@jkent - And most likely marking her place in the house... (since you were doing work and changing things). I don't call that "spite" more like confussion... but that is just my opinion
My B does things out of spite all the time, he knows what he is doing cause he goes for the things he knows upsets me when he does it. Like scratching my antique footstool, tearing leaves off my bagonia, which i have to have a fence around now. Pulling plastic bags out of the bag basket, throwing coasters off the table next to my husbands chair. I could go on but then you say they don't do things for spite. Oh there is one more thing that is kinda funny he shuts the basement gate on his fur sister so she can't get upstairs.
My experiences were both one offs, once when I was exceedingly late coming home while living at my parents' house with my first Basenji. She had been out to relieve herself at her usual time and left in my room, which was normal routine and it was not the first time I had been home after my parents had retired. I climbed into bed to find a wet spot where she had peed. Never did it again. Second time I have related here before, when my husband and I were arguing and my second Basenji jumped onto the bed between us and peed. Maybe not spite, per se, but it certainly broke up the argument! And again, it was the one and only time she relieved herself on furniture.
My boy Perry defecated on the couch a few times when we were out, in the early days with his separation anxiety issues. I honestly don't think he was deliberate in this, just upset, and I had previously witnessed him pooping when excited and running around, and not apparently even aware he had done it......no hesitation, so squatting, just shot out of him like a horse while running! An upset dog may let go while excited, but otherwise I would wonder why it would be on the couch.
@hizbaby Awww Willy is so cute, a few bad choices that’s all.
Your little girl is really pretty. She would make my heart melt. Secondly, I feel your pain. My 13 month old male will pee on my bed when he gets angry with me. I have one room in my son's home for us to have to ourselves and share the remainder of the house as we wish with the rest of the family. If Prince feels spiteful, he will pee on my bed, and look me straight in the eye. Usually if I have reprimanded him for something or if he feels like I have not given him enough attention...which sometimes can happen since I am responsible for all household errands and helping with laundry (which responsibility he shares with me) and taking grandsons to appts. So I may be out of house multiple times during the day. I have discovered, for example that he doesn't mind being in his crate for 3 hours at a time, but he draws the line at being there 3 times for 30 min each time. In other words, put there one time for a longer period of time as opposed to multiple times for shorter periods of time. He will mark my bed then or when I have reprimanded him for chewing on my furniture he will mark my bed. I have found I have to say "do not chew" and spray with a non-chewing substance for him not to retaliate. he just marked my bed two days ago, twice within 30 min and I haven't figured that one out yet. I cannot keep him off the bed because of room layout...he does not sleep on my bed, but does jump up easily and loves to sit on it for the height...after all he is the Prince and must survey his realm. He sleeps in his crate beside the bed. He has been neutered.
@isabob said in (Vengeful?) Pottying On The Couch!:
but then you say they don't do things for spite
Oh yes they do !!!! That is why you make a song and dance, scream and cry when they do something unimportant, like throwing cushions on the floor.
When they want to punish you, they will have learned what makes you really upset - and they will throw cushions on the floor.
On the other hand, they chew your only pair of spectacles with very expensive frames and you scarcely react. They know there is no point in eating the replacement pair, it doesn't upset you !
@daureen said in (Vengeful?) Pottying On The Couch!:
he doesn't mind being in his crate for 3 hours at a time, but he draws the line at being there 3 times for 30 min
Isn't there some way for you to take him with you run a short errand or two?
My arrangement with doodle: If I'm going to the store, doodle gets her walk first and stays home. If I'm being a taxi (pick up or drop off), she comes with me. And if I have a lot of places where I just run in for one thing, she can wait in the car for me. Weather permitting. She never waits in the car during extreme (hot or cold) days. This way she isn't always left behind.
At one point I set up a camera to find out what doodle was up to while I was gone. My spy feed showed me that once I left, doodle jumps up onto my bed and goes to sleep. When I slide the key in the lock to open the door, she makes a mad dash to greet me. 
this girl!!!
She has me very well trained!
@zande said in (Vengeful?) Pottying On The Couch!:
@isabob said in (Vengeful?) Pottying On The Couch!:
but then you say they don't do things for spite
Oh yes they do !!!! That is why you make a song and dance, scream and cry when they do something unimportant, like throwing cushions on the floor.
