This popped up on Facebook... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10157403056409731&set=a.10150936620199731&type=3&theater&ifg=1
4mo old Black and White Basenji girl for sale!
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You are right Andrea, it IS misleading.
Danielle is referring to the recent re-test on Charlie. I am sure everyone remembers when I was so excited that the entire liter he was in tested as p. Fanconi Clear. It was a 1/64 chance for all 5 pups from a Carrier x Clear breeding to have come up p. Fanconi Clear.
The litter I had this year was Charlie [Benny grandson[ to Maya [Benny daughter]. With Charlie CLEAR and Maya a CARRIER, there should have been no worries.
Unfortunately, test results gave me 1 clear, 2 carriers and 1 affected. This prompted an immediate re-test [new swabs] of all 4 puppies, plus both sire and dam. When Charlie came back as a Carrier I was DEVASTATED.
While I was upset about having an Affected, what bothered me the most was that I used him for breeding based on his Clear status.
Three breedings. One to a Carrier in July that didn't take [thank goodness].
One of my Carrier bitch in October.
And one to Danielle's Clear bitch in October.I am tired of listening to her complain that she has to test her pups and I did not inform her of his status.
He WAS Clear at the time, TO MY KNOWLEDGE.
The retesting only came back in the past 2 weeks…
not much can be done now, but whining because she did not respond to my requests to contact me did not get her the information when she would have known about it before it was re-posted on OFA.There have been VERY FEW OF THESE INSTANCES. Making blank statements about multiple lab errors is misleading to the public about the test.
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Again as noted this is a linkage test only… it is not a direct test. And there is always room for human error. While there is not one person here that would want happen what happened with Kathy's boy... it makes it clear that we must keep in mind that this is a linkage test. It is better then how we did it in the past....
Yes, there is more work to be done and all Basenji owners should asking the question to BCOA, were are we now? What is the plan? What do we need to do to get to the direct gene. It is every owners responsbility to be involved, not just breeders.
Oh and just to add, Kathy certainly is doing the responsible thing by testing pups from what she thought was a Clear to Carrier breeding and all breeders should be doing... Hence why all B's should be DNA tested, it validates the linkage test so far OR shows results that are not expected and need to be researched further for the reason. There is no such thing as "Clear" by breeding at this time.
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Actually I was never given the results of him being a carrier. I have no record of it. I was told he was clear before I took Kiya to get bred. I was very adamant that I breed Kiya to a clear male. Am I upset? Yes but I understand that the tests are coming out wrong now, which makes me worry about the future of these tests and future breedings with ANY Basenji.
Well aren't you the conscientious breeder! You sent your dog to breed to a dog that
1. was too young to OFA
2. YOU didn't bother to check his status?Should the breeder probably have retested before breeding? Hindsight is a lovely thing… and the ONLY good thing is her situation will surely help others to consider retesting adults before breeding, just to be sure.
Airing stuff like this doesn't make Kathy look bad, it makes you look like you truly lack social skills or savvy. Discuss issues with her, not on a forum.
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Pat is correct that all pups need to be tested even if both the sire and dam tested clear. I would not buy a pup from a breeder without being tested. I also tell anyone who is interested in buying a B pup that the pup needs to be tested even if the parents have.
Jennifer
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Pat is correct that all pups need to be tested even if both the sire and dam tested clear. I would not buy a pup from a breeder without being tested. I also tell anyone who is interested in buying a B pup that the pup needs to be tested even if the parents have.
Jennifer
Well, I defer a bit here Jennifer… while they need to be tested, I am not so sure that a P.Clear to P.Clear would be something that all breeders would buy into. Unless both tests on the parents are totally out of wack, worst you would have is a P.Carrier.
That said, I would agree that the parents even should be tested before breeding even is their sire and dam's were P.Clear to P.Clear.
I think that some responsibility should be on the new owners.
My take is if you breed a P.Carrier to a P.Clear, the breeder should test the pups... if a P.Clear to P.Clear, if the breeder wants to great, if not the new pup owners should.
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Been a long day at work and I am reading this and am not sure what her fanconi status is. Did I miss that?
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Been a long day at work and I am reading this and am not sure what her fanconi status is. Did I miss that?
Sharon,
As per Kathy the dog was first tested a P.Clear.. she used this dog for her own breeding and since the breeding was a P.Clear or P.Carriers tested the pups… 1 P.Clear, 2 P.Carriers, 1 P.Affected. She questioned those results because it was not what was expected. It was a P.Clear to P.Carrier which should have resulted in P.Carriers at worst. She retested the pups and the Male... the male came back the second time as P.Carrier. This was way after both the breedings happened
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Thank you Pat.
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It's unfortunate that a pup came out affected regardless of the situation. I do however agree that it DOESN'T make Kathy look bad or irresponsible. We ALL know the risks of Fanconi in the breed (or at least we should) and we should all be aware there are no guarantees.
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This is what I stated from the beginning-the test is not infallible and should be used in conjunction with a pedigree. But that being said, there is always, always room for error and mistakes do happen. It seems everyone went into the breeding in good faith, but a mistake happened. Why this should make anyone afraid of the future of the tests or the breeding of any basenji is beyond me. Not one person has said to rely on this test wholeheartedly. It seems to have happened, nothing can be done about it, except learn from it, and move on from there. You can be adamant about wanting a clear stud all you want-mistakes will happen irregardless.
