Aggression to another female.
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wrote on 3 Mar 2009, 02:03 last edited by
I will. Thank you for being so kind and unjudgemental. Today, I've been taking walks with the both of them; one on each side where they can't reach each other. When Lady tries to growl, I pull her against my leg and say "Ssshhhhsstttt" like that Dog Whisperer guy does. She's growling less during walks already. The other thing that I've noticed while watching them is that Lady is MUCH less likely to be aggressive when she thinks I'm not watching (when I'm inside and they are outside). So, maybe she's jealous of attention Raven gets from me? Also, I think I'm going to leave them outside in the evenings until it's time to eat and go to bed. We get a lot of people walking by, animals, and other things to investigate, and they seem to be investigating things together like a pack would.
I don't think I would try that… leaving them outside together.... with people and other dogs walking by.. that is a clear sign to "jump" the one that is close.... been there, done that ...
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wrote on 3 Mar 2009, 02:24 last edited by
I would never leave these two dogs together outside unsupervised. Things going on outside the fence can quickly turn into displaced aggression and once you have a full blown fight (think blood, stitches), it can be very difficult (perhaps impossible) to put them back together.
Also, I'm not sure what the "sssstttt" is suposed to do. (Don't have cable; don't watch CM) Is it a correction? Correcting a dog from growling can backfire.
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wrote on 3 Mar 2009, 03:56 last edited by
Please, while the dogs are together, I feel you need to be there to watch them.
They migh react and need you to brake it up.
So, do keep watch on them when they are together. -
wrote on 3 Mar 2009, 17:12 last edited by
Correcting a dog from growling can backfire.
Can you explain this more? I'm not sure why I would just allow growling to happen and not correct it. Surely that isn't what you are suggesting? Should I not say anything but instead remove Lady from the situation when she growls or something like that?
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wrote on 3 Mar 2009, 17:29 last edited by
Growling is a signal that a dog is uncomfortable and is trying to make the thing that is making them uncomfortable move away from them. If they are not allowed to growl when they are uncomfortable then they will often escalate to the next level signal that they would like more distance from that thing which is usually a snap or bite. The more a dog is corrected for lower level distance increasing signals the more they will escalate.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 00:20 last edited by
Ok, I can see how that would make sense. The girls seem to be a bit better today. I didn't see them escalate into any fights today, and I spent quite a bit of time with them. Also, when I was playing fetch with Raven, Lady was acting like she wanted to play. She would run toward the toy with Raven, but then turn away when Raven got to it first. I always went up to her and petted her and got all excited that she was being good and playful with Raven. Also, I have started only giving them their milk bones when they both come to me and sit on command. They will do this every single time without getting upset. I do not ever give them treats at any other time and always feed meals separately. I also do not let them in the house together. I think the close quarters gets Lady stressed out. They are only allowed in the house one at a time except for at night, when Raven is crated.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 01:25 last edited by
I am assuming that Raven is larger, and Lady is definitely being dominant and showing Raven that SHE is the boss. The best defense is a good offense. When you walk them together and demonstrate that indeed YOU are the boss, they are better with each other. I think you are on the right track, making them obey you for treats, and keep them in situations where they are not likely to fight and they may work out a playful relationship.
Anytime a new dog is introduced, same or opposite sex, it can take a few weeks for the dogs to work out their pack order. Once that is established, often the tension diminishes.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 02:05 last edited by
I am assuming that Raven is larger, and Lady is definitely being dominant and showing Raven that SHE is the boss.
You are so right! Lady weighs 25 pounds, while Raven weighs 70. I can see why we only had this problem with her and our little dog for a day or two. I think she may feel very intimidated by her large size. I wanted to let you all know that Raven is starting to back off when Lady growls at her. I hope she continues doing that!
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 03:47 last edited by
lvoss said that better than I could have!
hopefully things will continue to look up. I had a female basenji and a female lab for many, many years. Of course we go the lab as a puppy and the basenji was about a year at the time, but they always got along great.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 14:58 last edited by
Most of the time, things are pretty calm. However, my dh was letting the girls out this morning and he tried to pick up Lady and she growled at him. She was probably on alert from being in such close proximity to Raven though. I wasn't here, so I didn't see it.
Also, this morning Lady vomited in the kitchen. There is a small, maybe 2 foot wide space between the table and the wall. That's where she was when she did it. Anyway, Raven ran over there and shoved her out of the way to lap it up. yuck Anyway, Lady just walked off and didn't even raise the hair on her back. I thought it was a fight for sure. I'm pretty optimistic. Lady is playing more and flipping out less, although we are of course still very careful.