When they want to punish you, they will have learned what makes you really upset - and they will throw cushions on the floor.
You seem to have recovered well from your surgery. Congrats!
If we can't agree that Basenjis can be "spiteful" then perhaps we can agree that they can engage in "pointed messaging" which can involve behaviors known to "get their owner's attention". LOL
Never thought of your solution. It's brilliant. Not sure I could pull it off but it is brilliant.
We had Cinny for about six months before she stopped going on the furniture (which we had put waterproof covers on). It was maddening, but we just rolled with it and figured it was an adjustment for her as well as for us. I did a lot of laundry during that time. She was either really excited or scared - or both. She also let loose on the floor when I'd come home from shopping. But evntually she stopped doing it. They really do want to please their people, and it was important for me to remember that!
@donc ok, maybe spiteful is the wrong word. But they do have a sense of right and wrong and what is fair.
And sometimes Mom does deserve to be punished. I just give them a way to do it which satisfies their sense of fair play but doesn't do damage !
Thank you, yes, both eyes have healed well and work well together for things at a distance. Anything closer than about 5 feet is blurry. Makes driving a pleasure but using my phone, reading, eating, cooking, working on the computer etc, all require different strength reading glasses. In 3 weeks I can go and have them tested for prescription glasses to correct the astigmatism.
And hopefully help me to see close up.
I can't take Prince with me as he gets really upset when in the car -- terrible pooping all over. I have used his crate, and this does not help. If I hold him when someone else drives, he just about tears me apart with his tromping and stomping. I have used "thunder shirts' and anti anxiety OTC pills with no relief. The odor is terrible worse than normal "poop". The vet does not want to give him meds for cars; "Zande" how do you allow your pups to "punish Mom"?
@daureen First of all, have you tried Rescue Remedy ? It is a herbal which I get from human health food stores. Comes with a dropper in the lid and a dropper full into the side of the mouth about 30 minutes before travelling in the car can work wonders. They don't care for it, some kind of sharp content ? but over the years I have had the occasional Basenji who didn't care for the car (they ALWAYS rode in big crates !) and I've found it works wonders.
I spaced the whole pack out on it on Bonfire Night each year (5th November here) and no-one ever minded the bangs !
Mine usually go the shredded newspaper route when I have been particularly mean and deserve punishment. The daily papers tend to get put onto the kitchen table and if there is a bit hanging over they can reach, it gets pulled down to the floor and demolished. But not often, I am a fairly acceptable Mom and don't need punishing very much !
Now I am with only two - Kito is far too small (10.5 weeks or so) and Mku far too tolerant of both me AND the puppy !
Thanks a lot
@hizbaby if you figure this out, please do tell. My pup, 10 weeks, does this and I am certain it is vengeful. It started with crate training. When we'd put her in the crate she'd throw a fit. If we left her be, she would eventually get super hysterical and then just poop in the crate.
My wife would then make me take her out to clean the crate. I wondered if she started to learn that pooping resulted in getting her out of the crate - therefore - pooping = attention and time away from crate. So we got a pen and left the door to the crate open, this resulted in her moving her poop from the crate to the pen when angry we didn't let her out.
Now, she's having trouble with the biting feet thing and we've been working through this. One of the solutions we've read, is the that you give her a time out. Well, we've also read that you shouldn't put a B in a crate as a form of punishment, because they will associate bad times with the crate and hate it more. So to have a "time out" place, I took all the possibly dangerous things out of the half bath we have downstairs and started using it as the time out place.
This is today. Three times I asked her to stop nipping at people's feet. Three times she ignored me. So I picked her up, put her in the half bath and closed the door. She's throw a fit and I'd let her out when she calmed down. On the fourth time, I opened the door and low and behold poop in the corner. I let her out, cleaned it up, and put her back for another time out.
Thankfully, this time she seems to be behaving. But there is no doubt in my mind now, that she does this when she's displeased.
