Oh my goodness, I do not know how I didn't see this thread before! (I hit new posts so strange!) What a wonderful LOVE story and pictures. Thank you for sharing and starting my day with such delight! 🙂
The Humanization of Dogs Part 2
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@Rita:
Agilebasenji little off course here. The Alzheimers it depends on how far along and the moment in time. Most would smile and know if dog had a silly coat on or hat. I am on round two of having Alzheimers live in my home so far this time been over three years and I hope many more to come. Until you have lived with Alzheimers day and night you would never believe the things that make a smile. Try a little coat or just anything just food for thought.
Rita Jean
Oh yes, I agree, been going to the Alz once a month for years, which is why I do the bandana. I do have an xmas hat/collar. Their therapy dog collars are also fancy and have dangling beads. That's usually enough; heck being there (with or without a dog) is usually enough. The holiday bandana is enough to start a chat about the upcoming holiday.
I promised them no costumes unless we were going to visit kids in a hospital. And I keep my promises I make to my pups. (More humanization?)
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Thank you Agilebasenji your a good person must be the humanization LOL…..........
I know your correct the bandana starts a chat I like the fact you keep your promises.
Rita Jean
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There are also many people who are having problems because they are still using outdated techniques and theories in their interactions with their dogs.
Here is a another good link, http://www.avsabonline.org/avsabonline/images/stories/Position_Statements/dominance%20statement.pdf
And some are having problems because their dog was born with a naturally poor temperament…then compounded by lack of appropriate guidance with how to deal with these problems.
It is incredibly simplistic and inaccurate to assume that people who are having aggression problems with their dogs are at fault for "spoiling" them, or humanizing them.
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Exactly, Andrea, there is no one size fits all reason for why people may have problems with their dogs. That is one reason we are always recommending bringing in an animal behaviorist or trainer who can actually observe what is going on.
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This is a great topic…
This is where we stand..Dog halloween costumes..my kids get to buy them when they are on sale ($2.50 or less), the dauchshund does mind it so he never wears his, my daughter's schnauzer mix might not love it ( or she might, I just don't understand Schnauzer..), but she sure doesn't mind, she just prances around and loves the attention..
Otis who knows..he has not been in one yet..As far as dog play dates..it is what it is, dogs playing on a certain date..we never meet up with friends dogs at the park, but have a "Lopez" playdate at a different local..seems to work for socialization and wears them out..What more can you ask for?
The birthday party, we throw each dog a party in our home, only to give them treats and extra love, but no invites, cake or anything like that, just extra yummy food and some treats..oh and we have been known to have some party hats involved..
Presents, yes they all get their own chirstmas presents, mainly because our kids and me too, see them as family, and in our family we give...The dogs love it and the kids love it..win win.
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Way to go Basenjimamma, yes I like it tell it like it is.
Rita Jean
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And some are having problems because their dog was born with a naturally poor temperament…then compounded by lack of appropriate guidance with how to deal with these problems.
It is incredibly simplistic and inaccurate to assume that people who are having aggression problems with their dogs are at fault for "spoiling" them, or humanizing them.
While I agree that there can be many causes for aggression and bad behavior in dogs, I do not believe anyone here is being simplistic or inaccurate. There are many factors that affect temperament, and bad breeding is not at fault for all of the problems that people encounter with their dogs. In fact, I would venture to say that genetically 'poor temperament' accounts for far less of the problems than is claimed. It is a known fact that 'nurture' counts for at least as much if not more of personality development than 'nature' in humans. This is bound to be true for dogs as well.
I am not saying that all problems can be overcome with the right training methods, because I know for sure that it is not true. I've owned a dog that was a biter. We never knew why he bit, and he never bit family. We never overcame this, we learned to manage it, by keeping him away from strangers, and muzzling him when necessary for his protection as well as the protection of others. I do not know if his problems stemmed from nature, or from nurture, because he was a rescued stray, and I had no background on him before he came to me.
I think it is convenient for people to say "oh this dog was probably poorly bred and thus has bad temperament." As opposed to taking responsibility for their part in the dog's problems. Once a behavior has become 'set' in a dog's mind, it can be a lot of work to overcome it. Some people choose to look the other way or blame breeding instead of properly dealing with the situation.
To be fair to the animal all medical issues must be fully explored and off the table, and then a hard look must be taken at the 'nurture' part of the equation, before throwing up one's hands and blaming 'nature.'