This morning I heard all this barking and this HUGE commotion outside. I just knew they were tearing each other up so I ran outside. Nope, a stray cat came inside the fence and they were chasing it out.
Ok, one more thing I'm confused about. After the cat incident, Lady dug up a rawhide that she had buried. She went to sit down with it and Raven was acting a bit interested. Lady sat the rawhide on the ground and started growling. I didn't say anything. Raven just sat down and didn't bother her at all. Then, Lady just walked away from the darn thing and let Raven have it. I can't figure that one out at all.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 16:50 last edited by
Most of the time, things are pretty calm. However, my dh was letting the girls out this morning and he tried to pick up Lady and she growled at him. She was probably on alert from being in such close proximity to Raven though. I wasn't here, so I didn't see it.
Also, this morning Lady vomited in the kitchen. There is a small, maybe 2 foot wide space between the table and the wall. That's where she was when she did it. Anyway, Raven ran over there and shoved her out of the way to lap it up. yuck Anyway, Lady just walked off and didn't even raise the hair on her back. I thought it was a fight for sure. I'm pretty optimistic. Lady is playing more and flipping out less, although we are of course still very careful.
This morning I heard all this barking and this HUGE commotion outside. I just knew they were tearing each other up so I ran outside. Nope, a stray cat came inside the fence and they were chasing it out.
Ok, one more thing I'm confused about. After the cat incident, Lady dug up a rawhide that she had buried. She went to sit down with it and Raven was acting a bit interested. Lady sat the rawhide on the ground and started growling. I didn't say anything. Raven just sat down and didn't bother her at all. Then, Lady just walked away from the darn thing and let Raven have it. I can't figure that one out at all.
That one's easy. Lady was saying "it's mine unless I SAY you can have it." Typical dominance thing, putting Raven in her place once again.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 17:01 last edited by
Of course! That makes perfect sense. Thanks.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 17:40 last edited by
Also, I'm not sure what the "sssstttt" is suposed to do. (Don't have cable; don't watch CM) Is it a correction? Correcting a dog from growling can backfire.
I'm not sure how CM is using it but many people use it as a distraction, to break a dog's focus off of another dog. Once the dog's focus is broken it will start to relax and then you can praise it for ignoring the other dog.
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 18:24 last edited by
I'm not sure how CM is using it but many people use it as a distraction, to break a dog's focus off of another dog. Once the dog's focus is broken it will start to relax and then you can praise it for ignoring the other dog.
I think that's right. I didn't know how to explain it. It's not like yelling or anything like that. It kind of gently diverts their attention I guess?
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wrote on 4 Mar 2009, 21:01 last edited by
I'm not sure how CM is using it but many people use it as a distraction, to break a dog's focus off of another dog. Once the dog's focus is broken it will start to relax and then you can praise it for ignoring the other dog.
He initially pairs it with a jerk on the dog's neck…and then later, all he needs to do is "ssstt" and has the dog's attention.
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wrote on 5 Mar 2009, 02:56 last edited by
I tend to like Victoria Stilwell over CM if we are referring to TV trainers. She dealt with several examples of dog-dog aggression on her show and was able to ease tensions between the dogs. No neck jerks. However, I believe in most but if not all of the more severe cases when the dogs occupied the same home, she cautioned the owners not to leave the two unsupervised.
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wrote on 6 Mar 2009, 00:11 last edited by
Agh, I just wrote this long paragraph about Lady and Raven and then my computer froze and I lost it. How frustrating. Anyway, the whole point was I've been working with them a lot and I think Lady is getting better. I have some pictures of them playing to share. They actually played tug-of-war with this toy! They both had a hold on it, Lady laid down on her back and Raven pulled her a few feet. It was SO funny. Of course they stopped when I tried to sneak in the house to get the camera.
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wrote on 6 Mar 2009, 00:53 last edited by
I tend to like Victoria Stilwell over CM if we are referring to TV trainers. She dealt with several examples of dog-dog aggression on her show and was able to ease tensions between the dogs. No neck jerks. However, I believe in most but if not all of the more severe cases when the dogs occupied the same home, she cautioned the owners not to leave the two unsupervised.
I agree….I like her a lot too!
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wrote on 6 Mar 2009, 14:52 last edited by
Ugh, never mind. They got in another fight last night just as I was letting my guard down. I'm going to have to find a new home for Lady. If she keeps picking fights, Raven is going to seriously hurt her. :(
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wrote on 6 Mar 2009, 15:01 last edited by
If Lady has been there longest, why is she the one that is going to be rehomed? You brought Raven into her home, upset her routine, and put her in a situation that she is uncomfortable.
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