@JENGOSMonkey I WAS THERE FOR '89! I was a kid, but I remember the water coming out of the swimming pool in huge waves and everything falling from the shelves! I was actually born in San Jose, but moved around a lot later LOL I hear the wildfires are more of a concern for you guys now? That's scarier than quakes for me...
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if it becomes too difficult for me to separate them, I have family without dog's who would do what it takes to help. I will surely fix him when his health even slightly starts to decline, I just want to wait til then because of how I feel about spay/neuter just to make life easier.
There is no good reason to keep him in tact… none what so ever... IMO.. and that is without even seeing him... 1. Even according to you he is undersized 2. DNA affected for Fanconi 3. He has really nothing to offer the breed as there are more then enough better conformation correct, good health, good temperaments out there for people to use... Again IMO....
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Are you keeping him intact to show? Is he from a specific line that you need to keep passing on?
If not, why wait.
If its just because you don't like the idea of fixing a boy dog, then please understand, the dog will be much happier and easier to live with once the drive to mate is over. -
To the breeders here, would you sell a female puppy to someone who had a probably affected intact male if they told you the story ahead of time? I'm just curious…especially with a chance there could be an accidental breeding.
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To the breeders here, would you sell a female puppy to someone who had a probably affected intact male if they told you the story ahead of time? I'm just curious…especially with a chance there could be an accidental breeding.
Simple answer from me… NO
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I so hope this fellow gets with quality breeders in his area and can find someone to mentor him.
We all started someplace, but to have an intact male, affected and want a female is very scary for most of us who have been around a while.
Hopefully, he will find someone who can help him see the big picture. -
If keeping him intact is a "guy thing", my husband can attest that it doesn't make any difference. Years ago we had 3 brothers that we kept intact (never bred, but what a pain at times!) because Don didn't want to 'clip' the boys. When we got Topper he was still intact and stayed that way till he was 5, and he started getting really grumpy at the park, I put my foot down and got him neutered, and in a couple of weeks he was his normal self. When we got Ed, I took him right away to get neutered and he hardly even noticed! I know neither of my boys will get testicular cancer, or kidney failure from prostate hypertrophy. So if is a 'guy thing', give it some thought, it is a very minor surgery and it will bother you more than the dog!
It's not to make life easier, it is to keep the dog healthier!
Anne in Tampa -
If keeping him intact is a "guy thing", my husband can attest that it doesn't make any difference. Years ago we had 3 brothers that we kept intact (never bred, but what a pain at times!) because Don didn't want to 'clip' the boys. When we got Topper he was still intact and stayed that way till he was 5, and he started getting really grumpy at the park, I put my foot down and got him neutered, and in a couple of weeks he was his normal self. When we got Ed, I took him right away to get neutered and he hardly even noticed! I know neither of my boys will get testicular cancer, or kidney failure from prostate hypertrophy. So if is a 'guy thing', give it some thought, it is a very minor surgery and it will bother you more than the dog!
It's not to make life easier, it is to keep the dog healthier!
Anne in TampaAnne…. Amen to that and thanks for posting that.....
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I was planning on showing Medjai. NOT for breeding purposes, but to get experience, and get used to the ring.
BUT, the way everyone is ganging up, I feel left with two options, 1) Neuter Medjai now, so that I can join the BCOA and get a bitch from a good breeder as early as next year, and 2) Not neuter Medjai, so that I can show him and get used to the ring, and not join the BCOA until I run into an issue with Medjai that will be eased by me getting him neutered.
By the way, with everyone ganging up like this (on here, and through e-mails I've received) you are making the statement, that unless you spay/neuter all tested affected Basenjis, you will not be able to purchase a good animal from a responsible breeder to show/possibly breed or become a member of the BCOA. That being said, with that stance, you may as well extend it to all carriers too, as there is Little reason to breed a carrier when there are so many clear basenjis out there.