When it comes to rescue dogs, since we have so little information about where problems stem from that much care, and expertise must be applied to properly manage their situations.
Randa
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It is a known fact that 'nurture' counts for at least as much if not more of personality development than 'nature' in humans. This is bound to be true for dogs as well.
I think it is convenient for people to say "oh this dog was probably poorly bred and thus has bad temperament." As opposed to taking responsibility for their part in the dog's problems. Once a behavior has become 'set' in a dog's mind, it can be a lot of work to overcome it. Some people choose to look the other way or blame breeding instead of properly dealing with the situation.
To be fair to the animal all medical issues must be fully explored and off the table, and then a hard look must be taken at the 'nurture' part of the equation, before throwing up one's hands and blaming 'nature.'
When it comes to rescue dogs, since we have so little information about where problems stem from that much care, and expertise must be applied to properly manage their situations.
Randa
I don't think that it is a "known fact" how much behavior is attributable to nuture vs. nature in any species. That is still a hotly debated subject in the world of psychology, and animal behavior.
I didn't intend to imply that bad behavior is exclusively the fault of bad breeding, I would NEVER suggest such a thing. But I can confidently say there are SOME dogs out there, where the breeders and owners have done everything right, and the dog still just has a challenging temperament. It isn't anybody's fault…it just happens sometimes....just like people with challenging temperament.
But I certainly agree, that regardless of why or how, people need to get qualified, experienced help when they find that they have a challenging dog on their hands. Being a trainer by profession, it wouldn't make any sense for me to say 'well, the dog has a bad temperament, nothing can be done'...and I never meant to come across as if that would be acceptable.
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I wouldn't even say "nuture vs nature"…it's not really an either/or situation but an interplay between the two. As long as we are making suggestions for reading material, the following is a good read if you have the time...it illustrates many examples from the animal world.
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I would have suggested:
in reference to nature vs nurture especially in regards to basenjis.
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I never suggested that "humanization" was the only factor in aggressive canine behavior. It has been shown, however, to have an impact if the animal is not dealt with in a manner that makes it clear where it stands in pack order with regard to humans. IMO, the best way to do this is by using the animal's own language to tell it.
It's the method I used to train my cats. Cats and dogs don't speak human. They have their own languages respectively. If we take the time to learn it, our jobs as leaders of said animals is greatly simplified. It may be as basic as making sure your dog knows he or she is lower in pack order by eating before the animal does.
I do concede it is true that some dogs, by nature of their breeding, are more aggressive than others. In these cases, treating them as if they are human is not appropriate.
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@AJs:
I never suggested that "humanization" was the only factor in aggressive canine behavior. It has been shown, however, to have an impact if the animal is not dealt with in a manner that makes it clear where it stands in pack order with regard to humans. IMO, the best way to do this is by using the animal's own language to tell it.
It's the method I used to train my cats. Cats and dogs don't speak human. They have their own languages respectively. If we take the time to learn it, our jobs as leaders of said animals is greatly simplified. It may be as basic as making sure your dog knows he or she is lower in pack order by eating before the animal does.
I do concede it is true that some dogs, by nature of their breeding, are more aggressive than others. In these cases, treating them as if they are human is not appropriate.
Hi AJ,
You will find that lots of us here don't adhere to the theory that dog training revolves around adhering to strict pack order in dogs. There is research out there that describes pack order in domestic dogs as much more flexible and ambient than it is in wolves; and therefore more confusing than helpful, particuarly with dogs with behavioral problems. Of course humans in the family should be seen as the leader(s) in the eyes of the dog….but there is much debate as to whether eating before the dog has any benefit...consistancy and boundary setting is much more vital.
That being said, there are lots of different training philosophies that have sucess with different types of dogs. And I agree that finding a way to communicate with the dog that makes sense to the dog, is the best way to proceed with any training
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Quercus:
This is what I enjoy about these forums: There are so many differing opinions and everyone seems comfortable in sharing them. I'm not being sarcastic…I truly mean this.
As with everyone else here, I draw on experience which has worked consistently for me.
Have a great day!
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I am with you 100% Belinda (AJs Human).
