Thank you all for your useful tips. Through this trial and error process I have found that crating them has been very helpful. I guess it is there safe place.
Adolescent howl and behavior changes
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@zande
Do you let them roam out of sight? I'm wondering if eventually I can do that once I've firmly established the whistle and "come" commands so that he returns from being out of sight quickly. At this point, he eventually comes, but I see him dawdle or continue chasing this or that squirrel. I'd like to see him respond immediately, and I'm thinking that is a personal training choice. -
@sanjibasenji 'Roam' is hardly the word - sprint, race - disappear like magic. Yes. In the wood I follow narrow paths and they follow wherever a scent leads them. I know the direction they have disappeared in but seldom guess correctly from whence they will emerge. They could have done a complete circuit and come up behind me.
The important thing is that my whistle is sharp and piercing and they know it means, Mom wants us back.
If it is raining or desperately muddy (I use a walking pole because I don't want to fall over !) then I may be forced to follow the main trails which are wider and some are even kind of cobble-stones. It is a working forest and there has to be access for huge trucks to bear away the timber - enormous piles of logs by the side of the main routes through.
Weekends, like this morning, the carpark is full by 10 am but once away from it it is possible to avoid meeting anyone. On weekdays, there are quite a few people we have come to know over the years, 8.30 - 9.00 am walkers. Many of them I know the names of the dogs and have no idea what their owners are called ! My boys love to chase with the ones they know will oblige and we can stand and chat while they race around. I only learned on Thursday, after standing while a man with about a dozen Whippets admired my boys, that one is prohibited from walking more than 6 dogs at a time.
Didn't know that when Marvin and I walked those same woods back in 1987 after a hurricane decimated woodland in the South East.
I have been going there for a long, long time - it is entirely safe from traffic, once you are away from the carpark. The wild-life is rabbits, deer, squirrels and birds (Kito would love to fly !) and so yes, the boys know that if Mom sits on a fallen tree or one of the rare benches, they get a treat. 'Biscuit at the Bench' is something they have learned and they foregather and stay close, waiting for me to arrive at these havens !
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Some thoughts:
I've been looking at the rules for dogs in the U.K. and they are quite different from those we have here. Off leash is much more accepted there, but it is specified that the dog or dogs must be under the control of the owner and also that they should be in sight of the owner, a stipulation that is likely more honoured in the breach than the observance. Another thing that jumped out at me is that there is a colour (yellow) to indicate a dog that needs space. Excellent idea! There is a prohibition against chasing deer "or other wildlife", and of course livestock. I haven't looked exhaustively at forest sites, but the ones I checked seemed to be in agreement. One interesting suggestion, that you let your dog loose if you are attacked by farm animals, surprised me but is logical. A person could be injured trying to protect a dog from aggressive cattle or horses (both will often go after dogs, or in my area coyotes).
In Ontario many (most?) forested areas and parks open to the public require dogs to be on leash unless in designated areas (usually fenced, like a dog park), which are rather few and far between. Of course many owners ignore this rule and it is unlikely to be enforced unless there are incidents. When I was young, even the cities didn't have leash laws, but there has always been a requirement for dogs to be under the control of their owner when they are off their own property. These days I find far more people do not have a reliable recall than those who do, which is unfortunate. Nothing worse than someone's out of control pup running towards your dog aggressive animal that you have securely on leash, with the owner coming behind bellowing "It's O.K., he's friendly"! My Perry was seriously dog aggressive, so I would immediately recall him if I saw an approaching dog, but I sometimes had to resort to picking him up so the other dog didn't get in his face. If your dog is loose I think it is only good manners to call him in if you are approaching a dog on leash. Even those that are not aggressive may feel threatened and respond accordingly, because they are not free to stay away from the other dog.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm Well done for looking it all up ! Some of the laws are relatively new, brought in by off-shoots of the ban on fox hunting. The law says you may not actively hunt with dogs, which I take to mean, go out specifically with the idea of catching something.
btw, I reckon my dogs are under control ! Far more so than many, although everyone we meet has their recall pretty solid.
This is a farming community and also pheasants are bred for the 'gentry' to shoot. No way would I allow my dogs onto farm land with sheep or cattle and while the poults are being reared, Sue doesn't take hers or mine into the woods with the pens. The gamekeeper is very friendly but better safe than sorry.
The chances of a Basenji actually catching a deer are so slim - although we do come across legs and bits left by something's kill.
Yes I did know about yellow meaning keep your dog off mine - or else ! and yes, about releasing a dog if it was on a leash when one was attacked. NOT, I hasten to add, that I would take a dog that close. Although during the first lock down when the carparks to all Forestry Commission forests were closed and I was restricted to training Mku on the many Public Footpaths around this village, we did have some hilarious encounters. Hoover was a great help in training him and he has helped me train Kito.
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@zande said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
I reckon my dogs are under control ! Far more so than many, although everyone we meet has their recall pretty solid.