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I don't think anyone who's commented here wants to gang up or even create "sides". They're plainly laying out for you how they receive this situation and probably hoping you'll learn from it. I believe they want you on their "side". I don't know much about how one goes about getting started in breeding but I imagine that for the first few years it's all about being open to learning from a breeder who has more experience and is willing to help you. Regarding affected vs. carrier, breeding a carrier is not ideal for obvious reasons, however, clear x carrier will still produce 50% less carriers than affected x clear.
Can't you show and collect Medjai and fix him before getting the bitch? It sounds like you have some time before getting her.
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I was planning on showing Medjai. NOT for breeding purposes, but to get experience, and get used to the ring.
BUT, the way everyone is ganging up, I feel left with two options, 1) Neuter Medjai now, so that I can join the BCOA and get a bitch from a good breeder as early as next year, and 2) Not neuter Medjai, so that I can show him and get used to the ring, and not join the BCOA until I run into an issue with Medjai that will be eased by me getting him neutered.
By the way, with everyone ganging up like this (on here, and through e-mails I've received) you are making the statement, that unless you spay/neuter all tested affected Basenjis, you will not be able to purchase a good animal from a responsible breeder to show/possibly breed or become a member of the BCOA. That being said, with that stance, you may as well extend it to all carriers too, as there is Little reason to breed a carrier when there are so many clear basenjis out there.
There are many reason to breed a carrier (to a clear only) and there could be reason to breed use sperm from an affected male (note that I said using a male only, I would never ever consider using a bitch that was shown as affected)… We have a limited gene pool and we have almost as many carriers as clears and as long as you then test those pups and if any are used for breeding you go again to a clear. It is easy in one generation to get back to clear. Obviously if there was a reason to use an affected male to a clear, you would get all carriers, but then you go to clears with that offspring and you can still get back to all clears.
BUT again as said before... you have to look at the dog and what does that dog have to offer the breed?
Learning to show should not be a reason to keep your boy in tact, especially for health reasons with being DNA for Fanconi... at least not IMO.... -
You are far from the only one with that opinion Pat. I just see things much differently from a lot of people here, as I'm sure you're aware.
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That is true, but you really are putting a health risk of your boy to the fore front… and with really no good reason for doing so... other then he is healthly now... he is not show quality (and sorry to say that without seeing current pictures, but the ones you posted just when you got him were pretty clear)... and you yourself note that he is undersized...
And other then the show ring, that is the only thing that he is restricted from competed in.. you could still lure course, do obedience, agility...And honestly, you will have a hard time every finding a responsible breeder that will place a bitch with you... and also many responsible breeder require a co-ownership on dogs/bitches that might be bred...
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Yes I am having a hard time, but I still believe it's possible, and I don't need to have full ownership of the dog right now. In the future, I would like to fully own a breeding pair of good, healthy, dogs to breed and continue to further the basenji, but it's not necessary now.
There are over 1,100 members on here, but only a couple hundred are active, and I think that is due to the major difference of opinions that people have. I just am willing to fight long and hard for my opinions.
And I apologize first for the people this may offend, but I do see there as being much more of an elitist attitude among the community of responsible basenji breeders that I don't see in many other breeds' breeders.
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Yes I am having a hard time, but I still believe it's possible, and I don't need to have full ownership of the dog right now. In the future, I would like to fully own a breeding pair of good, healthy, dogs to breed and continue to further the basenji, but it's not necessary now.
There are over 1,100 members on here, but only a couple hundred are active, and I think that is due to the major difference of opinions that people have. I just am willing to fight long and hard for my opinions.
And I apologize first for the people this may offend, but I do see there as being much more of an elitist attitude among the community of responsible basenji breeders that I don't see in many other breeds' breeders.
It may help to remember that the opinions of the breeders and long-time owners/showers on the list are borne of years and years of experience and experiences.