Rita Jean
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This has been a great topic, I have enjoyed reading the responses. Ok for our houshold, no birthday parties, both my dogs are rescue and I don't even know their specifc birthday. I haven't picked a date to celebrate, there is no special food or treats. Does one of my dogs lay in my lap or beside me on the couch. Yes. because I have invited them. Does this humanize them NO, because as much as we like to say Basenjis are a primitive breed, we still have domisticated them to a degree which means they enjoy the company of the humans. For our household that company is hands on, petting snuggling and affection. Do I sometime talk silly to my dogs, YES. Not because I think they understand, it is simple an interaction. Yes on special holiday occassion will dress up my dogs if they will tolerate it, but only for public interaction. The costume,bandana etc. is a familar thing and adults and children who are uncertain around a strange animal brings a comfort level to the situation. For Halloween my husband enjoys decorating the outside of our house. (we are the talk of the neighborhood, I've had people bring their children just to have pics at my house) So I pass out candy with my dogs on the steps. My dogs in costume relax the intimidated children and the dogs get a pat on the head and gain socialization skill around people they don't know, which helps build their confidence level. I think most of this humanziation issue, is brought about by small group of people who go overboard and really think that the dog (animal) is human. Yes those people have a psycological problem.
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I think that if they are not hurting anybody than it doesn't really bother me. I do believe that costumes are a bit ridiculous but I put coats on my dog and that serves more as a function against bad weather. What bothers me is when people use dogs as an accessory rather than a pet. For example your Paris Hilton types who put there dog in a purse and carry them around like an accessory and put diamond necklaces on them.
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Very interesting posts..well worth thinking about.
Me, I don't dress my dog, or do dog play dates, but I do take them on vacation with me when I can.
Why, cause I like their company! Laugh. -
@AJs:
I never suggested that "humanization" was the only factor in aggressive canine behavior. It has been shown, however, to have an impact if the animal is not dealt with in a manner that makes it clear where it stands in pack order with regard to humans. IMO, the best way to do this is by using the animal's own language to tell it.
It's the method I used to train my cats. Cats and dogs don't speak human. They have their own languages respectively. If we take the time to learn it, our jobs as leaders of said animals is greatly simplified. It may be as basic as making sure your dog knows he or she is lower in pack order by eating before the animal does.
I do concede it is true that some dogs, by nature of their breeding, are more aggressive than others. In these cases, treating them as if they are human is not appropriate.
AJ's human, Do you really mean body language when you suggest learning the animals language? I do agree that if we pay attention to certain body language and habits that our pets appear to have, we do develop at least in a limited sense the ability to understand when something might be bothering them, or they need something from us. Sometimes it takes a bit to figure out what they are after, but I think owners who pay attention to detail and repetitive behavior can usually figure out what their Basenji or other pet might be after. I certainly wish I could learn to speak dog. It would make my pets life and my life so much easier, and I could also earn a lot of money as an animal behaviorist or phycologist.
Jason
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AJ's human, Do you really mean body language when you suggest learning the animals language? I do agree that if we pay attention to certain body language and habits that our pets appear to have, we do develop at least in a limited sense the ability to understand when something might be bothering them, or they need something from us. Sometimes it takes a bit to figure out what they are after, but I think owners who pay attention to detail and repetitive behavior can usually figure out what their Basenji or other pet might be after. I certainly wish I could learn to speak dog. It would make my pets life and my life so much easier, and I could also earn a lot of money as an animal behaviorist or phycologist.
Jason
Not to belittle the issue at hand….but Dr. Doolittle (the original, w/ Rex Harrison) was one of my favorite movies growing up. Ahhh... if only....."I could talk to the animals....". That being said, I think you are right about the body language, ComcDom1. That is probably the best indicater of upcoming behavior in any breed (or other animals, including humans). It is the irresponsible pet owner that doesn't take the time to learn these signs that usually ends up with trouble. Personally, I took knowledge from my job with, sometimes, unstable and dangerous humans, and used it (as far as body language) to help when i got my first B. Learning to read the signs has saved me a world of hurt (physical and mental), both at work and with my Bs.:)
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Body language is important. Learning how to use eye contact and tone of voice is important too. For instance: If you speak to your dog in a high pitched tone, it indicates excitement and that your are pleased with them…If you lower your tone, especially when they've done something you are unhappy about, they recognize this easier than the words themselves. At least that's been my experience.
Dogs (and cats) use so many communication methods...it's a matter of working with your own dog (or cat.) There are other subtle methods I use and AJ seems to respond to my cues rather well. Again, I have different requirements than other pet people.
Zest's person could probably help too, having looked at her agility trials.
