Hi jetred,
From your post a year ago… this is exactly the type of information I'm searching for, "I know this might not be survivable for her but I can't find any advice on how to get a dog through cancer, what to look out for, when is she truly in pain, what spindle cell does over time and when is enough for her and time to set her free."
So I am wondering, what was your plan with Luna? How did you make decisions? What information did you learn that you think is important to know about the spindle cell cancer disease process?
I have a 15 yr old girl (aussie shepard mix) who is in good spirits, enjoys slow short walks, putting her nose in the wind, eating, etc all normally. We've had two surgeries already to debulk the tumor on her rear leg. One in 2013, and the second recently in June from which she recovered well for her age. Though it returned quickly (3 mos) and larger this time. It's now an open lesion. I am both astounded and perplexed at how she acts pretty normal given this! My vet (who is a new vet to us as I just moved) initially discussed end of life decisions and then also offered amputation as an option to consider. I would so appreciate any thoughts you have and/or hear more about your story.
Thank you.
Can't hold it anymore - new fancy crate - will Lenny pee in it too?
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Well I think Tayda has progressed in her Fanconi to the point where she can no longer hold it in the crate for 8 hours while I am at work. She showed signs of a UTI so I got her on some antibiotics… she is no longer having accidents in the house when I am there, or peeing frequently in small amounts (indications to me that she has a UTI). But, she is drinking and peeing a lot more in general and I think she is just to the point of her Fanconi where she can't hold it for 8 hours anymore. I have come home to a wet crate for ~8 out of the last 10 days. But, she holds it throughout the night in bed w/ me for 8-10 hours no problem.
I'm going to get Tayda and Lenny (they share a crate during the day - HATE to be separated, I tried it already) a floor grid for their crate so that I can put towels underneath. See pic. That way when she pees they won't have to stand in it all day. She has actually been pretty sneaky about peeing in the crate. Right now, I have a few towels down and then a dog bed on top of it. when I check for wetness when I get home, it seems she gets under the dog bed and pees on the towel underneath (cleverl little thing). So I'm hoping if I put towels underneath the floor grid, and a big dog bed on top of it, she will do the same thing, except the pee will go onto the towels and she will stay dry.
My question is... will this teach Lenny it's ok to pee in the crate also?
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Maybe you should consider a crate for each, put side by side?
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yep, thats what I tried… actually, they were still in the SAME crate - it was a huge one with a divider in the middle. They went nuts. They like to sleep on top of one another.
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yep, thats what I tried… actually, they were still in the SAME crate - it was a huge one with a divider in the middle. They went nuts. They like to sleep on top of one another.
Sounds JUST like Jazz and Keoki….well, Keoki. Jazz would be content in her own crate; Keoki cannot have ANYTHING separating them. He flips out.
How long ago was she dx'd? Seems it was very recent
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do they have access to water inside the crate all day? It might be better to have water out only when you're home so you can take her out if she shows signs.
But I don't know if it's important for Fanconi B's to be able to drink alot of water whenever they need it…is it? -
Fanconis makes the dogs body demand water.
Think of yourself at work at 7am and not be able to have water until 6 pm. -
I don't think it will teach him to pee in the crate unless he absolutely has to. Most Bs would rather go outside, IME.
Is the floor a grate? I can't really tell. You may want to make sure the gauge is small enough that it won't hurt their feet…but it seems like a great solution.
I sure am sorry to hear that she is already showing symptoms....hugs....
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How long ago was she dx'd? Seems it was very recentShe was just diagnosed this past November… it's only been about 6 months...
The grates are 0.5 inches by 3 inches each. I plan to put a large dog bed in there with them... so they will mostly be standing/laying on the bed so that should protect their feet.
Yeah, I didn't used to keep a bowl of water in their crate, but ever since she was diagnosed, I keep a bowl in there for her to drink. I don't think she really drinks it while I'm gone though.. usually the water is still there when I get home. Lenny won't drink it either. But it's in there if she decides she wants it.
I don't think Lenny has ever joined in on the crate peeing... I say this because Taydas urine is very dilute and really has no smell to it. I think if Lenny peed also it would really stink up the place.
The floor grate thing will arrive in a week or so hopefully so I'll report back with how it goes!
In the meantime I have another question about feedings... will go post it now...
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I think it is very important that a Fanconi affect has access to as much water as they want…. even in Dr. Gonto's protocol he makes a point to have fresh water available 24/7
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How common is it for such symptoms to occur so early?
I may have misunderstood him, but I thought Bryan had told me that Jazzy's dam, who was dx'd four years ago is only just now having some incontinence problems when she sleeps.Is there an norm? or is it totally random depending on the dog?
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The severity of the symptoms vary from dog to dog.
