Thoughts on Spaying
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replied to DebraDownSouth on 17 Feb 2018, 17:28 last edited by GigiThis post is deleted!
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replied to Gigi on 17 Feb 2018, 20:17 last edited by
@gigi said in Thoughts on Spaying:
Both dogs ate pet store dog food back then. I know diet plays heavily into the topic of whether or not to spay. I just keep thinking back on growing up and all the dogs back then not spayed and eating table scraps and living healthier and longer. Feeling great pressure to make this decision before she goes through more heats.
I think you should give yourself a break and take the time you need to make this decision. If you hold off, you can always change your mind, but once the deed is done there is no going back.
In regards to your observations about food, I concur. I knew lots of dogs that were fed mostly table scraps or cheap dog food, or often a mixture of both, and they seemed to stay healthy longer than dogs today eating the expensive stuff! Dogs evolved as scavengers and back in the day many ate whatever was left over from the kitchen table. My girlfriend's farm dog, a mixed breed, lived past his 18th birthday on scraps and cheap kibble. Her purebred GSD managed 16 years on the same diet. My second and third Basenjis ate cheap food and lived to 16. Gotta wonder about what is happening these days when I see so many young dogs with various diseases I'd never seen before in dogs.....
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wrote on 17 Feb 2018, 22:34 last edited by
Mine get a regular diet, canned and dry food mix but they stand around on their hind legs if I am eating an apple - I want the core ! and I have to admit sometimes plates don't need washing up - the pack leaves them so clean (don't worry, I do wash up conscientiously myself as well !). I read something recently that dogs don't really relish human food scraps. Whoever wrote that hadn't met my pack. In fact, when a dog is off its food, I find feeding it on a human plate instead of a dog bowl, often gets it going again...
Hang on, don't do anything rash and irreversible. You wouldn't subject a 12 or even a 16 year old child to a hysterectomy - leave the gal entire, be vigilant but honestly, I wouldn't even look for enlarged glands on a two year old.
I am unclear why you have to make this decision at all at this age ???? -
replied to eeeefarm on 17 Feb 2018, 22:44 last edited by
@eeeefarm said in Thoughts on Spaying:
Gotta wonder about what is happening these days when I see so many young dogs with various diseases I'd never seen before in dogs.....
Could be advanced veterinary science but I do so agree with you. History has its drawbacks. When we got our first Basenji in UK - Marvin had been breeding them in USA since forever - people warned us. The dog had bad temperament in back.
Investigation showed the dog in question had been a kennel dog and that back in those days the Brits hadn't woken up to the fact that a kennel is not the place for a Basenji. This lead me to the conclusion there is inbred bad temperament and environmentally caused ditto. Same thing with health scourges - apparently appearing in younger and younger dogs ???? -
wrote on 18 Feb 2018, 00:53 last edited by
Dr k Becker is a quack. She's the dr oz of the dog world. Anyone connected to Mercola's should be taken with a grain of salt and a hot cleansing shower.
I have see specialists on both sides. What bothers me is when they give you one side, insisting that it is the ONLY choice. I'm happy to provide you with recent findings if you want more more research.
But make up your own mind.
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wrote on 18 Feb 2018, 01:46 last edited by
The good old days have a way of focusing in on things that really weren't the norm
"" Despite the differences between cats and dogs, both pets are living longer than ever before. Dog life expectancy has doubled in the past 4 decades, and housecats now live twice as long as their feral counterparts. The reasons can largely be chalked up to better health care and better diet. "" (one big part of health care for cats, dogs and even horses and cattle, is parasite control.http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2015/12/feature-dog-lives-300-years-solving-mysteries-aging-our-pets
. Dogs like Chanel and Max and cats like Granpa Rexs Allen are outside the norm, but they may be trailing indicators of an increasingly long pet lifespan. Veterinarians say it’s not unusual for some dogs and cats to reach 15 years or more, and they’re seeing more and more pets do so.
Just as the average life expectancy for people keeps reaching closer to the century mark, we’ll continue to see the same parallels in our pet population,” says Martha Smith, director of veterinary services at Boston’s Animal Rescue League.<
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/33076736/ns/health-pet_health/t/life-dog-years-many-pets-living-longer/There are some anti-breeder articles claiming purebred dogs are living shorter lives, and spay/neutered live longer. Considering a high cause of early deaths with unneutered, obviously irresponsible ownership, not possessing reproduction ability is a big factor.
