In the days before computers, I kept a book (now its all carefully entered in to special folders on the 'machine' and provides me with a complete history) - total sickness record, including jabs and innoculations (and cost of pills / treatment), of each dog. Weight at birth of puppies, ease of whelping. Onset of seasons, boys starting to react (chuddering and showing interest), date relative to onset of color of the first time the girl's tail went over. Just about every aspect of each dog is carefully logged and catalogued.
Spay timing?
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Wondering what the recommendation is on how long to wait after 1st proestrus (bleeding) to spay? I have spoken with two different vets who have made different recommendations (one says 2-3 weeks, the other says wait until December which will actually be January because we are traveling in December, and what I find online is mixed, too. Mille just finished up three weeks of bleeding on Thursday. My thought is that she would need to fully complete the estrus cycle, but don't know how long that is (and at what point she is no longer at risk for pregnancy).
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@italeigha Why do it at all ? There is no need and you have no idea of the harm you are possibly doing. Problems you are storing up for her in later life.
At least you waited till after the first season. If you MUST do it, then wait 6 months (hopefully you will have forgotten about the very idea by then).
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@italeigha - Rule of thumb with Basenjis is they are in season for 4 weeks.... and waiting 4 to 6 months before spay.
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@tanza Do you mean to wait 4-6 months after their 1st season? Or just to wait until they are 4-6 months old? She's almost 10 months old now.
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Jumping in here - 6 months after the end of the first season. I know Pat will agree.
4 - 6 months old is FAR too young. They need to reach structural and hormonal maturity before such drastic action is taken.
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@italeigha - 4 to 6 months after her season
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@zande - Yea I agree, 6 months after her season, 4 months a the very least.
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@tanza @Zande thank you. Do you have any studies you can send me to that explain this rationale? So much out there encouraging a quick spay to prevent mammary cancer.
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THAT is a myth ! @italeigha Like so much else you read on the web. I will reproduce here the excellent piece written by Liz McCargo some time ago now - it was as a result of a similar question and resulted in a conversation from which the Forum Member produced the piece. I will also quote the conclusion from that Member. I think it is clear -
posted in Basenji Health Issues & Questions 30 May 2019, 15:49 •
@zande said in Spay Early or Spay Later:
Six months is far too young.
Yes...
Thanks, everyone, for weighing in on the side of waiting. I had a nice long WhatsApp chat with Liz McCargo of Bellator Basenji's last night and even though I did not buy my pup from her, she took the time to share her thoughts, which she said I could share here. This was her original answer.“For the most part, I recommend delayed spaying and neutering in nearly all cases. For my puppy buyers I recommend waiting until 12-18 months old at the very least, ideally around 24 months old. For a majority of cases, this is best and best for the dogs. Although it means a little more management for the owners, it’s better in the long run for the lifetime of the dog.
“The best resource regarding spaying/neutering is the spay neuter booklet from puppy culture. It goes into all the nuances of why, from a scientific standpoint, and explains things a ton better than I ever could. What it boils down to is it’s better physically, emotionally, mentally, and psychologically for dogs to be allowed to fully mature before removing their sexual organs.
“The sexual organs help regulate the endocrine system which controls growth of joints, bones, organs, and the regulation of the thyroid. This is why many pets become fat after being fixed, the thyroid is negatively impacted by altering pets, and weight control becomes a bit more difficult. So with earlier spay/neuter, a dog can essentially grow disproportionately to what it was genetically designed since early removal of the sexual organs alters the dog genetically.
“So physically you may see no difference but their organs may be smaller or larger than originally designed which may lead to complications in the long run. So your dog may live to 10-12 years old, but had the potential to live to 15. We never really know the full impact as we cannot see into the future. Delayed altering can also reduce risks of many different types of cancers. The issues cited that support altering your pet are still there once you alter at a later age, so you’re not missing out on any of the benefits by waiting, but adding to the ultimate life long benefits by waiting.
“As long as a family can reasonably and responsibly contain their female when in season and contain their male apart from females in season, there’s no need for early altering. Many vets push it because it came from an era of pets breeding at their own will and resulted in many unwanted litters. In today’s day and of age of more fences and less farms, I don’t know any responsible owners who have unwanted litters.
“Most of Europe doesn’t alter their pets ever, but are able to responsibly contain them and prevent unwanted breedings. Anyway, that’s my two cents on it, the puppy culture book is a wealth of knowledge and the more educated you are, the better a standing up to pushy veterinarians.”
https://shoppuppyculture.com/products/puppy-culture-spay-neuter-booklet
So a) I will be buying the puppy culture booklet and b) will do everything in my power to keep my girl from being spayed until she is at least a year old and preferably two. Where I live is rampant with unneutered mutts but I have a secure house for her and am with her 100% of the time, so...we should do fine.
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@italeigha
I've tagged this pamphlet before so you may wish to search the forum for the link which may still work.
https://my.puppyculture.co.uk/resources/flipbook/spay-neuter-bookletIt's full of facts and studies and Liz McCargo uses it as her reference.
There's a free read-only version if you'd search: PUPPY CULTURE SPAY/NEUTER BOOKLET.
Title page attached, if allowed.
