Pet Store Puppies - Problem

[Kebasmom]

When I was playing with the puppy the girl asked me how I knew about basenjis. When I told her I had one she asked me how much I paid for him. When I told her, she about flipped (it was WAY less than 1,800). I have a feeling the price on that puppy may drop. Interesting though was that the little silky terrier was only 1200. The basenji was the most expensive dog they had in there. I wonder how they decide what to charge….

[Quercus]

@torchsong:

She-Ra was a Petstore Basenji. However, I didn't go into the purchase completely blind. I knew about the dangers of petstore dogs, but had also researched the breed quite a bit (some neighbors had one when I was a kid and I'd always been fascinated with the quiet dog with the curly tail! ), so I knew some of what to expect.

She was $600, which sounds a bit closer to the mark for normal prices. The salespeople put us in an isolated room for about an hour with her to see if there was any kind of rapport with her. While we were getting to know her they provided her AKC (not ACC) papers and an updated list of the medications (vaccinations she'd already had and the ones she still needed as a puppy). In addition, they've maintained contact with us to see if the puppy is working out and what questions/issues we've had since taking ownership. They helped us get her microchipped and signed up to put our names on her AKC papers (I'm not planning to breed her so the latter part really wasn't that important to me).

Our family vet checked her over and said we must have gotten lucky, because (knock wood) she's in great health for her age. In no way would I suggest our pet store was one in a million, and I'm sure there's bad to go along with the good, but perhaps some actually do take steps to care for the animals in their charge?

In any event, she's my baby and I love her even when she chews up my books!

Sounds like you got really lucky, and it also sounds like your pet store is a little better than average! But the fact remains that dogs in pet stores come from puppy mills. And people who breed dogs for puppy mills don't do any genetic or physical health or temperament screening of the parents. So the health problems that *may occur wouldn't necessarily show up in the offspring for many years, as most Basenji diseases are late onset.

The other issue, as Diane pointed out, is that by paying for a pet store puppy, you are supporting an industry that is very, VERY cruel to dogs. Just ask Vegas (a regular poster here)….or go back to the thread about the puppymill rescue dogs here within the last six months or so. Sires and dams of pet store puppies are bred, and bred, and bred, with no regard for their physical health..they live in pens with the bare minimum needed for survival.

I am glad that your story is a happy one. And I KNOW you love your puppy very much, as you should, of course. But we can't, as dog loving people turn a blind eye to the cruelty and unacceptability of the pet store-puppymill situation.

When we know better, we do better

[Larka]

I've seen dogs that were rescued from puppymills. I've seen dogs that were thrown out of petstores because they weren't bought. I know of a petstore back in Nebraska that was shut down because they would drown or strangulate puppies that didn't sell past a certain point in time. And the price some people want is crazy. At the shelter I work for- I have dozens of puppies that are healthy, have all their shots that they can get for their age, the spay or neuter is in the price of the dog and so is a free vet visit- for $150. Or you can get the puppy in the window for a couple hundred and could have all kinds of issues. We get puppies in from stores that are just dropped off in boxes at the shelter because they got "too old" (5 or 6 months) and they weren't being sold. We have a handful of purebred dogs that even have their paper work, but they're at the shelter because they weren't bringing in money. Petstores see puppies as just another thing to sell.

Sorry, I'm ranting. I could go on a whole other rant about people always wanting puppies and not older dogs, but I'll spare you.

[torchsong]

@Quercus:

I am glad that your story is a happy one. And I KNOW you love your puppy very much, as you should, of course. But we can't, as dog loving people turn a blind eye to the cruelty and unacceptability of the pet store-puppymill situation.

I'm chalking it up to getting lucky at this point, but many of the horror stories I've heard on here don't seem to have happened…yet. Maybe I caught them on a good day.

I do know my experience wasn't anything like what I've been reading on here. Is it a fact that 100% of pet stores buy from puppy mills? I have been to some and yes, you can visually see the problems with some of the animals and it is heartbreaking. I guess I'm wondering if all pet stores should be lumped into the same category...it's not possible there are (and I'm using the term loosely) "honest" pet stores to exist?

[tanza]

@torchsong:

I'm chalking it up to getting lucky at this point, but many of the horror stories I've heard on here don't seem to have happened…yet. Maybe I caught them on a good day.

