I am so sorry, Tollers are such delightful little dogs. I've had the good fortune to meet several and always liked them. You and yours are in my thoughts/prayers.
Sick Dog Question– help, please?!
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Well, we're taking it slow, and things are getting better and better. Spencer is now trotting around the block, leaving pee-mail everywhere to say "Hey, I'm back!" to all his canine friends and foes. He hasn't gained back any muscle mass that I can tell, but the leg trembling is not nearly as severe. And he has gained almost a pound and a half! He's snuffling food like a little pig. Sometimes, he licks and licks his plate, wanting more, and I actually have to watch his portions so he won't overwork his kidneys. I'm hopeful that he'll be able to gain back all of the weight in time.
But he's still very thin– a fact that was pointed out to me today. I took Spencer to the dog bakery for some treats after a trip to the vet, and this woman came up to me in the parking lot and said, "You're starving that poor dog. If you won't take care of him, at least find someone who will." Then she called me a name and said "People like you make me sick" and stomped off. I was too shocked to even say anything. I get where she's coming from-- we've all seen those awful commercials and read those terrible stories-- but wow! I'm a little afraid to take him back out without bundling him up in his sweater and coat.
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Next time just immediately say "he's been sick and almost didn't make it". Rehearse this so it will come out without thought. The other person will feel terrible…...as they should. Talk about rush to judgement!
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Have you had his blood tested recently, especially the Calcium, Potassium, and Sodium levels? Low levels can cause muscle problems. Are you also feeding him a red meat diet for the amino acids?
Jennifer
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But he's still very thin– a fact that was pointed out to me today. I took Spencer to the dog bakery for some treats after a trip to the vet, and this woman came up to me in the parking lot and said, "You're starving that poor dog. If you won't take care of him, at least find someone who will." Then she called me a name and said "People like you make me sick" and stomped off. I was too shocked to even say anything. I get where she's coming from-- we've all seen those awful commercials and read those terrible stories-- but wow! I'm a little afraid to take him back out without bundling him up in his sweater and coat.
Would it make you feel better to know I heard of someone who had the ASPCA call out on them because they owned salukis? Honestly, many people think a dog is thin if it isn't 20 pounds overweight. I agree with e4, just practice saying that.
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I would hate for the ASPCA to be called. I doubt they knew anything about Salukis or sighthounds in general. Many sighthound breeds are supposed to have a lean look.
Jennifer
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Have you had his blood tested recently, especially the Calcium, Potassium, and Sodium levels? Low levels can cause muscle problems. Are you also feeding him a red meat diet for the amino acids?
Jennifer
Jennifer, he had a recheck on blood last week. Everything is normal-to-excellent for a Fanconi dog, except his ALKP is still high– around 2000. That's the mystery-- it's still more than doubled from last fall, and it didn't come back in line after the infection cleared up.
I alternate red meat and chicken, throwing in some sort of fish and eggs once or twice a week, all mixed with veggies and rice or noodles with Wellness Sr Super-5. So he has red meat every other day. Do you think he needs more?
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Yes, next time I will be quick to respond and clear up any misconception. I was just so stunned. I mean, here Spencer is, with a glossy coat, bright eyes and a nice collar, trotting along on a leash, looking very thin but clean and happy. Good thing she didn't see him a few weeks ago or she probably would have called the ASPCA!
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No matter what anyone says, like you mentioned…. a couple of weeks ago, things were SO desperate for Spencer! Thankfully, things are going to improve for him. As my Mom would say when I was growing up: "Kill 'them' with kindness". While the lady was obviously rushing to judgement, it may have taken her a lot of nerve to step up and "protect" the skinny innocent dog that she saw at your side.
I would be shocked and stunned, too, but for all we know, she was Michael Vick's neighbor and vowed to herself to protect the next innocent dog. And like you mentioned, you will be better prepared for the next person, so that they can understand that the Spencer they see is, in reality, the "after" picture. 
Whatever... I feel so blessed that YOU found an answer for Spencer's illness, and that when the "experts" told you to let him go, YOU didn't give up and YOU found the right answers to keep him going! You've restored my faith in mankind, because you found the hope that no one else would help you find.
Spoil him rotten, within limits, of course.
Hugs and roos-
Patty -
Have you had an abdominal x-ray or ultrasound done? My 13 year old Fanconi Affected girl had high liver values but not that high and she was diagnosed with a gallbladder problem but not a liver problem. My regular vet did a simple ultrasound but she was referred to an internist where a more formal ultrasound could be done. If your regular vet cannot do the ultrasound, I would go to an internist/specialist who could do it.
Where in Tennessee do you live? My dogs previous internist is now in the Nashville area.
Jennifer
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Jennifer, Spencer had abdominal x-rays, and the vet ruled out gallbladder issues. I can't remember exactly why, but she seemed confident it was not that. I'll have to raise the question again. His liver appeared normal on the films, but I know that doesn't rule out a mass. It could be liver cancer, but he is not symptomatic and the rest of his liver values are normal. Everything is normal, except for the ALKP. Dr. Gonto says the ALKP is often abnormally high in Fanconi dogs, but Spencer's value is higher than most, and it doubled quickly. I opted against a liver biopsy right now. He's been through so much.
I am in Knoxville. Spencer's blood gases are done at UT, and my vet could probably set me up there. Would an ultrasound show that much more than the x-ray? And what does Missy take for her gallbladder problem? Or has it resolved?
Thanks for responding!
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No matter what anyone says, like you mentioned…. a couple of weeks ago, things were SO desperate for Spencer! Thankfully, things are going to improve for him. As my Mom would say when I was growing up: "Kill 'them' with kindness". While the lady was obviously rushing to judgement, it may have taken her a lot of nerve to step up and "protect" the skinny innocent dog that she saw at your side.
