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    Welcome. Some of us are related by b's..where did you get your boy from.. I see you have a cat..bet the cat is top "dog". laugh.

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  • He looks like a real charmer! Welcome to the forum from another new member. Love the picture on the cat stand! :)

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  • So how did "Convict" come out of the trend you and your sister follow? Most basenjis are semi-criminal, haha, so I guess it fits! Welcome!

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  • Welcome to the forum! Convict? Is he on parole? Great pic of him in the cat tree!

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  • @Dutchmt:

    Sharron I got my boy from a small breeder in Kansas he's not a papered dog I wasn't really looking for that although he could be. I was looking more for over all health and temperament I know the line has been clean of disease but hasn't produced show quality which is fine by me to be honest I can't even recall the dam and sires name atm. Yea the cat Mr. Teo still rules the house but him and Convict play well together but When Mr. Teo has had enough he puts Convict in his place in short order.

    Unless they have done health testing you really do not know that the "lines" are clean. Has he or the sire and dam been DNA'ed for Fanconi? Health tested for Thyroid? Eyes checked? Hips OFA'ed? Lots of people will say that "my lines are healthly" but if you don't health test you don't know that and should never make that claim.

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  • Welcome…

    Love the name :)

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    Love the name theme you have going with your family pets. I always suggest everyone who gets a basenji do the cheek swab to check for fanconi. Its worth the $$ and will tell you what the future holds re your dogs health.
    Wonderful that your b brought you a new friend. I hope it works out as it should.
    Of topic, my hubby is a fly fisherman and we have spent many summers in your beautiful state. Don't know how you all handle the winters tho. Now back to b's!….

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  • @Dutchmt:

    Sharron I got my boy from a small breeder in Kansas he's not a papered dog I wasn't really looking for that although he could be. I was looking more for over all health and temperament I know the line has been clean of disease but hasn't produced show quality which is fine by me to be honest I can't even recall the dam and sires name atm. /QUOTE]

    He is a cutie and that pic with the cat priceless…

    But... your above makes me sad and very angry. You put money in the pocket of a puppymill. Sall breeder or not, they breed nonquality dogs to make money. That's a puppymill/backyard breeder.

    As for the line, how can you POSSIBLY know the line? There is no line. It is mediocre unproven dogs bred to produce puppies for sale. Without a sire and dam registration, you can't possibly research if ANY testing has ever been done. In this age, where the internet can quickly educate a potential buyer who really cares in about an hour, you failed the basics and have now helped this scum continue to breed. If you wanted such a dog, rescue is full of them. Instead of helping rescue, you have helped enable this person to keep breeding STOCK to sell. Please, read, learn, never do it again and help educate others to the fallacy of such nonsense of claiming you know a line and health of a byb/puppymill.

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  • I have been trying to decide whether to chip in my two cents here or not. I see both sides of this one, but I really wish people could make their points without being antagonistic.

    A few thoughts….

    Basenjis thrived in their native Congo because they were good at their jobs. The ones that weren't undoubtedly didn't get a lot of chances to pass on their genes. And they were not bred for "pretty"!

    Sheepdog clubs in Canada have been trying to keep the Border Collie out of the CKC registry for some time because they all feel that once you start selecting for appearance you lose the working ability.

    It is good in a lot of ways that we now have tests to determine nasty recessive genes and breed away from them. However, it is early days with DNA testing, and we must be careful we know what we are doing. Since the Fanconi's inheritance path is not fully understood, it is possible we could end up throwing the baby out with the bathwater, so to speak.

    I am against puppy mills on principle, but if someone owns a dog and bitch with decent temperaments, why should they not produce a few offspring for the people who just want a nice companion animal and have no interest in high priced show dogs? Not all backyard breeders are ignorant of the health issues, and I think the OP indicated that the dog could be registered and that he had checked the health of the dogs produced by this breeder, so why go heavy handed with the criticism instead of simply asking a few questions to clarify the situation?

    Many respected breeders (not necessarily Basenji breeders) I know started with a couple of individuals, produced some decent offspring, and went on to become breeding kennels. Many well known breeders do not take the proper consideration when arranging breedings, and are as much "in it for the buck" as the worst of puppy mills. (I know an example of this in a different breed......the breeder sometimes isn't even sure which dog nailed the bitch!) It cuts both ways!

    JMHO.

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    Welcome to you and Convict - that's a new name on me! I'm assuming he gets on well with your cat?

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  • @Dutchmt:

    @ Tanza and Debra Ok first ummm did you read my history Yea a veterinary technician by the way been one for 12 years so yea you have offended me right off by thinking i didn't ask the right questions and get proper paper work. As I had said I don't recall the breeding pairs names a

    I don't give a flying fig if you are a veterinarian or the king of Siam… your very use of the term "Breeding pair" tells me you know absolutely NOTHING about responsible breeding. SO in my quest to not spend time where it is wasted, done.