I do know my experience wasn't anything like what I've been reading on here. Is it a fact that 100% of pet stores buy from puppy mills? I have been to some and yes, you can visually see the problems with some of the animals and it is heartbreaking. I guess I'm wondering if all pet stores should be lumped into the same category...it's not possible there are (and I'm using the term loosely) "honest" pet stores to exist?

IMO, NO…. there is not a responsible breeder that would ever place a pup for sale in a pet store... no way, no how... Pet Store do not get puppies from responsible breeders... now granted they could buy from a local Backyard breeder... but that is not much better then a pet store....

[tanza]

@tanza:

IMO, NO…. there is not a responsible breeder that would ever place a pup for sale in a pet store... no way, no how... Pet Store do not get puppies from responsible breeders... now granted they could buy from a local Backyard breeder... but that is not much better then a pet store....

Sent that too soon…. pet store that buys from a puppymiller

[lvoss]

The bottom line is that for the petstore to make money and the "breeder" to make money then there is no way for the dogs in a pet store to be bred in a responsbile way. If you ask any responsible breeder what the cost of a responsibly bred litter is, there is no way to do it and make money without cutting costs somewhere and those places are going to be in the care of the dogs. Some petstores puppies may show visible signs of the low cost care they have recieved while others may not or may not show signs until many months or even years after you have brought the pup home.

Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

@lvoss:

Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?

We got Zahra from a petstore (I am smarter now and also a member of BRAT), they told us nothing about the breed other than it was barkless and showed us a book that had hundreds of breeds in it. The only health guarentee that they gave us was I think for the first 10 days that we had the dog or if the vet found something wrong. Even if that happened I think you got a store credit for the price of the dog when you returned the dog. Zahra had been there a while and was marked down to $1000 I got them to come down to $975 she was originally $1300.

There are only two pet stores that sell pets in the Hampton Roads area that I know of. I am sure that number could be less and we would all be happier but I am happy to see that not every mall in this area has a pet store.

[BasenjiDiva]

One of the problems is that many people have this naive belief that because a pet store is in a mall and has a sort of polished look about it, the dogs must be "better". I honestly think many people think a pet store is sort of a dog breeders' outlet store. They don't realize that isn't the case. Example: When my older son was 11, he wanted a snake. I convinced him to get an iquana instead. When he was 14, he was no longer interested in the iquana and it had grown quite large. We advertised it in the paper at a reasonable price and got a few calls but no bites. So we ended up selling it to a pet store in the mall - where they multiplied our price by 5 and sold it within hours! The guy who bought it was one of our telephone inquirers and he called us to ask if we would sell him our glass case because, he had decided it would be better to buy from the pet store where he could be better assured as to iguana's background. My husband "educated him" on how much his stupidity had cost him.

I don't think we have still have any pet stores around here that sell dogs. However, people here buy dogs from the flea market and they aren't cheap!! And I'd be willing to bet that they also come from puppy mills.

Pat

[elena86]

My brother and his wife bought Senji at a Petland at the mall for $700, including the crate. My sister-in-law read a little about basenjis…how they don't bark, are clean, etc, and decided that this is the dog she wanted. The petstore said that someone had actually "returned" him, and that they never get basenjis on a regular basis. They were also told that the "breeder" didn't want him because "all his markings were wrong." And that he wouldn't make a good show dog. The only thing that was wrong with him when they got him was some sort of growth on the back of his neck. The vet gave them some sort of ointment, and it went away. I ended up inheriting Senji when he was six. This past winter, at 11 years old, he almost died of liver disease. The vet thinks his liver problems may have been due to a congenital abnormality. He's doing much better now due to the meds, so hopefully, he'll be around a few more years.

[Larka]

@ChaseandZahrasmom:

I think you got a store credit for the price of the dog when you returned the dog.

I want "store credit" for a remote or something, not a life. And then what happens to the "returned" dog? The thought gives me chills. Even at the shelter, we get people who want to return a dog a get a refund. For why? Two of the guys had the dogs run away on them. Another one he just doesn't want the dog anymore. And now you want a refund from us because you can't take care of the dog? You just going to return your kids to the hospital when they don't listen or run away or you "just don't want them"? And then demand a refund from the doctor.

Sorry about that. I'm a little sore because we got kicked out of a Petsmart where we were doing adoptions because the Petland across the way was selling puppymill puppies and "we were taking their business. And they're an established company there and not just some non-profit."