@ntasd - She has no idea why she is being locked in a room? Biting feet is what she would do with her littermates and remember now your scent replaces her littermates, so you need to yelp loud and I do mean loud... and turn you back to her with a firm no... each and every time she does that and replace with a toy/chewy that she can have...asking her to stop will not cut it.... Are you putting her in the crate when you are there? If so, she wants to be with you... Are you feeding her in her crate? Is she sleeping in her crate? And is that crate in your bedroom? They want to be with you. Have you talked to her breeder?
Hi @tanza, thanks for the reply. I shortened want I did to "asked her to stop." We yelp, turn our heads away from her and then firmly say no every time. She does not stop. Most of the literature that we've read suggest that if she doesn't curtail her biting after 3 or 4 times of this full process, you give her a time out. So that's what played out. The only piece of your suggestion we're not doing is the chew toy, because she doesn't have any interest in them. Every time we try to distract her with a chew toy, she drops and goes right back to biting feet.
We only crate her at night. Because she has separation anxiety, we've started putting her in her play pen outside for 5 mins at a time and our plan is to increase the time out there over time.
We are feeding her in her create. We get into her play pen with her and play so that she associates the pen with good times. We've bought a stuffed toy that has a heart beat sound and pulse in order to give her the comfort of other pups/her mom in the crate.
She is sleeping in her crate. The crate issue is starting to work itself out. It's been a while since she's done eliminated in her crate.
I was sharing with hizbaby, that the behavior she described seems to mirror what my little lady is doing. She eliminates when she's upset.
@ntasd said in (Vengeful?) Pottying On The Couch!:
We yelp, turn our heads away from her and then firmly say no every time.
Perhaps addressing the issue before it happens?
Your pup is teething, the same way a human baby would teeth. Everything that can go into the mouth does. So, let's focus on relieving the pain... take a washcloth (not the good ones!), soak it, then wring it out. Leave it twisted up like a rope and toss it into the freezer. When your pup nips you, say "no", then offer the frozen washcloth and say "here, bite this".
If you need to make the washcloth more attractive, you can smear peanut butter on it, or soak it with chicken broth. There are ways to make it a better treat. Your choice, but the primary goal is to be able to praise your pup for choosing to chew on the "right thing". Which is obviously not your ankles!
IMO a "time out" isn't the way to address this. If she bites feet and doesn't stop when you yelp (Yea, squeaky toy!) then physically prevent her from continuing the biting. She's a pup, not a 100 lb dog, just bear hug her until she quits, then immediately let her go and praise. Rinse, repeat (if she does). No crates when you are available to supervise. Spend time with her, teach her what is "legal", what is not. Sounds like perhaps this pup was removed from Mom and siblings a bit early since she is not responding to your cues. She needs to learn what actions are off limits, as her mother would teach her.
@ntasd said in (Vengeful?) Pottying On The Couch!:
We get into her play pen with her and play so that she associates the pen with good times.
She should also associate the crate with something other than punishment, poor little girl. You do seem to have got off on the wrong foot with her. Try to gain her confidence, play with her around the house, not just in the playpen. She is part of your family now. She shouldn't feel the need to behave like she does.
I don't know if I'm typing in another language or if I've just upset the collective forum. We NEVER punish her in her play pen ever. She have never been put in time out in her play pen. That pen is being used for: 1) the place where her crate is at night so that we can leave the crate open as that seems to make her more comfortable; 2) a place where we play and enjoy each other together in addition to our playtime outside the pen; 3) a place we are using to help build up her ability to be away from us slowly. We're currently doing 5 minute intervals.
All that we do is play with her around the house. In every room downstairs. Heck she even goes into the bathroom with the girls when they go. Obviously we work, so there are times she's not being played with, but for those times she's mostly in her bed (a separate bed in the same room as us, not the crate.) I take her on 3, 20 minute walks every day, (I have to limit those to just side walks because she hasn't gotten her third set of vaccines yet). When I said we play in the play pen, it was because we play so much with her outside of the pen, that I worried she would see the pen as a boring ho hum place where she ends the night and therefore would start to resist going into the pen.
We may not be a perfect B household, this is our first one, but we care very much for her and we're trying are absolute best to build a warm, loving, and trusting home for her. That will happen over time and we'll be patient. More patient than this forum.
