Fanconi vs Renal Failure?

[JoeyQ]

Joey was diagnosed with renal failure. He did not present with any symptoms until about 3 weeks ago and is Stage 3 (he drinks a lot and has tremors). My vet does not have experience with Fanconi Syndrome. I do want to be sure that he is getting the best care at this point. I am weaning him to renal diet. (He hates is but will eventually gobble it up when he gets hungry enough. His basic blood panel is normal except for the renal. I'm looking into CBD for pain management. Anyone with suggestions?

[JoeyQ]

This is from JoeyQ - He is almost 12 1/2 yrs old. The vet suggested kidney care by Hills. His appetite is good, no vomiting, still active, seems to see and hear ok. It seems like this just came out of nowhere! Over one year ago he had his teeth cleaned and before had expanded bloodwork done. All was normal. The vet commented that he was in great shape then at 11 years old!

[Rocky1]

Special "kidney diets" are nothing but garbage,read the label,is it any wonder your dog won't eat it.
Start feeding a raw diet,start with raw ground beef and a handful of veg. and a tablespoon of coconut oil. Dogs in renal failure need good quality protein from animal sources,not the garage in these high priced specialty diets.

[DebraDownSouth]

While I hate the companies that make the foods, when it comes to things like renal failure, it is hard to do a diet on your own that is as precise.

In the old days we were told high protein could cause kidney failure. They now have found that very high is bad, but high is okay.

Once in kidney failure, lower protein is critical... so it's important that your dog get good quality.

Tufts university gives a good synopsis
http://vetnutrition.tufts.edu/2016/05/my-pet-has-kidney-disease-what-kind-of-diet-should-i-feed/

For a bit more technical on why protein reduction is necessary:
http://veterinarynews.dvm360.com/renal-diets-veterinary-patients-what-feed-and-when-start

There are nutrition experts who can, with your vet's input, help you to design a homemade diet. Just be careful. With your dog's dx, the 2 things that can help him feel better and live longer are diet and sub-q fluids.

We lost Arwen at 12 1/2. She was great, then early kidney failure, suddenly total failure less than 4 months after initial dx. However she had autoimmune problems and had been on steroids nearly 8 years.

[JoeyQ]

@debradownsouth Thank you very much!!

[JoeyQ]

@rocky1 Thank you for your input!

[JoeyQ]

@rocky1 He had food left in his bowl tonight which is not normal so I added a finger tip of organic cold pressed unrefined coconut oil to it. He devoured it and jumped around for joy wagging his tail!! He has not had any weight loss to date. I'd like to balance slowing his decline with keeping some quality of life.

[JoeyQ]

This post is deleted!

[JoeyQ]

Joey doesn't like paparazzi

[Zande]

@rocky1 said in Fanconi vs Renal Failure?:

Special "kidney diets" are nothing but garbage,read the label,is it any wonder your dog won't eat it.

My Firbi developed kidney disease as a 12'5 year old. On the Vet's recommendation we bought Hill's but after one meal, there was no way he would eat it and in the end the Vet told us to give him whatever he WOULD eat because we shouldn't let him starve. So we gave him raw food with his normal diet and took care that he maintained his weight. More, smaller, meals each day helped too.

We had him with us for about 6 months after the initial diagnosis but in the end he just gave up and I had to call the vet and go down the garden with a spade. Our Vet comes to the house. I would never send a dog on that last lonely journey among strangers. They breathe their last at home, in my arms and are buried here in the garden.

[JoeyQ]

@debradownsouth I know this is difficult to say, but how often on average did you do subq liquid?

[Anna]

What a handsome boy! I hope everything works out for both of you. I had a cat that had renal failure and we were giving subcutaneous fluids and oral potassium gel. The subcutaneous fluids were difficult because the volume was large and the needle was very big. It didn’t hurt Stuart at all but I felt horrible doing it. My husband would hold him and I would just pinch his skin and insert the needle underneath, then squeeze the IV bag so it would empty faster. We were giving anywhere from 500 to 1000 mls once a day. This was about 4 years ago so I am not sure of the exact amount. I

[Anna]

Sorry, I had to reply again because I can’t get the cursor to stay on the line. It keeps going between the lines. Anyway, Stuart tolerated the SQ fluids very well. We also put him on a special renal diet made by Hills. If you have any other questions that I might be able to answer, please feel free to ask. I also noticed that you titled your post Fanconi vs Renal Failure. I have a Basenji that has Fanconi Syndrome. If you have any questions about specific tests to determine if the Fanconi Syndrome is what caused the renal failure I will answer whatever I can. Good luck and hang in there!

[JoeyQ]

@anna Thank you for the information. Wow! I had no idea SQ fluids would be needed once a day. He had a "pack" on his back once before many years ago for another issue. Does the vet show you how to administer and how does one determine the pet's hydration status? And yes, how would I know if Fanconi caused the renal failure or it is just old age?

[tanza]

@joeyq - I have had more than one with late age renal failure, not Fanconi. SubQ fluids were used once a day or every other day. Vet Techs will be able to show you how to give fluids at home. I used my grooming table with a grooming arm/noose. My Basenjis were used to this so I could give the fluids myself. I would hang the fluids on the on the arm. If you don't have a groom table with grooming arm, you can search to find one.

[JoeyQ]

Does anyone know why he is having twitching/tremors? Is this from electrolyte imbalance? Is there anything that can be done to relieve or minimize them?

[JoeyQ]

@tanza Great Info. I'm a bit frustrated with my vet. She did not suggest subq fluids nor any treatment/care for the twitching. Any dog can have renal failure. Hmmm.

[Anna]

Yes, the veterinarian showed us how to give the SQ fluids and it was very easy. @tanza had a great idea using a grooming table. I just put Stuart on a table so it would be easier for me to give the fluids. I know with Lily that she had glucose in her urine but her blood glucose was normal. She also had certain venous blood gases that were not in normal range. All of this combined led my veterinarian to diagnose her with Fanconi Syndrome. Her HCO3 was below normal, her TCO2 was very low, and her pH was low. From what I understand, with kidney failure there is a low urine specific gravity, an increase in protein in the urine, and sometimes the blood urine nitrogen (BUN) and blood creatinine (CREA) are elevated depending on how much kidney function is compromised. So from what I can see there are different things that they look for in the blood work and urine analysis. I hope some of this information helps and doesn’t confuse you more. There is a great article written by Dr. JD Foster, staff veterinarian and director of hemodialysis at UPenn Veterinary Hospital (Ryan Veterinary Hospital). It is in todaysveterinarypractice.navc.com and the title is canine chronic kidney disease. It was written in September/October 2013 but the information might still be relevant. Hope this helps and good luck!

[JoeyQ]

@anna Thank you, Anna! I am familiar with the blood work and urinalysis info.

[DebraDownSouth]

@joeyq said in Fanconi vs Renal Failure?:

@debradownsouth I know this is difficult to say, but how often on average did you do subq liquid?

With her only every 3 days. Like I said, first was early, did subq only as support. I often wish I had done daily and probably given her more time. My vet was shocked at how fast.

However my first basenji, during chemo, had to do it daily. If I ever had to do daily again, if they hated it like my first dog, I would have a port put in.