I would be shocked and stunned, too, but for all we know, she was Michael Vick's neighbor and vowed to herself to protect the next innocent dog. And like you mentioned, you will be better prepared for the next person, so that they can understand that the Spencer they see is, in reality, the "after" picture. Whatever... I feel so blessed that YOU found an answer for Spencer's illness, and that when the "experts" told you to let him go, YOU didn't give up and YOU found the right answers to keep him going! You've restored my faith in mankind, because you found the hope that no one else would help you find.
Spoil him rotten, within limits, of course.
Hugs and roos-
PattyThank you, Patty! That's so nice of you to say. And, of course, I understand the woman's POV, because seeing a very thin dog would bother me, too. I was just taken aback, that's all. Next time, I won't be. Who knows– I might even make Spencer one of those sandwich signs that says "If you think I'm thin now, ya shoulda seen me LAST week. BAROO!"
Oh, and Spencer takes issue with that "within limits." He thinks that spoiling should have no bounds.
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Ha, I agree with Spencer…no bounds!
And yes, you need a good snappy comeback for rash, intrusive people. Patty M is very kind hearted! "I'm stunned that anyone would be so judgmental without any knowledge. My dog is recovering from near-fatal illness and surgery" (here I would probably add something like," you stupid bi***", maybe a little judgmental myself?)Don't know if you remember the old Saturday Night Live with Dan Ackroid and Jane Curtain, doing Weekend Update? Jane would say something and Dan would turn to her and say "Jane, you ignorant slut". My husband uses that line for people like the woman who confronted you, and it still makes me laugh.
So glad Spencer is eating like a wolf, hope he is a fat boy soon!
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Here is some information regarding ultrasound and the liver and here is the website it came from http://canineliverdiseasefoundation.org:
Ultrasound the liver
Perfect technique for visualizing the circulation of the liver, the bile duct system, the density of the liver tissue, the size of the liver. Ultrasound is highly beneficial in the diagnosis of liver disease. We recommend ultrasounding a liver when the liver enzymes tests are elevated over time, or the bile acids test is abnormal. The internal structure (called parenchyma) can be analyzed, and post-hepatic liver disease can be differentiated from hepatic liver disease. This can be very important because disease in the liver can often be diagnosed with a biopsy during the ultrasound. Post-hepatic liver disease cannot easily be diagnosed in this matter. Instead it is diagnosed and treated with an exploratory surgery (called a laparotomy).
This is a good website as it goes through the diagnosing of liver problems. There is a section called Testing and Diagnosing and it is very informative regarding tests needed.
I would have a complete abdominal ultrasound done and not just the liver as it will show all the organs.
Missy is on Ursodiol for her gallbladder problem.
Jennifer
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Ha, I agree with Spencer…no bounds!
And yes, you need a good snappy comeback for rash, intrusive people. Patty M is very kind hearted! "I'm stunned that anyone would be so judgmental without any knowledge. My dog is recovering from near-fatal illness and surgery" (here I would probably add something like," you stupid bi***", maybe a little judgmental myself?)Don't know if you remember the old Saturday Night Live with Dan Ackroid and Jane Curtain, doing Weekend Update? Jane would say something and Dan would turn to her and say "Jane, you ignorant slut". My husband uses that line for people like the woman who confronted you, and it still makes me laugh.
So glad Spencer is eating like a wolf, hope he is a fat boy soon!
Ha ha, I love that old SNL skit– some of the funniest things ever on TV were on that show! I think I have found my comeback line. And if it's a man, I'll smoothly switch to "Dan, you pompous ass."
But, hopefully, Spencer the chowhound will gain another few pounds, and no retort will be necessary. Of course, then I'll probably get hit with "That poor dog is too fat. You're feeding him too much."
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Here is some information regarding ultrasound and the liver and here is the website it came from http://canineliverdiseasefoundation.org:
I would have a complete abdominal ultrasound done and not just the liver as it will show all the organs. Missy is on Ursodiol for her gallbladder problem.
Jennifer
Thanks, Jennifer! I'll check into it. I'm guessing I would have to go to UT for the ultrasound– if my vet had the capability, she probably would have done it. His bile duct test was normal. I believe that was a blood test. But maybe the bile acids test is different. I'm usually pretty good at knowing exactly what Spencer had done and the results, but those were a frantic few days and we were doing so many tests so quickly. I'm going to go back and re-read all the paperwork. I remember discussing a bile duct blockage as the root of his problem and ruling it out.
I'm glad Missy is still doing well! It's wonderful when these older Fanconi dogs keep beating the odds.
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It is so good to see so many knowledgeable folks here helping others. Those of us relatively new to the breed learn so much from you all. Scary and hard enough to have a sick dog– so much better to be able to come vent, share and get ideas.
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Yes, this forum is an amazing resource, for information as well as support! I have learned so much. When we were grasping at straws with Spencer's illness, everyone shared so many new ideas and suggestions. That and the compassion helped tremendously. You're right, Debra– it is a wonderful resource, and I'm so grateful to have it.
Spencer has regained almost two pounds. He still looks very thin, and every bone juts out, but he feels heavier when you pick him up. It sure does take longer to put the weight back on than it did to take it off. Now why is it the opposite for humans?
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Two pounds sounds very good - he was in such a low state. Every ounce is good news!!
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Yes, two pounds is good news! Two more, and he won't look like a starveling. He's been asking for seconds at night when it's something he likes. Quite a change from a month ago!
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Super news, so happy that he is doing so well!
