Doing Your Homework

[Duke]

@dmcarty:

I think it's important for reputable and responsible breeders to have a presence online - if we don't - the only option will be puppy mills.

Long before internet - I thought I had done plenty of research and purchased a basenji - turns out it was from what I later discovered was a puppy mill. I consider myself pretty savy, not too easily hoodwinked - and they got me - so I always err on the side of getting as much info as possible out there I figure if I can be make that mistake so can many others.

We happen to have a BIG operation in Wisconsin that has a wonderful website - (puppy pics are horrid) and sells her animals for twice as much as anyone else around. She also places her bitches on a 'lease' to produce puppies. She BRAGS about not being in a Breed specific club because we are all nuts and she is USDA inspected so that is better.

Let me tell you that is frustrating.

OMG - please explain "We happen . . ." I'm not a purest of dog owners, albeit responsible (neutered/spayed). But still find myself on the side of frustration with purebred purchase.

[lvoss]

Hopefully this won't get lost in cyberspace this time.

I think all Diane meant is that the state of Wisconsin has a "breeder" who breeds a large number of puppies, advertises on the web, and charges very high prices.

When it comes to the issue of purebred vs mutt, I think there is a place in this world for the purebred dog. I would be greatly saddened to lose a breed that I consider a piece of living historyl To think that DNA evidence supports that the little dogs we share our houses with today are the same breed that the pharaoh's shared their homes with. What a loss that it would be for a breed that has survived thousands of years and so many changes in civilization to be lost now.

I volunteer at my local shelter twice a week so I do know first hand what it is like. I was there today and the shelter is quite full and I am really hoping that some dogs started getting adopted because the shelter is running out of space. That being said, even after spending hours with the dogs at the shelter, I am still glad to come home to my responsibly bred dogs. There is a difference and I appreciate it more after working with the shelter dogs.

I started this thread to urge anyone who is considering a new addition to do their homework first. For those who do not or will not do their homework then please go adopt a shelter dog. They are great dogs and have so much to offer and by doing so a person can avoid inadvertently supporting irresponsible breeders who are contributing to the shelter population. If a person really wants a purebred then do your homework and buy from a responsible breeder. Here is a link to learn about the characteristics of a responsible breeder, http://basenjinet.net/Information/Buying_a_Basenji.html

[Quercus]

<<but still="" find="" myself="" on="" the="" side="" of="" frustration="" with="" purebred="" purchase.="">>

I don't understand this comment? Do you mean you have had a bad experience with a purebred purchase, or you don't think people should be making a purebred purchase?

This first sentiment I can understand…there are responsible breeders, and irresponsible ones...if someone gets burned by a someone breeding/selling dogs with no ethical responsibility, that is very unfortunate; hence the original sentiment 'do your homework.'

But, if you are conflicted about the ethical responsibility of the existance of purebred dogs...well, it might help to do some reading about why the exist. Each purebred dog was originally bred to do a specific job. Granted, yes, most of those dogs don't DO their original job anymore...but it doesn't seem fair to invalidate an entire breed (some of whom are being used for their original function) because consumers and irresponsible breeders took them and tried to turn them into something suitable for a lovely housing development. Most breeds have hundreds (or thousands) of years of history....does it seem right that we disregard that because here in the US (noted, NOT in Europe) we have millions of unplanned, unwanted dogs? Should we just mandate that no one be able to purchase a purebred dog to make sure all the irresponsibly bred ones get good homes? That doesn't seem very American? People should be allowed to make choices about how they acquire their pets without value judgements and shame, IMO....of course, as long as they have done their homework, and know what challenges they may be facing.

Personally, I don't think responsible breeders of ANY breed should be expected to NOT produce healthy, stable, pretty puppies so that all of the randomly bred pit-bulls in the innercities of America can be placed in happy homes.