They have learned what it takes to produce healthy, quality dogs; they have seen the results of spay/neuter vs not spay/neuter, accidental breedings, behavioral difficulties. They have been through years of learning the ins and outs of Basenji physical and mental health.Not to knock your efforts or opinions, but you are only 21 and this is your first Basenji. Might not hurt to not form your opinions in concrete just yet, but to let education, experience,and time form them more fully.
Responsible breeders of any breed care deeply and are passionate about their breed and the practices that accompany breeding. If you run into breeders that are not, you may want to look elsewhere to find a quality program.
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Other breeds aren't dealing with Fanconi and while not everyone shares the same viewpoint, I think everyone agrees that within a few generations this disease can and should be eradicated from the breed.
While your opinion differs and you have a right to that opinion and what you do with your dog, remember that you always have to deal with the consequences of your actions.
If it's a guy thing…you really should get over it. If you want to show Medjai and he isn't show quality, my question is why spend the time and money to get nowhere? It costs more then a few dollars and you aren't going to get all the experience you need from one or two times in the ring. It's an ongoing learning process and each dog will be different. Why a female as your next dog? Why not start with a show quality male? There shouldn't be a need to rush into breeding any dogs of any breed.
I really don't think you'll EVER find a good breeder out there that will give an unknown person a breeding bitch with a "probably" affected intact male that was purchased from a backyard breeder. That's just the way it is. You need to sit back and think of what it is you want and may have to change your way of thinking to get it.
And that's just my opinion!
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thanks for all your thoughts, back from the phone. I was looking to get a female because they should be a year or two older than the male to mate, and at least with my parents huskies, an older female gets along better with a younger male than vice verse.
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I do believe the bitches should be around 3 before they're bred…someone correct me if I'm wrong on the age.. but they can mate with an older dog.
As far as getting along...Although a different breed, my first vizsla, a female was younger then Dakota, my first b, a male and they got along..were best buddies in fact. Marlowe came after Shawn died young with Dakota, then 9 and they were fine. Chey had Marlowe, then 3 and Dakota 12 , and they all did fine. Apache came in with Chey 2 and Marlowe 5, and except for Apache getting a bit snotty with Marlowe on occasion they all get along fine. I think that all has to do in how you introduce them and deal with any problems that may arise.
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Most responsible breeders will wait till the bitch is 3 to breed, they have to be at least 2 to have the hips done… and most breeders look for an older male to breed to... at least I do... I don't want in my breeding dogs that are only 5 or 6 yrs old in the first three generations... I like to see age... shows health... My one litter was sired by a 14 yr old... and while one of my litters the sire and dam were the same age of 4, their parents were older at 7 and (sire died at 16) on the bitch side and on the sire side I think it was like 9 and 11
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Yes I am having a hard time, but I still believe it's possible, and I don't need to have full ownership of the dog right now. In the future, I would like to fully own a breeding pair of good, healthy, dogs to breed and continue to further the basenji, but it's not necessary now.
There are over 1,100 members on here, but only a couple hundred are active, and I think that is due to the major difference of opinions that people have. I just am willing to fight long and hard for my opinions.
And I apologize first for the people this may offend, but I do see there as being much more of an elitist attitude among the community of responsible basenji breeders that I don't see in many other breeds' breeders.
And you think that is a bad thing? That Basenji breeders take breeding seriously? And being a responsible breeder is a bad thing? Elitist how? because responsible breeders believe in health testing and not just selling puppies on open registration to just anyone? I think that if you really found responsible breeders in every breed you will find the same concerns and the same attitudes. In every breed you can find BYB's and responsible breeders…
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I do so hope you listen to what these breeders are telling you.
I don't see it as picking on your or being elitist.
I think they are trying to help you learn.
Hope you see that this boy might be wonderful for you, but not an asset to the basenji breed as a whole.
I am not a breeder, but I love my dogs and I know you feel the same way.
I really think you need to get to meet some of the breeder in your area and see what they can teach you.
We all had to start somewhere and learn.
I would assume when you breed your litter with your name on them, you would want the very best quality basenjis you can produce.
That will take time and learning…