    @eeeefarm:

    but I really wish people could make their points without being antagonistic.


    I am against puppy mills on principle, but if someone owns a dog and bitch with decent temperaments, why should they not produce a few offspring for the people who just want a nice companion animal and have no interest in high priced show dogs? Not all backyard breeders are ignorant of the health issues, and I think the OP indicated that the dog could be registered and that he had checked the health of the dogs produced by this breeder,.

    Sorry but people supporting irresponsible breeding does not encourage me to be all warm and fuzzy.

    And for the other… lets make a bet, okay? Let the OP post the sire and dam info. I will bet you that there is NO HEALTH TESTING on them, much less 2 or 3 generations of testing that a RESPONSIBLE breeder would have.

    I'd explain the rest, but if you don't get the issue with breeding pets, I am not the temperament today that should be explaining it.

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  • @DebraDownSouth:

    Sorry but people supporting irresponsible breeding does not encourage me to be all warm and fuzzy.

    I would like to know your definition of "irresponsible breeding". I have personally witnessed…...over 40 years or so.....wonderful breeds of dogs totally messed up by breeders who should know better. (not "backyard breeders", either!) Judges who put up animals that can hardly hobble around the show ring do not improve this situation!

    Collies used to have some brain space in their heads before "pencil" heads came into vogue. GSD's used to be rugged, sound dogs with sensible, calm temperaments, before extreme angulation became popular.....now the show dogs can barely hobble around the ring, and many have aberrations such as spinning. There are many other examples out there. So if we have multiple health problems in many breeds these days......problems nobody had ever heard of, 40 years ago.....well, who has been producing these lines over the years? Supposedly responsible breeders, that's who.

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  • Dutchmt, I think it is a shame if you leave because a couple of people were rude. I for one hope you change your mind and stick around.

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  • @eeeefarm:

    I would like to know your definition of "irresponsible breeding". I have personally witnessed…...over 40 years or so.....wonderful breeds of dogs totally messed up by breeders who should know better. (not "backyard breeders", either!) Judges who put up animals that can hardly hobble around the show ring do not improve this situation!

    Collies used to have some brain space in their heads before "pencil" heads came into vogue. GSD's used to be rugged, sound dogs with sensible, calm temperaments, before extreme angulation became popular.....now the show dogs can barely hobble around the ring, and many have aberrations such as spinning. There are many other examples out there. So if we have multiple health problems in many breeds these days......problems nobody had ever heard of, 40 years ago.....well, who has been producing these lines over the years? Supposedly responsible breeders, that's who.

    eeee we have tread this topic about into the ground. If you search the term responsible breeders on this forum, you will be able to find out exactly where each of us stands :)

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    I am afraid to even mention anything about my two basenjis….. I don't won't to get dragged through the mud if I don't meet someones expectations...
    Let's try to lighten up and tr to give more pleasant advice....

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  • I don't think is about expectations as much as health… health is the third rail, but understandably so.

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  • @Schouiffy:

    I don't think is about expectations as much as health… health is the third rail, but understandably so.

    I think most of us with Basenjis "get" the health issue and agree that breeding animals should be tested. What I take issue with is the harshness applied to a new forum member, and also the assumption that the breeder had not tested their dogs. The polite approach would have been to ask. (apart from anything else, it is awkward to apologize after the fact if they had been!)

    In my experience it is far better to gently make your point than to go into full attack mode. We have likely lost a potentially valuable member of this forum, and it was entirely unnecessary. This person had already acquired the dog. You may not approve of the breeder, but it is already a done deal that isn't going to change.

    One of the difficulties at the moment is that the Fanconi's DNA test is a marker test and it is perfectly possible to be blindsided by an unexpected Fanconi offspring even from two "clears", and certainly from a clear and a carrier. DNA testing for a polygenic condition isn't infallible. Just ask anyone who has tried to breed Overo paint horses! (and the attendant lethal white problem).

    We have testing for CID in Arabians, which is a simple autosomal recessive and HYPP in Quarter Horses where the gene is dominant. These conditions should be relatively easy to predict and avoid. But DNA testing is not infallible. My neighbour had a DNA test confirm a colt was homozygous for the dominant Tobiano colour…...but his first two offspring were solids!

    Sorry for rambling on, but my point is that it takes time for everyone to get on board with new protocols, and it doesn't help if they have anecdotal evidence of the tests being faulty. You will persuade more people to listen and agree to avoid buying puppies from untested parents if you don't browbeat or belittle them. A forum should be a welcoming place for new members.

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