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wrote on 18 Feb 2018, 13:58 last edited by
I'll have to agree to disagree on the lifespan thing. " Dog life expectancy has doubled in the past 4 decades," would love to know where they found the statistics to back that one up. If you are just looking at veterinary records, well, not all dogs go to the vet and not all owners reports deaths. As far as comparisons to lifespans fifty years or so ago, I seriously doubt there are any records. How could there be? Anecdotal evidence, perhaps. Also, "life expectancy" is not average lifespan. It has many factors. And of course house cats tend to live longer than feral cats, they don't have owls and other predators hunting them! Apples and oranges. Any improvement for pet animals, such as vaccinations, that increases the chances of making it into adulthood changes the equation. There are just too many factors in play to suggest that the pup you acquire today will outlive the one you had forty years ago. Certainly in my experience and that of most of my friends it has not been the case.
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replied to Gigi on 18 Feb 2018, 17:50 last edited by tanza
@gigi Well bred Basenjis regardless of if in-tact or spayed/neutered are healthy.... Since you have a possible mix, my thoughts are you should spay... my girl now 8 will be spayed this year as we will not be breeding her. She has hormonal issues after season every year....
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replied to DebraDownSouth on 18 Feb 2018, 22:08 last edited by GigiThis post is deleted!
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replied to DebraDownSouth on 18 Feb 2018, 22:42 last edited by GigiThis post is deleted!
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replied to Gigi on 19 Feb 2018, 01:03 last edited by
@gigi I used to believe that you should spay females that you were not going to breed, but I always let my girls have one litter. Based on the information I had at the time, I thought that females who had a litter were more protective of their home. And I never had a girl who wasn't inclined to protect home/family. But catching your girl before she goes into season and keeping her isolated is a hat trick at best. I've seen one male kill another (literally) because he wanted to win the mating game. No warning. No growling. Just a quick bite and the smaller dog was gone. 40 years later and it still grabs me.
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wrote on 19 Feb 2018, 05:20 last edited by
@gigi
Sticking with research and veterinary hospital research helps.
If they're selling goods , or for a site hauled before court to discuss his quackery, run. She has a video on vaccines saying the opposite of the true expert she claimed agreed with her.
Dr. Joseph Mercola Ordered to Stop Illegal Claims - Quackwatch
https://www.quackwatch.org › mercola -
wrote on 19 Feb 2018, 05:56 last edited by
So some good ones.
this study concentrates on dogs here and the spay/neuter life expectancy issue, including the belief here in the US by many that neutering causes more cancer. The study brings up that increase in cancer may be nothing more than the fact they actually live longer, not less.
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0061082
We found that sterilization significantly affected survival in both males ( = 446, P<10−6) and females ( = 1372, P<10−6) (Figure 1A). Sterilization increased life expectancy by 13.8% in males and 26.3% in females among the FC dogs.
It's a really interesting article.
" http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371%2Fjourna -
wrote on 19 Feb 2018, 06:11 last edited by
Interesting articles on neutering and behavior. (some same material but I found the vet's comments worth reading)
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wrote on 19 Feb 2018, 06:17 last edited by
Dr Laura, a long time friend, wrote me long ago about the need for waiting a couple of cycles with bitches who were very aggressive as pups.
Since dogs' ovaries are inactive much of the year, they generally show less detriment from lack of estrogen than people, who have constantly cycling ovaries. The only research I have seen, and I haven't seen original papers, just what is quoted from Dr. Karen Overall, is that female dogs who are dominant aggressive before they go into heat may show some reduction, or at least less progression, by going through one or two heat cycles. The current theory is that these super-dominant females were androgenized by contact with the hormones of a male pup during gestation; on rare occasions when their placentas develop some communication. those with retained ovaries will have no protection from breast cancer, will continue to cycle and create an attractive nuisance with male dogs, and are at risk for a stump pyo on the bit of remaining uterus near the cervix. The only benefit in that case would be pregnancy prevention. And, every dog I spayed who was aggressive during the heat only went to their normally sweet diestrus selves.
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