[Duke]

@Larka:

Sorry about that. I'm a little sore because we got kicked out of a Petsmart where we were doing adoptions because the Petland across the way was selling puppymill puppies and "we were taking their business. And they're an established company there and not just some non-profit."

I don't quite understand this . . . Everyone has business taking care of business that other's do not. So why the big uproar over an adoption "across the street" (not advocating puppy millers)!?! Different story comletely…Just goes to show, again many people revolve without "common sense"!! This is a "sticky topic" so to speak.

I will never forget my earlier years when I've rescued and found homes of many pets to their owners. I knew that dogs wondering along the railways were someones pets. They were all (usually) intact male dogs. Once, I found out that (2) dogs that I happily reunited with their owners, subsequently deceased to heat exhaustion. The owners killed their dogs by not allowing relief! Today, I'm haunted by that reality. Many people don't think of a dog as a pet/family member. I am a pet friendly/family thinking person. I don't get any other thoughts. I think that puppy millers and pet stores don't have any more regard to the lives they sell, but for the profit they make.

[torchsong]

@lvoss:

Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?

Ummm…yes, yes, and yes.

I knew what Fanconi was, but my wife didn't. The pet store owner was adamant that we both know about that and went into detail on it. They showed us the AKC papers and the lineage of the dog, where they got it, the phone number and address of the breeder, their names, etc. Finally, yes, they did talk about how most diseases will now show up until after we've had the dog for some time. There were no health "guarantees" with this purchase.

Like I said, my experience was nothing like what I've been hearing about on here, and I'm not trying to paint a picture that these guys are saints or anything. It just seemed that my experience seemed to fly in the face of everything I'd known before going in as well as what I'm reading now.

[lvoss]

Showing you names for where they got the dogs and a written pedigree tells you nothing about the health of those dogs. I am glad to hear that they did tell you about the diseases in the breed and that most likely it would be several years before you knew if your dog might be affected but I would not say from the information you have provided that they gave you anything that would allow you to make an assessment of the risk of your puppy. Did the pedigree show OFA numbers? CERF numbers? Strip Test information? Did they tell you the cost of treatment if your dog was later diagnosed with any of the inherited diseases?

Even if they told you about these things, did they also tell you about puppy developmental stages? Did they say how critical socialization, handling, and time with dam and littermates is? Most puppies in the petstore sell best at a time when they really should still be with their dam and siblings learning bite inhibition and proper dog language.

How about if you can not keep the dog at some time in the future? What responsibility is the petstore willing to take? Are they going to take it back and see that it is rehomed? Will it end up in a shelter or rescue? If so will they donate the money to pay for it to be rehomed? That is part of being responsible also. Making sure every puppy you produce has a home for life and being responsible for rehoming it if the home doesn't work out.

I have never seen a petstore that can meet the criteria for Responsible Breeder because they either do not have or will not give full health information for the parents and grandparents of the dogs, they will not take responsibility for adult dogs that are given up when they are no longer wanted, and they can not meet the socialization requirements for best raising puppies. This does not mean that some do not do better than others but they are not and can not meet the requirements for responsible.

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.

All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?

[tanza]

@ChaseandZahrasmom:

There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.

All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?

Why don't you contact your local Basenji club? They might have information that you can leave at the store for anyone buying the pups…. or maybe one of the members can drop off information about Basenjis...

How much were they selling them for?

[ChaseandZahrasmom]

@tanza:

How much were they selling them for?

I just called they are selling them for $965, they were born 8/15/07 and are brother and sister.

[tanza]

@ChaseandZahrasmom:

I just called they are selling them for $965, they were born 8/15/07 and are brother and sister.

Gezz… even for California that is high... especially for pet store, puppy mill puppies... makes responsible breeders "cringe".....

[JazzysMom]

@tanza:

Gezz… even for California that is high... especially for pet store, puppy mill puppies... makes responsible breeders "cringe".....

So, what would be the going rate in California.

From breeders in WA, I think the going rate is in the neighborhood of $900.

I have no idea what a pet store would charge..

[youngandtired]

I got my furbaby from the mall and she cost me $1,200 and I am so glad I got her. If I had not been there I would have not gotten to know this breed. I know pet stores are not the place to get a pup, but I didn't know then about puppy mills. The fact remains that I got introduced to this wonderful breed through a pet store and I sure am glad I did.