You're welcome! 🙂 I learned that myself from research when I found out momma was pregnant.
For Sale/Waiting List Post Rules: Read First
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I am also like Andrea, before I make a decision I try to get as much information as possible. I do realize though that many people do not want to spend as much time doing the research. The purpose of a Buyer's Guide is to provide the information in a format that is accessible to the general public. It should be written so that it provides the information at a level that some one interested in a companion can make sense of. Using your example of learning about Space Travel. A scientist writing and article for other scientists will write in a different style and level then a scientist writing an article for the layperson who reads USA Today.
Telling people what questions to ask and giving a list of breeders will not tell them what answers to expect and why. I know people who have dogs who are suffering from genetic disorders who tell me, "I thought I asked the right questions" They did ask if the parents had any known problems and they were told "No, my vet says they are all healthy." They didn't know that they needed to ask for an OFA number, a CERF number, if the dog was strip tested, if the its sire and dam were. So it is not about just asking the questions, it is about knowing what a good answers is, what an ok answer is, and what a bad answer is.
Are there people who won't take the time to do their homework? Of Course! But that does not mean that a Buyer's Guide should not be created and posted so that people can find the information they need to make an educated purchase.
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Lisa, I really like the idea of a buyers guide. If we kept it simple we might be able to post it a lot of different places. And maybe even have hard copies available to breeders so when someone calls interested in puppies we can pop something in the mail to them?
Maybe this is something outreach should work on?
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Good idea!
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Yes it is a good idea for outreach…. but of course someone has to help do the work.... we have not have must support, still trying to get the FAQ's. We have posted on many of the web sites BCOA information for contact about puppies... One problem is a place like puppyfind.com has so many listings.. it is a bit difficult to compete... my personal opinion is that all responsible breeders need to flood those sites... with ads...
Sorry for the post to the Forum on this, as it might not make sense to many of you, but the Basenji Club of America has an Outreach committee to help educate people on Basenjis....
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Yes it is a good idea for outreach…. but of course someone has to help do the work.... we have not have must support, still trying to get the FAQ's. We have posted on many of the web sites BCOA information for contact about puppies... One problem is a place like puppyfind.com has so many listings.. it is a bit difficult to compete... my personal opinion is that all responsible breeders need to flood those sites... with ads...
Sorry for the post to the Forum on this, as it might not make sense to many of you, but the Basenji Club of America has an Outreach committee to help educate people on Basenjis....
(Opps that would be "had MUCH support)
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I don't disagree at all. I will be perfectly honest–please don't hate me. Most people IMO are very "now" people. If they have the choice between going to the pet store and seeing a puppy in the window and saying "oh, how cute, how much--and the pet store tells them 8 bazillion dollars" So then they go and start a search for breeders. If they would find this website and see a daunting list of things they don't really understand they may feel intimidated by their lack of knowledge and not even bother with trying. If you have the same info on the website as the petstore but a contact number as well then you get the oppurtunity as a breeder to really explain what is important. I guess I would compare it to me going to talk to someone about space travel. I know nothing about it so I would be so overwhelmed I would never attempt to really learn and just forget about it. With the pet store-it is no questions asked, I have to pay a little more but it saves me the embarrasment and frankly, the hassle.
I think I am rambling. I think it is critical for the breeder to be the teacher to the buyer and build a repor that makes them WANT to learn. I believe all of you who are on here are those people. You can, from years of experience, explain the necessity for the tests and proper breeding without being intimidating.
Tanza, you are correct, they can contact puppyfind.com or wherever but that is the difference your call can make to them.
I am a business person and I am amazed that you all breed for love of the breed and not profit. I don't get it. But I admire it.
I hope this makes some sense.
Well, I am a business person too, but breeding dogs is NOT a business it is a hobby, pure and simple… that that is way we breed for the love of the breed and not for profit, different then BYB's who claim to breed for the love of the breed, but make a profit... or of course puppymills.. who only breed for profit.
