond to my cues rather well. Again, I have different requirements than other pet people.
Zest's person could probably help too, having looked at her agility trials.
Ah yes, they really do respond well to a higher tone and lower tone when speaking to them. Whenever Kananga has done something naughty, I don't even need to motion anything, I just say his name in a low tone and he instantly responds to it knowing he has done something wrong. The ol' whippet ears go into action.
I always use a higher tone when he's playing so he understands the difference. Seems to work.