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Nomrbddgs: It's not and I will take care to be more careful from now on. It's a sad mistake that we didn't know about until long after I bred Kiya and after Kathy bred Maya.
When I see something is amiss and I know that it is something that is important to be known to a community I make it public. For the remark about ethics that was about -ME- not Kathy. I wish people would try to read the positive in the words not read into things that don't exist.
This got more information to the community about the testing and that is a good thing. Kathy and I have both been forthcoming on information about our dogs.
As for the information posted on my site, I have decided to not breed to any dog that is under age 2 or OFA health tested yes. I didn't realize making that clear on my site was dirty laundry to be aired.
Debra: Do not make remarks on people's character when you don't understand the situation fully. It reflects poorly on you, not the person you insult.
I listened to a seasoned breeder as a new breeder and believed her when she told me that a 1yr old was a good match for my girl. He is a fine dog, I never will say otherwise. I love my puppies and I'm grateful for the wonderful temperament that they have inherited from their parents and the compliments that are showing through from the match.
The issue was that after I made this thread and someone inquired about the puppy's parents and their health I had to discover he was a carrier on OFA and not from the breeder. Perhaps she didn't have enough time to inform me, but I didn't know that and I felt very wounded by this. So yes I made it public. I am all for full disclosure; especially when it concerns health and especially when it concerns the dogs in my breeding program.
If anyone knew anything about me they would know that I am a very caring, concerned dog mom and my puppies are well taken care of.
I have already mentioned that mistakes have been made and further witch hunting is not 'socially savvy' and I ask it to stop.
**Please I ask that this thread go back to the original topic. A very sweet, happy4mo old black and white puppy is looking for a companion home. She loves people of all ages, dogs, cats and even ferrets!
More pictures to come soon!
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I really hope you find a wonderful home for your puppy. Best of luck.
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Debra: Do not make remarks on people's character when you don't understand the situation fully. It reflects poorly on you, not the person you insult.
The issue was that after I made this thread and someone inquired about the puppy's parents and their health I had to discover he was a carrier on OFA and not from the breeder. Perhaps she didn't have enough time to inform me, but I didn't know that and I felt very wounded by this. So yes I made it public. I am all for full disclosure; especially when it concerns health and especially when it concerns the dogs in my breeding program.
I have already mentioned that mistakes have been made and further witch hunting is not 'socially savvy' and I ask it to stop.
Again, you are the one attacking the other breeder, continuing to make comments like the above, and the you ask others to stop? You stop, others will. You claim she didn't contact you, she said you didn't respond to her requests. One is not being honest, no one can prove who, but really… class shows.
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Have you sold your pup yet? Fanconi free?
Thanks,
Janet -
Annandael: Might you post pictures here on the forum rather than links to Facebook? Some of us do not belong to Facebook, and cannot view the pics. Thanks.
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Is this black and white pup still available?
Thanks,
Janet -
This is an old post but I am confused about something. According to these posts the mother was clear and the father turned out to be a carrier thought to be clear originally. So how did he sire an affected puppy. I thought if a clear and a carrier were bred you would not get affected. only if two carriers were bred you would get affected. Or of course if an affected was bred you could get affected. I am just curious. I am not breeding
or anything just trying to understand this Fanconi. My own girl is a carrier but spayed, and my understanding is she should never come down with Fanconi. Im just not sure how a clear and carrier could have an affected thats all. -
This is an old post but I am confused about something. According to these posts the mother was clear and the father turned out to be a carrier thought to be clear originally. So how did he sire an affected puppy. I thought if a clear and a carrier were bred you would not get affected. only if two carriers were bred you would get affected. Or of course if an affected was bred you could get affected. I am just curious. I am not breeding
or anything just trying to understand this Fanconi. My own girl is a carrier but spayed, and my understanding is she should never come down with Fanconi. Im just not sure how a clear and carrier could have an affected thats all.Not the same litters, the one mentioned with the affected was from a different litter than Annandael's litter. The litter with the one affected turned out to be a carrier x carrier breeding. Keep in mind that the linkage test for Fanconi was just that "linkage", not a direct DNA test. So retested when we got the direct DNA test was/is needed. The bitch was a carrier, the male "retested with the direct test" turned out to be a carrier
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This is an old post but I am confused about something. According to these posts the mother was clear and the father turned out to be a carrier thought to be clear originally. So how did he sire an affected puppy. I thought if a clear and a carrier were bred you would not get affected. only if two carriers were bred you would get affected. Or of course if an affected was bred you could get affected. I am just curious. I am not breeding
or anything just trying to understand this Fanconi. My own girl is a carrier but spayed, and my understanding is she should never come down with Fanconi. Im just not sure how a clear and carrier could have an affected thats all.Her post is confusing, The bitch was not CLEAR, she was out of a clear/carrier breeding, so she had to have been a carrier. But also, this was the linkage test. Hopefully all involved have gotten the DNA test that came available the end of last year.
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The bitch was not CLEAR, she was out of a clear/carrier breeding, so she had to have been a carrier.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but clear to carrier should yield 50/50 clears and carriers (statistically speaking). Carrier to carrier would give one clear, two carrier, one affected, if I am doing the math right. And clear to affected would yield all carrier. (obviously affected to affected = all puppies affected, carrier to affected would give you half carrier and half affected)
Maybe I read the implication wrong. Now that I am looking at it again, I don't think Debra meant she had to be a carrier, just that obviously she was if she had an affected puppy. Really good that the direct test is now available!
