Like much internet advice I find short answers incomplete - and mine was. I really want to ad that making a crate/xpen/gated puppy area should never be seen as "punishment". These partitioned puppy areas should be conditioned to be safe places for a puppy/dog. Mine, thankfully, tolerates and even likes her xpens probably because it's where she eats, receives treats, sleeps, chews and even plays. This took about a week or so. Now she voluntarily goes into her xpens (in my case) on her own and when she's put there involuntarily she might whine for a minute before settling down with a chew and/or going to sleep.
Pet Store Puppies - Problem
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I'm chalking it up to getting lucky at this point, but many of the horror stories I've heard on here don't seem to have happened…yet. Maybe I caught them on a good day.
I do know my experience wasn't anything like what I've been reading on here. Is it a fact that 100% of pet stores buy from puppy mills? I have been to some and yes, you can visually see the problems with some of the animals and it is heartbreaking. I guess I'm wondering if all pet stores should be lumped into the same category...it's not possible there are (and I'm using the term loosely) "honest" pet stores to exist?
IMO, NO…. there is not a responsible breeder that would ever place a pup for sale in a pet store... no way, no how... Pet Store do not get puppies from responsible breeders... now granted they could buy from a local Backyard breeder... but that is not much better then a pet store....
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IMO, NO…. there is not a responsible breeder that would ever place a pup for sale in a pet store... no way, no how... Pet Store do not get puppies from responsible breeders... now granted they could buy from a local Backyard breeder... but that is not much better then a pet store....
Sent that too soon…. pet store that buys from a puppymiller
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The bottom line is that for the petstore to make money and the "breeder" to make money then there is no way for the dogs in a pet store to be bred in a responsbile way. If you ask any responsible breeder what the cost of a responsibly bred litter is, there is no way to do it and make money without cutting costs somewhere and those places are going to be in the care of the dogs. Some petstores puppies may show visible signs of the low cost care they have recieved while others may not or may not show signs until many months or even years after you have brought the pup home.
Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?
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Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?
We got Zahra from a petstore (I am smarter now and also a member of BRAT), they told us nothing about the breed other than it was barkless and showed us a book that had hundreds of breeds in it. The only health guarentee that they gave us was I think for the first 10 days that we had the dog or if the vet found something wrong. Even if that happened I think you got a store credit for the price of the dog when you returned the dog. Zahra had been there a while and was marked down to $1000 I got them to come down to $975 she was originally $1300.
There are only two pet stores that sell pets in the Hampton Roads area that I know of. I am sure that number could be less and we would all be happier but I am happy to see that not every mall in this area has a pet store.
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One of the problems is that many people have this naive belief that because a pet store is in a mall and has a sort of polished look about it, the dogs must be "better". I honestly think many people think a pet store is sort of a dog breeders' outlet store. They don't realize that isn't the case. Example: When my older son was 11, he wanted a snake. I convinced him to get an iquana instead. When he was 14, he was no longer interested in the iquana and it had grown quite large. We advertised it in the paper at a reasonable price and got a few calls but no bites. So we ended up selling it to a pet store in the mall - where they multiplied our price by 5 and sold it within hours! The guy who bought it was one of our telephone inquirers and he called us to ask if we would sell him our glass case because, he had decided it would be better to buy from the pet store where he could be better assured as to iguana's background. My husband "educated him" on how much his stupidity had cost him.
I don't think we have still have any pet stores around here that sell dogs. However, people here buy dogs from the flea market and they aren't cheap!! And I'd be willing to bet that they also come from puppy mills.
Pat
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My brother and his wife bought Senji at a Petland at the mall for $700, including the crate. My sister-in-law read a little about basenjis…how they don't bark, are clean, etc, and decided that this is the dog she wanted. The petstore said that someone had actually "returned" him, and that they never get basenjis on a regular basis. They were also told that the "breeder" didn't want him because "all his markings were wrong." And that he wouldn't make a good show dog. The only thing that was wrong with him when they got him was some sort of growth on the back of his neck. The vet gave them some sort of ointment, and it went away. I ended up inheriting Senji when he was six. This past winter, at 11 years old, he almost died of liver disease. The vet thinks his liver problems may have been due to a congenital abnormality. He's doing much better now due to the meds, so hopefully, he'll be around a few more years.
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I think you got a store credit for the price of the dog when you returned the dog.
I want "store credit" for a remote or something, not a life. And then what happens to the "returned" dog? The thought gives me chills. Even at the shelter, we get people who want to return a dog a get a refund. For why? Two of the guys had the dogs run away on them. Another one he just doesn't want the dog anymore. And now you want a refund from us because you can't take care of the dog? You just going to return your kids to the hospital when they don't listen or run away or you "just don't want them"? And then demand a refund from the doctor.
