New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.

[elbrant]

@tanza said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

Fanconi for a 4 month old will NOT happen...

If (through breeding) Fanconi was possible, what would be the right age for reliable test results?

[tanza]

@elbrant Fanconi is late onset... so typically 3 to 5yrs or older, certainly not a 4 month old... early that I have ever heard of in 30+ years is one that was 2yrs and as late as 10 to 12 yrs. Reliable DNA tests are from birth as long as you get a good cheek swab... so typically breeders test at 6 to 8 wks... and they are totally reliable... This would be IMO a UTI or if this was a real early spay there could have be issues...

[Zande]

@tanza said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

if this was a real early spay there could have be issues...

Tanza has a good point here - and early spay can cause these sort of issues. And not just in puppyhood but for life. Let's hope that is not the case here !

[DonC]

@tanza said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

@fjd89 - Just to make sure you should take a sample to your Vet to check... regardless... make sure it is a fresh sample... good luck

In my experience the vet/hospital will take the sample. Probably better collection with less chance of contamination. In this case with urination so frequent it may be somewhat challenging to get.

Even in puppies vets will usually think "Fanconi" with a Basenji. It's just availability bias -- that Basenjis get Fanconi is one of the few things they know about the breed. :frowning_face:

[tanza]

@donc - Reason that if your Vet doesn't know about Fanconi, you take them the write up... found on www.basenji.org... not that all will read it, but at least you are giving them the details. And yes better collection is by the Vet, but for now with the issues going on, at least a collection by owners is better than nothing... buy a small container, wash and dry and use that. Try to collect and if you can't take to the Vet immediately, put in the frig till you can...

[tanza]

@donc - and another thing, since we have DNA testing for Fanconi and the pup was tested or that the parents were tested, another reason to educate the Vet...

[Zande]

@donc said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

In my experience the vet/hospital will take the sample

Over here the vet will give you a sterile container and ask you to catch the first, earliest pee of the morning. Relatively easy with a boy, less so with a girl. And you need to take care so they don't immediately cease the flow !

Few vets are trained in 'Basenji' - which is why we always handed copious notes to new puppy-people with a request they start training their vet before anything serious occurred. We have 3 South African vets at the Practise I use (and one Brit) - they will all go away and google or read up on anything I ask them to. So, after many years of my training (!) I am confident that at need they will rise to the occasion.

btw, tanza, I was always lead to believe that refrigeration degraded the sample, but I could be wrong ?

[tanza]

That is what I have been told also, if you are not going to be able to take to the vet right away, refrigeration.

[Zande]

@tanza said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

That is what I have been told also, if you are not going to be able to take to the vet right away, refrigeration.

But our vets say refrigeration degrades the sample. i.e. spoils it, renders it less viable, tanza. So not advised.

Early morning pee and drop the same straight in to the Vet's office.

Someone once suggested, if difficult to get enough, one could collect, refrigerate, collect more, add it, back to the fridge. Until enough was obtained. But it would be useless indeed, constant change of temperature. . .

[tanza]

@zande - Just going by all the Vets I have used over the years. Yes, best to take it in immediately however if you (like me) are collecting first morning pee, Vets are not open at 6am.... LOL. I fully agree however with your last statement about adding to the sample. And also on that note, you don't need much, I never found that I couldn't get enough. But on the other had, if possible, the best is to have the Vet do the collections.

[DonC]

@zande said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

@donc said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

In my experience the vet/hospital will take the sample

Over here the vet will give you a sterile container and ask you to catch the first, earliest pee of the morning. Relatively easy with a boy, less so with a girl. And you need to take care so they don't immediately cease the flow !

Here that's the procedure for a standard urine sample -- a midstream catch. And yes, boys in this case are easier than girls. However, in my experience if they're looking for a UTI in a puppy they want to use cystocentesis to retrieve the sample. I know that involves putting a needle through the bladder wall, but I've never witnessed the procedure. Might be different with an adult as opposed to a puppy because of the difference in volume, but the sample obtained through cystocentesis will be more reliable so perhaps not. Personally if I want to rule things out or in I greatly prefer the most sensitive and specific test. If there is a history then I might go with the easier to do test, but initially I wouldn't want to go in this direction. (No doubt the procedure is not fun, but I'm thinking puppies are more resilient and forget unpleasantness more easily. Better once and done that having less certainty and having to go down a bunny trail or two).

A colder environment always slows a chemical process, so I'd think refrigeration would be better than room temperature. But that's for a standard urine sample. Might be different if they were specifically looking for a UTI or similar. For whatever reason dogs seem to want to pee as soon as they get out of the car at the vet's, so there is that.

[elbrant]

@donc said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

For whatever reason dogs seem to want to pee as soon as they get out of the car at the vet's, so there is that.

"oh no! I didn't know about the party! I better leave my calling card so they tell me about the next one!" ;)

[Zande]

@donc OK, yes, I agree entirely - hadn't thought about the need for the more accurate, invasive, test for UTI in puppies. Its not something I've ever had to do / have done. Thanks for the pointers !

But Basenjis always need to pee as soon as they get out of the car - not just at the vet's ! When I used to show a great deal and travelled with another breeder, I'd drive to her house which was a good five minutes from mine. In order to maintain harmony, her dog(s) - usually two - would have to be put into the car first. Mine had to be got out - and walked up the road a tad, when they would pee copiously.

That they had done so 6 or 7 minutes previously, before being put into the car - never mind. Car stops. We get out. We pee. And this applied to both sexes.

There is a sharp turn and a steep slope leading to the parking area behind my vet's - One and all, over the years, have started to scream Get me OUT of here ! the instant I turn the car into the driveway !

tanza - obviously your dogs get up in the morning a lot earlier than mine do ! LOL

[DonC]

@elbrant said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

"oh no! I didn't know about the party! I better leave my calling card so they tell me about the next one!" ;)

@zande said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

That they had done so 6 or 7 minutes previously, before being put into the car - never mind. Car stops. We get out. We pee. And this applied to both sexes.

You guys are funny though you speak the absolute truth!

@zande said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

tanza - obviously your dogs get up in the morning a lot earlier than mine do ! LOL

Might have something to do with the frequency of rainy mornings. LOL

[tanza]

@donc - Zande... nothing to do with rainy mornings... that is when I get up for work

[Zande]

We have had no rain for 6 or so weeks, none at all, ground is cracking up, grass becoming brown.

I have been encouraging Mku to do a rain-dance. He likes to spend a long time standing on his back legs, boxing with me so it was worth a try -

This morning it worked ! RAIN is actually falling from the sky. Mku is not amused. I am not going outdoors in THAT - I'll DROWN. Mom, have mercy !!

But out he goes ! Mom is totally heartless -

[DonC]

@zande said in New puppy, suddenly peeing a lot.:

This morning it worked ! RAIN is actually falling from the sky. Mku is not amused. I am not going outdoors in THAT - I'll DROWN. Mom, have mercy !!

But out he goes ! Mom is totally heartless -

You are heartless! A regular Cruella de Vil.

Better be careful or Mku will have a lawyer and a list of grievances. Happened to a friend of ours. They had a friend (who is a lawyer) stay in their place and watch their dog when they left town for a few weeks. When they got back they were handed two official looking documents: The first was "A List of Grievances"; the second was A List of Demands. Both were very detailed (and funny).

Priceless.

[Zande]

@donc It got worse. . . the grass became wet and I made him walk through it !
Poor Mku.

But you have given us a task for these work-free days. Composing just the sort of legal document, written by the dog, as your lawyer friend wrote.

btw - I am just kidding when I use the words 'work-free' - not many of those.