As you guys know I LOVE all dogs, I really do. Purebred dogs are no better or worse than mixed breed dogs...but people should feel free to make their own choice about what they want for their family, without guilt or shame being part of the equation.</but>

[lvoss]

@Quercus:

As you guys know I LOVE all dogs, I really do. Purebred dogs are no better or worse than mixed breed dogs…but people should feel free to make their own choice about what they want for their family, without guilt or shame being part of the equation.

This is exactly my point but so much better stated. Their are pros and cons to every choice. There are many reasons a family may choose to adopt a mixed breed but there are equally as many and as valid reasons for adopting a well bred pure bred. The problem is that so many people are not opting for either of those choices but instead buy a dog from a person who has irresponsibly bred the litter be it purebred or mixed breed.

At the shelter we see purebred dogs, just as all shelters do. All the ones I have seen have at least 1 thing in common. Not a single one has a form of permanent ID. There is no way to know where the dog came from. That goes for the majority of the mixed breeds also though there have been some owner surrenders that have a microchip.

[Duke]

@Duke:

OMG - please explain "We happen . . ." I'm not a purest of dog owners, albeit responsible (neutered/spayed). But still find myself on the side of frustration with purebred purchase.

Sorry I wasn't clear with my thoughts on this. After learning from you, breeders on this forum, I have come to realize that doing homework is most often a way to acquire a healthy purebred animal. My frustration is seeing full breeds in puppy stores that keep puppy mills profitable. Pups from BYB are probably not sensibly bred - but bred by someone who probably wanted an offspring of their beloved pet. I love animals of all kinds too. I apologize for my short response - did not mean to offend anyone.:o

[tanza]

@Duke:

Sorry I wasn't clear with my thoughts on this. After learning from you, breeders on this forum, I have come to realize that doing homework is most often a way to acquire a healthy purebred animal. My frustration is seeing full breeds in puppy stores that keep puppy mills profitable. Pups from BYB are probably not sensibly bred - but bred by someone who probably wanted an offspring of their beloved pet. I love animals of all kinds too. I apologize for my short response - did not mean to offend anyone.:o

While I can understand some of your points, I totally disagree with "bred by someone who probably wanted an offspring of their beloved pet"… I seriously doubt that in 90% of the cases. Just look at the people offering pups on puppyfind.com. These are BYB's IMO... and they do no health testing and they are breeding for money. They put on like these are their "beloved" pets.. when in fact they are just breeding and selling with no consideration to the breed period.

[JazzysMom]

And then there are those who will breed a bitch at least once because "female dogs are friendly if they've had a litter of puppies."

I can't believe how often I've heard that one, still.
I've actually had a few people suggest that we breed Jazzy – well, now that she's spayed, they ask why we didn't -- because she has such a snotty attitude, and didn't I know that could have been changed by just letting her have a litter of puppies?

Oy.

[Duke]

@tanza:

While I can understand some of your points, I totally disagree with "bred by someone who probably wanted an offspring of their beloved pet"… I seriously doubt that in 90% of the cases. Just look at the people offering pups on puppyfind.com. These are BYB's IMO… and they do no health testing and they are breeding for money. They put on like these are their "beloved" pets.. when in fact they are just breeding and selling with no consideration to the breed period.

See - add this to my frustration level. I am an average dog owner. Many average pet owner's don't know what exactly goes into responsible breeding. (I do, because I have learned here) On average, I think people don't know that a BYB can be just breeding for money.

[tanza]

@Duke:

See - add this to my frustration level. I am an average dog owner. Many average pet owner's don't know what exactly goes into responsible breeding. (I do, because I have learned here) On average, I think people don't know that a BYB can be just breeding for money.

I am sure you are correct, however what blows me away is people that will purchase a living, breathing, animal on the internet?…. People do more research to purchase a car then a live animal?... Makes no sense to me... Then again on the other hand there are so many people out there that think they can buy a bitch, bred it and make "spending" money... when they are looking for their next "pet"...