Sorry about that. I'm a little sore because we got kicked out of a Petsmart where we were doing adoptions because the Petland across the way was selling puppymill puppies and "we were taking their business. And they're an established company there and not just some non-profit."
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Sorry about that. I'm a little sore because we got kicked out of a Petsmart where we were doing adoptions because the Petland across the way was selling puppymill puppies and "we were taking their business. And they're an established company there and not just some non-profit."
I don't quite understand this . . . Everyone has business taking care of business that other's do not. So why the big uproar over an adoption "across the street" (not advocating puppy millers)!?! Different story comletely…Just goes to show, again many people revolve without "common sense"!! This is a "sticky topic" so to speak.
I will never forget my earlier years when I've rescued and found homes of many pets to their owners. I knew that dogs wondering along the railways were someones pets. They were all (usually) intact male dogs. Once, I found out that (2) dogs that I happily reunited with their owners, subsequently deceased to heat exhaustion. The owners killed their dogs by not allowing relief! Today, I'm haunted by that reality. Many people don't think of a dog as a pet/family member. I am a pet friendly/family thinking person. I don't get any other thoughts. I think that puppy millers and pet stores don't have any more regard to the lives they sell, but for the profit they make.
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Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?
Ummm…yes, yes, and yes.
I knew what Fanconi was, but my wife didn't. The pet store owner was adamant that we both know about that and went into detail on it. They showed us the AKC papers and the lineage of the dog, where they got it, the phone number and address of the breeder, their names, etc. Finally, yes, they did talk about how most diseases will now show up until after we've had the dog for some time. There were no health "guarantees" with this purchase.
Like I said, my experience was nothing like what I've been hearing about on here, and I'm not trying to paint a picture that these guys are saints or anything. It just seemed that my experience seemed to fly in the face of everything I'd known before going in as well as what I'm reading now.
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Showing you names for where they got the dogs and a written pedigree tells you nothing about the health of those dogs. I am glad to hear that they did tell you about the diseases in the breed and that most likely it would be several years before you knew if your dog might be affected but I would not say from the information you have provided that they gave you anything that would allow you to make an assessment of the risk of your puppy. Did the pedigree show OFA numbers? CERF numbers? Strip Test information? Did they tell you the cost of treatment if your dog was later diagnosed with any of the inherited diseases?
Even if they told you about these things, did they also tell you about puppy developmental stages? Did they say how critical socialization, handling, and time with dam and littermates is? Most puppies in the petstore sell best at a time when they really should still be with their dam and siblings learning bite inhibition and proper dog language.
How about if you can not keep the dog at some time in the future? What responsibility is the petstore willing to take? Are they going to take it back and see that it is rehomed? Will it end up in a shelter or rescue? If so will they donate the money to pay for it to be rehomed? That is part of being responsible also. Making sure every puppy you produce has a home for life and being responsible for rehoming it if the home doesn't work out.
I have never seen a petstore that can meet the criteria for Responsible Breeder because they either do not have or will not give full health information for the parents and grandparents of the dogs, they will not take responsibility for adult dogs that are given up when they are no longer wanted, and they can not meet the socialization requirements for best raising puppies. This does not mean that some do not do better than others but they are not and can not meet the requirements for responsible.
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There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.
All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?
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There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.
All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?
Why don't you contact your local Basenji club? They might have information that you can leave at the store for anyone buying the pups…. or maybe one of the members can drop off information about Basenjis...
How much were they selling them for?
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How much were they selling them for?
I just called they are selling them for $965, they were born 8/15/07 and are brother and sister.
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I just called they are selling them for $965, they were born 8/15/07 and are brother and sister.
Gezz… even for California that is high... especially for pet store, puppy mill puppies... makes responsible breeders "cringe".....
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Gezz… even for California that is high... especially for pet store, puppy mill puppies... makes responsible breeders "cringe".....
So, what would be the going rate in California.
From breeders in WA, I think the going rate is in the neighborhood of $900.
I have no idea what a pet store would charge..
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I got my furbaby from the mall and she cost me $1,200 and I am so glad I got her. If I had not been there I would have not gotten to know this breed. I know pet stores are not the place to get a pup, but I didn't know then about puppy mills. The fact remains that I got introduced to this wonderful breed through a pet store and I sure am glad I did.
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I got my furbaby from the mall and she cost me $1,200 and I am so glad I got her. If I had not been there I would have not gotten to know this breed. I know pet stores are not the place to get a pup, but I didn't know then about puppy mills. The fact remains that I got introduced to this wonderful breed through a pet store and I sure am glad I did.
I am glad that you gave your B a great home (and the next comments are meant in general, not direct at you personally), but still each pup sold from a pet store means another will show up….. and it still begs the question that people need to really reseach getting a family companion, people research for a car more then a living animal... it should not be by walking into a pet store and deciding that day to buy a dog....
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There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.
All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?
Oh, I feel the same way. I feel so sorry for the puppies in there. But in reality we should be feeling sorrier for the parents of these puppies. No one, hardly, ever thinks about them.