And while we need to teach.... I agree with Andrea and Lisa... the buyer needs to take responsibility for their actions... You are buying a living thing that you will be responsible for life.... why would you not educate yourself on that?... and what kind of pet is the best for your home?.... And yes, these are newer concepts from 30yrs ago... and breeders have learned that screeening buyers is necessary because if you look in some BYB and PM pedigrees your will see Ch stock from well known bloodlines.... As they say, live and learn....
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… the buyer needs to take responsibility for their actions..
Absolutely, but they don't and the dogs may end up in rescue or euthanized which I thought was the point of trying to get them to see as much info as possible prior to making the decision to buy from a pet store or puppyfind. Correct me if I am wrong.
A buyers guide is an excellent idea! Someone can call and then get info that they can read later about what they need to look for so they can ask the right questions.
I also think it is a good idea to advertise on puppyfind.
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Yes it is a good idea for outreach…. but of course someone has to help do the work.... we have not have must support, still trying to get the FAQ's. We have posted on many of the web sites BCOA information for contact about puppies... One problem is a place like puppyfind.com has so many listings.. it is a bit difficult to compete... my personal opinion is that all responsible breeders need to flood those sites... with ads...
Sorry for the post to the Forum on this, as it might not make sense to many of you, but the Basenji Club of America has an Outreach committee to help educate people on Basenjis....
Sorry, Pat…hanging head as an ashamed member of the outreach committee who hasn't yet had a chance to deal with the FAQs. The email kind of fell of my radar, but I will go back and deal with it.
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I'm sorry if I was confusing. The issue with euthanasia, rescue etc is a big problem and educating buyers is critical. I think we would all agree on that.
I am trying to figure out why someone (myself included) would buy from pet stores or puppyfind instead of going to a breeder. I believe it is convenience. So, for the potential buyer who decides to do some research elsewhere that is where I think the breeder can help. Had the breeder I contacted explained something as opposed to just saying-no, I don't have any puppies. Or even the rescue saying the same thing. (I had not heard of BRAT) I probably would have been in a different situation. I didn't know what questions to ask and I personally was bombarded by all the info online. Maybe that is just me but you asked for input from the learning side and I am definatley that.
I shouldn't put the entire burden of education on you, the breeder, that is simply not fair. So I aplogize.
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I'm sorry if I was confusing. The issue with euthanasia, rescue etc is a big problem and educating buyers is critical. I think we would all agree on that.
I am trying to figure out why someone (myself included) would buy from pet stores or puppyfind instead of going to a breeder. I believe it is convenience. So, for the potential buyer who decides to do some research elsewhere that is where I think the breeder can help. Had the breeder I contacted explained something as opposed to just saying-no, I don't have any puppies. Or even the rescue saying the same thing. (I had not heard of BRAT) I probably would have been in a different situation. I didn't know what questions to ask and I personally was bombarded by all the info online. Maybe that is just me but you asked for input from the learning side and I am definatley that.
I shouldn't put the entire burden of education on you, the breeder, that is simply not fair. So I aplogize.
Totally no reason to apologize at all….. I think that the reason that people go to pet stores is because that is how it was done for years and years... same with buying a puppy out of the newspaper. Difference now is that is lots of information on how and why to buy a puppy/companion on the web and easier to find responsible breeders "IF" you are willing to learn first and understand why they ask questions..ggg... and WHY you as the buyer should ask questions... Also I agree there is lots of conflicting information even on line.. that is why people need to take their time... I always recommend that people personally visit with someone that has Basenjis regardless of where they intend to buy. Lisa and I always "swap" people for visits... and because we don't breed often, 99% of the time the people visiting have no expectations of getting a puppy from us, so there is no pressure... just a learning experience.
As far as pet store and even newspaper ads.. I think it is "impluse" buying... I see a cute puppy, I want that cute puppy.... -
Please could you tell me why you do not allow posts in your 'For Sale' forum from outside the US/Canada.