Of course that said, when I was a kid, my family was no better is buying dogs... (from pet shops)..... So it is a learning curve totally, but until the "way" people look at purchasing pets, it will be slow going.

[senji]

I am from the puppymill capital of the world..Lacaster County PA..it's heart breaking. I know several people that have gotten more or maybe I should say less then they bargained for. I can't understand thinking someone with 20 different breeds has put any thought into breeding. I have not seen any Bs around here in the situation though.

[tanza]

@senji:

I am from the puppymill capital of the world..Lacaster County PA..it's heart breaking. I know several people that have gotten more or maybe I should say less then they bargained for. I can't understand thinking someone with 20 different breeds has put any thought into breeding. I have not seen any Bs around here in the situation though.

Exactly my point, but John Q public doesn't know that… they think that because they are "breeding" many, they have lots of knowledge... think about... so all we can do is to educate, have websites, make sure they are up to date, put ads on site that sell pups so at least people see there is a difference....

[Tayda_Lenny]

Even though I have 2 purebred Basenjis and I love them to death, I do feel guilty sometimes having purchased them from breeders because there are so many dogs at shelters (purebred and mixed) that are in need of good homes….

[tanza]

@Tayda_Lenny:

Even though I have 2 purebred Basenjis and I love them to death, I do feel guilty sometimes having purchased them from breeders because there are so many dogs at shelters (purebred and mixed) that are in need of good homes….

You should not feel quilty.. it is not your fault that there are dogs in shelters… it is the people that "dumped" them and the ones that bred them. Yes there are many in shelters and not to say that they do not deserve homes, however, we deserve to purchase a well bred, well socialized, dog with good health...

[YodelDogs]

@Tayda_Lenny:

Even though I have 2 purebred Basenjis and I love them to death, I do feel guilty sometimes having purchased them from breeders because there are so many dogs at shelters (purebred and mixed) that are in need of good homes….

Puppies from ethical breeders also need homes.

[Tayda_Lenny]

Ethical breeders would not put their puppies to sleep if a home is not found in a suitable amount of time.

[Tayda_Lenny]

Speaking of ethical breeders… i just came back from visiting my friends new miniature Pincher... just got him on the spur of the moment after seeing a lady carrying one in a bank. That woman ended up being a breeder and had another puppy back home waiting for a home. The lady basically let them take the dog home for $500 without even asking any questions of them... no questions about other pets in the home, what their schedules are like, nothing. I wonder what kind of breeder this woman was.... sigh...

[lvoss]

If ethical, responsible breeders stopped breeding because there were dogs in shelters, it would not stop dogs from ending up in shelters. It would mean that a person looking for a healthy, well socialized dog from a known background would have no where to go. People should not feel bad because they choose to get a dog from a responsible breeder who is health testing and socializing their puppies, screens homes, and follows up. But there needs to be an awareness about the differences between a responsible breeder and one who is not. Someone who meets a person at the bank and offers to sell a puppy to them without learning anything about the person or family is not acting in a responsible manner.

[torchsong]

Experience also tends to be a good screener.

When my wife and I walk She-Ra in the park, adults get really attracted to her and see the way she plays with their kids (she's GREAT with kids), and they start asking question about the breed. They're really big on the whole "barkless dog" concept and I'll usually go into a little of the history (one of the oldest breeds, seen in heiroglyphs, not too common until recent decades, etc.), but I have yet to let any of them leave without telling them the other side of the story - they're high energy and high maintenance, they exist to test your patience, will shred/chew anything you leave out, you WILL walk them every night, particularly when they're young, etc. - things we all LOVE about our B's, but potential new owners might not be aware of and may not find as endearing.

My wife gets on my case for talking too much about them to strangers, but I tell her my big worry is that someone comes away from the conversation thinking "Barkless dog" and uses that as their criteria to pick one up. They aren't for everyone, and there are days (few and far between) we both scratch our heads and wonder why we didn't just get a bassett hound (joking). I try and impress that on families who see She-Ra and fall in love on the spot…