I helped with a BUR run when a puppymill was shut down in MO. The pups were adorable, friendly and playful and young enough to eventually be socialized and a happy member of a family (but who knows about health and temperment–so not saying they are not little victems too).
But the poor momma had lived her whole life never knowing the comfort of a bed, the softness of grass, the fun of running full speed doing the B500, she knew nothing more than the wire cage she had spent her whole life in. She seemed scared of the grass when we took her out for a potty break. I just kept thinking of how spoiled my B boy and how he loves to lay around in my warm bed and chew on his rawhide and how he gets a special treat before bedtime. He has no worries.
Not to take the focus from the puppies, I think petstores should not sell puppies and puppy millers should be shut down...but after seeing poor Lady ;I have a different perspective on petstore puppies that I think many choose to overlook or just dont think about. -
There was a video on CNN about puppy mills. I thought I would add it to this thread. I put the link in the title that is where I got it from if anyone would like to read it.
Virginia: The Next Puppy Mill State?
November 1, 2007
Virginia—a state dotted with historic towns, scenic byways … and horrible puppy mills.
A five-month, undercover investigation by The HSUS revealed a substantial Virginia puppy mill industry that is largely unregulated and often in violation of state and federal laws.
Hidden Cruelty
From large-scale operations with hundreds of dogs living in seemingly endless rows of cages; to small, crowded kennels in trailers, backyards and even basements across Virginia; hundreds of commercial breeders are mass-producing dogs with little or no oversight and few—if any—safeguards for the health and well-being of the animals.
HSUS investigators visited puppy mills of all sizes, as well as pet stores and Virginia-based websites selling dogs. Their discoveries were staggering.
Commercial dog breeders in Virginia number nearly 1,000. And many of these operations churn out puppies in the most deplorable conditions imaginable.
The HSUS
Yorkies in a Va. pet store that buys from unlicensed puppy mills.
Denying Basic NeedsLike many states, Virginia has no kennel inspection program to ensure that dog breeders meet basic standards of animal care. HSUS investigators visited mills and pet stores across the state and found that even the most minimal state laws for adequate care and shelter were ignored.
Investigators found breeding dogs and puppies living in cramped, filthy cages, in urine-soaked trailers and in ramshackle kennels without basic sanitation, clean water, veterinary care or even the most primitive protection from the elements.
How You Can Help
Take the pledge to stop puppy mills.
Learn more and join The HSUS in our work to help stop the systematic abuse of dogs in puppy mills.
Learn more about how to avoid buying a puppy mill dog.
Buying a puppy? Check out our puppy buyers guide.
Want to adopt? Visit Proud 2 Adopt.
Flouting the Law
Some breeders were also breaking federal laws. To sell puppies to pet stores, facilities with more than three breeding females are required to have a license from the United States Department of Agriculture.
In Virginia, only a handful of dog breeders hold a USDA license; many of the unlicensed sell to pet stores, anyway.
Others bypassed pet stores altogether and sold directly to the public though classified ads and the Internet, where breeders are not required to have a license and can operate without any oversight whatsoever.
A Sick Business
All this out-of-control breeding has other consequences. Consumers find the market flooded with sickly puppies. Many buy a puppy who seems healthy, only to find out weeks or months later that their new pet has serious health problems.
And Virginia's puppy mills significantly contribute to the state's pet overpopulation crisis: last year, shelters in Virginia had to euthanize more than 42,000 dogs for lack of homes.
In Bad Company
Unless Virginia does something fast, it is destined to be known as the next puppy mill state. The HSUS urges legislators to require higher standards for breeding kennels within the state, as Virginia's puppy mill problem only accelerates a nation-wide epidemic.
Puppy mills all over the country are producing dogs much like Virginia—under the radar and out of sight. Legislators in all states can help stem this cruelty by requiring large-scale breeders to be licensed, inspected, and held to high standards.
What You Can Do
Meanwhile, The HSUS urges dog lovers everywhere to become part of the solution.
Perform your own inspection of any breeder from whom you are considering buying a pet. Pet stores love to tout that they buy only from "local breeders"—wooing potential spenders into thinking the pups came from a good situation. But "local breeders" can and often are local puppy mills.
Help stamp out the puppy mill trade entirely by choosing to adopt your next pet from a shelter or rescue group instead. There are millions of lovable animals across the country in need of a good home.
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You have to understand…HSUS is NOT the same as the Humane Society or ASPCA. HSUS is code name for PETA. These people are such hypocrites! A couple of years ago, the PETA chapter in Norfolk, VA got caught red-handed for disposing of THOUSANDS of euthanized dog and car carcasses into the dumpsters behind a local Piggly Wiggly supermarket. People thought they were bringing in stray dogs and cats to be rescued. Instead, these animals were systematically put to death.