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Hi,
am i correct in thinking that members from other countries cannot inform us if they have Puppies for sale. There are quite a few nationalities on the forum and it seems a shame.
I myself would like eventualy to find a Pup and it would be most helpful to know when litters are planned.
I think that it is a great idea to make people more aware of Dogs needing to be rescued but again maybe UK rescues and rescues in other countries wouldnt be able to use the forum.
I hope you dont think i'm being rude, i love this forum and am just saying whats on my mind. -
If a breeder and or a back yard breeder would all do there job correctly in breeding then the pet store would get a good puppy. Then the new owner would not have to worry.
Like when you buy a new car that has been out in model year for 3 or 4 months DO ANY OF YOU ever ask questions has this car had recalls and how many and what were they? Did you do your homework.
I said this once any place a puppy is bought from or gotten from free or what ever there needs to be a sheet handed to them. On it needs to be problems known and testing, food used what ever. There should be some kind of fines if they do not give this to you. AKC could send sheet about dogs when they send there paperwork. Has anyone ever ask them?
Rita Jean
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Rita Jean wrote…-If a breeder and or a back yard breeder would all do there job correctly in breeding then the pet store would get a good puppy. Then the new owner would not have to worry.
Rita Jean, only puppymills and bad byb sell to pet stores.
Until they are shut down, these poor breeding dogs willl be used until they are warn out and then discarded...
A quality breeder would NEVER sell to a pet store...ever!
I am not trying to be sharp..but quality breeders should never be grouped with byb or puppymillers.. -
@Rita:
AKC could send sheet about dogs when they send there paperwork. Has anyone ever ask them?
Rita Jean
They already do. When I got Liyah's registration papers from the AKC, there was a basenji breed information flyer (Congratulations on Your New Basenji) from the BCOA included in the package. It covers history, care/exercise/training, personality, and health concerns (including Fanconi & the linked marker test).
I got the same sheet when Ruby's registration was changed so I am her owner…that was 1.5 years ago.
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Excuse me I would not know what the AKC did with a flyer I just got around last Friday to mailing Jaycee's into AKC.
Now if people get this information and do not go back to the store or breeder or follow through on the testing then that is another issue.
So you need to find away to be able to do something to pet stores get them more or less shut down and then it will stop some of the bad things. As I have always been told in my life talk is cheap. Answer me this in all years you have been saying this that is bad
breeding and so called breeders what have you done or really tried to do to stop this or make it better?????How many have you rescued be a B or another dog? How many times have you went out and helped with groups? How much do you yourself really get in and do something other than talk about it ???
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@Rita:
Excuse me I would not know what the AKC did with a flyer I just got around last Friday to mailing Jaycee's into AKC.
Now if people get this information and do not go back to the store or breeder or follow through on the testing then that is another issue.
So you need to find away to be able to do something to pet stores get them more or less shut down and then it will stop some of the bad things. As I have always been told in my life talk is cheap. Answer me this in all years you have been saying this that is bad
breeding and so called breeders what have you done or really tried to do to stop this or make it better?????How many have you rescued be a B or another dog? How many times have you went out and helped with groups? How much do you yourself really get in and do something other than talk about it ???
:eek: Wow! Who are you addressing in this post? Lots of us have done all kinds of outreach, rescue, education…I don't think you really know any of us well enough to know to what extent we have helped vs. talked.....
All of the regular breeder-posters here have done rescue, contacted our politicians about dog laws, provided support and advice to folks who have purchased puppy mill dogs, provided monetary support for puppy mill rescue situations...
There are several people who post here regularly who are VERY involved in rescue....
I am not sure why you are so angry at other posters?
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I got my papers the other day, the ones from BCOA, when I received Otis' AKC papers.
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Please could you tell me why you do not allow posts in your 'For Sale' forum from outside the US/Canada.
Thanks.This is the most recent post that brought this thread to the surface again…I didn't want it to get lost, because I think it is a good question; particularly since we have more and more Basenji people from Europe.