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Without intending any disrespect - i wouldnt expect a dog of any breed - healthy or otherwise - to be in a crate for 8 hours a day and not pee. I also agree with the others that restricting water is not a good idea. I appreciate that if its a change in here behaviour then you would be worried about escalation of her symptoms - but it is a long time imo.
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Adult basenjis can usually hold it for 8 hours without soiling their crate. As was posted this is a change in Tayda's normally clean crate routine.
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Without intending any disrespect - i wouldnt expect a dog of any breed - healthy or otherwise - to be in a crate for 8 hours a day and not pee. I also agree with the others that restricting water is not a good idea. I appreciate that if its a change in here behaviour then you would be worried about escalation of her symptoms - but it is a long time imo.
This is one cultural difference we have found in Europe vs. the US. It is very common here for people to crate their dogs during the day while they are at work. The dogs do fine with it, they sleep most of the day whether they are on your couch, or in their crate. Pups usually need a mid-day potty break, but my adults can usually hold it 10 hours if they must (but we rarely run into that situation).
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Gotta agree with Lisa & Andrea…my 2 adults are in their crates 8 hours (mon - thurs) while I work and they don't soil their crates. When I'm home on the weekend, many times if it is raining I've seen them sleep longer than 8 hours...and they don't have accidents in the house.
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When it is raining, I swear they can hold it to infinity and beyond.:p
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Ain't that the truth…mine know that if they open an eye, I'll take them out, so they sleep and hold it.
I used to have a pet sitting/house sitting business and one of the chocolate labs I took care of absolutely hated the rain. Even when I would make her go out, she wouldn't go to the bathroom...she went 2 full days without peeing or pooping one weekend (and never ever had accidents in the house). Crazy.
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I had reservations about keeping them in the crate that long at first also, when I only had Tayda. When she proved herself to be trustworthy I put a camera on her while I went out and left her out of the crate, w/ the door open. I came back, watched the tape and found that she spent most of the time in the crate anyway. literally. So when i got Lenny, I crated them together and they are just fine. Lenny would definitely get into things when I'm away… I'd rather have a crated B then come back to an electrocuted B who decided to chew on some cords or something. Anyway, this is another topic. I do wish I could trust them both loose in the house though.
I had a mental/emotional breakdown this morning. Tayda runs away from me now because she knows she is going to get the pills. She ran away this morning and when I went to get her she had peed a little. Is it still a UTI or did she pee out of anxiety? She won't eat anything that I feed her - although she will eat what my boyfriend puts down (even though its the same food). She also keeps spitting out the pills when I give them to her. It's heartbreaking. I need to find a new way. I might just get a pill popper and see if that works. I'd be afraid it would be too tramautic for her, but if I can use it once or twice and have the pills be down, rather than fight with her for 20 minutes - I guess that is better. She's only 6 years old. This totally sucks.
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Michelle…. so sorry that you are having problems with Tayda... I would guess that the "little" pee was/is stress related... and I know how hard it is when they run from you when it is time for pills... My Maggii did that with her pills (not for Fanconi, but other old age problems).
My good friend Parry has the same problem with his Jaadii when he starting spilling. First he hid the pills in food, but Jaadii quickly figured out that and refused to eat or totally picked through searching for pills. They (Parry and Jaadii) came to an understanding... Parry would shove the pills down him and not hide them in food... Jaadii resigned to that, but went back to eating.....
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Thanks Pat,… I decided a few weeks ago that I would not call her name and have her come to me and have her "reward" be having pills shoved down her throat. I could tell she was starting to hesitate when I called her name. So I now just get the pills ready and go find her and pill her where ever she is. The pilling method i was using has worked for about a month but I guess I need to figure something else out.
As Andrea said (in a different thread), it would also probably help to separate pilling and feeding times... I will try that. She seems to be more interested in food in the afternoon evenings so maybe I can feed her at 4:30 when I get home from work and again at 11pm before I go to sleep. And pilling times can be 7am and 7pm. I'll see how that works. Sigh....
Please don't yell at me - she is my dog and I love her and I'm committed to keeping her healthy for as long as she lives... but from a selfish standpoint - - I'm SOO frustrated that my quality of life (outside of the dogs) has to suffer also. It was really hard before when they were both healthy to find someone I trusted to watch them. Now I just feel so tethered to her because of all of this that I can't see any way that we could ever go on vacation. Traveling used to be a HUGE hobby of mine. But now I just can not bear the thought of leaving her. I'd be out of my mind with worry. I have to go to Wisconsin for work in July for 2 weeks and BF is going to come for a weekend so I can meet his host family (he was an exchange student long ago)... so I'm going to DRIVE 1000 miles from Connecticut to Wisconsin and bring the dogs with me. I mean, this is just ridiculous. Sigh....:(