Oh, I have no doubt about that! IMO it is too bad that few people take the time to teach their dogs a reliable recall, and that the opportunities to give a dog off leash time is limited where I live. I think a dog that is accustomed to being loose is far less likely to be at risk if he accidentally gets out the door or off the leash. It's the ones that have never been off leash that play "keep away" and scare the daylights out of their frantic owners.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@zande said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
yellow meaning keep your dog off mine - or else !
Explain this a little better for me, please. Are you supposed to use a yellow t-shirt, collar, leash?
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@eeeefarm said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
I think a dog that is accustomed to being loose is far less likely to be at risk if he accidentally gets out the door or off the leash.
Exactly.
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@zande Awesome, thank you!
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I've posted this before, but more than once I had a "senior moment" and opened the door for Perry before putting his e-collar on. Every time all I had to do was say "Perry, you forgot your collar" and he came right back and was happy to have me fix the problem so we could get on with our walk. He associated the collar with being off leash, so he was always happy when I put it on before we went out.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
"Perry, you forgot your collar" and he came right back and was happy to have me fix the problem so we could get on with our walk.
How did you train him to walk off leash (but on collar)? Details, please.... this seems like the best of both worlds!
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@elbrant said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
How did you train him to walk off leash (but on collar)? Details, please.... this seems like the best of both worlds!
You might have misunderstood. I was referring to his e-collar which ensured I could "reach out and touch him" at a distance if needed. In practice I used it far more often for "leave it" than for recall, and it was extremely useful when he was ranging upwind and couldn't hear me. It enabled me to get his attention, and then I could use hand signals to tell him what I wanted.
These collars get a bad rap because they can be abusive if used inappropriately. There is no question you can give the dog a painful correction, but that should be reserved for emergencies and is a lot better than having your dog run out into traffic! (or getting skunked for that matter). For me it was a matter of being able to control my dog at a distance if necessary, and he was never afraid of the collar, despite being well aware that it was the source of those sensations when I did use it.
As for how to train with an e-collar, the short answer is that you find the dog's working level (the lowest setting at which he notices the stimulation), let him wander around on a long leash, then turn on the collar while reeling him in with the leash, turning the collar off as he nears you. Ten minutes later after a few repeats the dog is coming immediately when you turn it on. I hasten to add, no yelping, no drama, just that he has learned how to turn off the mildly annoying sensation. Pretty quickly the dog learns to generalize the sensation's removal to compliance with what you have asked him to do.
I am well aware that this is an aversive, and not for everyone, but it did allow my Basenji freedom to run loose in a variety of settings and me to relax with confidence that his recall was solid. My very first Basenji was reliable off leash without any assistance, perhaps because I had confidence from prior experience with a lot of other dogs and she lived up to my expectations. Not all of my others have been so reliable! Obviously Zande has the magic touch with her dogs, but I guess I needed a crutch to reassure me that I wasn't putting my dog at risk by granting him freedom.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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@eeeefarm said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
t I guess I needed a crutch to reassure me that I wasn't putting my dog at risk by granting him freedom.
Ok, thank you... doodle comes at a whistle when we are roaming in the woods, but not unless she wants to once we arrive at the parking lot (car park). I had hopes that I could teach doodle to be in a loose heel while we were on a walk without the leash and without worrying about her wandering into traffic.
Dreaming, I suppose.... I know, I know, she's a Basenji!
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@elbrant said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
I had hopes that I could teach doodle to be in a loose heel while we were on a walk without the leash
Absolutely doable with a bit of work. An e-collar would get you there quicker, but if you train her to heel reliably on leash and transition gradually, you should be able to achieve it. One intermediate step you can take is to tie a very light line on her instead of the leash, so you don't completely lose control but she doesn't notice the weight. Another approach would be clicker train her to target. Many roads lead to Rome....
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@eeeefarm said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
Obviously Zande has the magic touch with her dogs, but I guess I needed a crutch to reassure me that I wasn't putting my dog at risk by granting him freedom.
@zande has 40 years experience and has owned probably 20 Basenjis over the years. Only very recently have I been down to a single dog, and that didn't last more than a couple of months until a new puppy arrived.
AT NO TIME would I put any of my 'children' at risk ! Start early enough with training and keep it up. It is not difficult.
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@zande said in Adolescent howl and behavior changes:
AT NO TIME would I put any of my 'children' at risk ! Start early enough with training and keep it up. It is not difficult.
Oh, I certainly wasn't implying that you were. I respect your experience and envy your access to good off leash areas. I agree about starting early, not so easy when you adopt a mature dog. A secure area to do your training and the ability to add distractions with care is also necessary. When I had the farm at least I had some control. Where I live currently it would be very difficult to find a safe place to train, and virtually impossible to find a "legal" place for off leash work, but since I no longer have a dog it's a moot point.
"In order to get along with a Basenji, you have to be at least half as smart as the dog!"
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