Called to talk to the owner of a vet practice and he wasn't in so they took a MSG and told me he'd call on Monday. Turns out he stopped in to check on the practice and called me Sunday but I didn't pick up. Totally blanked out today with the weather and at 6 I got a call, it was Dr. Seigel, we ended up talking for half an hour and he seems to be very open to my philosophies, working with me and most of all is excited to learn about the breed. It's nice to hear a vet say they learn so much from their patients…he agreed to take us on and I will see him in a month for Oakleys two year checkup. Im also having a full blood panel drawn as a baseline...should i have a full t4 thyroid panel done also? lastly, come january he will be getting his hips done for OFA since he will be two this November. The Dr. even remembered taking care of my first dog Petey for the last few yrs of his life...makes me happy!
Yearly Vaccines?
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Thanks, Pat.
Your comment also solved the question I had as to why our puppy got only a 1-year rabies vaccine rather than a 3-year.
Like I said, it's been 15+ years since we've had a puppy…I have a hard enough time remembering what happened yesterday, let alone so long ago!
There is no difference in the vaccine's used at puppyhood, 1yr, and then given every three years… all the same vaccine.
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All 8 of my animals are due their boosters over the next 2 months. I have asked in the past if the yearly boosters are really necessary especially for my elderly dogs who have been boosted every year of their lives. I get told that policy is to boost every year - 16 months max. The problem I have is the boarding kennels will not accept the dogs without proof of boosters and won't accept titre tests either. I would rather not boost at all but don't have much choice.
That is a problem when you board, I agree….. but no different in the US when it comes to boarding unless at your Vet's who follow the 3yr protocol
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Also i believe it can invalidate your pet insurance if your animal isn't up to date with boosters.
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Shelley - there are many problems with insurance companies and Boarding kennels in this country if you don't have yearly boosters.
However - mine are vaccinated at puppyhood and then are on a homeopathic regime for the rest of their lives.
I do know that so many vets here insist on yearly boosters but it really doesn't make any sense. Even many of the vaccine manufacturers do not reccommend yearly boosters.
My vet says that it isn't necessary to give annual boosters - he always asks 'Did your children have a yearly booster?'
I haven't got the lnk at present but will send you information on vaccines when I have a break.
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Here's the link, Shelley.
http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/commonQuestions.html
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All 8 of my animals are due their boosters over the next 2 months. I have asked in the past if the yearly boosters are really necessary especially for my elderly dogs who have been boosted every year of their lives. I get told that policy is to boost every year - 16 months max. The problem I have is the boarding kennels will not accept the dogs without proof of boosters and won't accept titre tests either. I would rather not boost at all but don't have much choice.
This is exactly the position we have here in Aus as well… As all our dogs are going into boarding kennels, (well most of them), Im finding that I have to vacc my guys, so I can have them board... Really annoying, totally unnecessary, VERY expebsive, and I dont want to have to do my 12 1/2 year old ACD at all. I have no choice though... I just wish that the Boarding Kennel Authority, (I have no idea what they are called), would get with the times and allow the B.K. to accept either the 3 year regime, or at the very least accept titre results...
The other thing i dont get, is why Im putting other boarding dogs 'at risk', by my dogs not vaccinated... HUH......... I dont understand that aspect at all. My dogs could be at risk, not the other vaccinated dogs there
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There is no difference in the vaccine's used at puppyhood, 1yr, and then given every three years… all the same vaccine.
That is a problem when you board, I agree….. but no different in the US when it comes to boarding unless at your Vet's who follow the 3yr protocol
Also i believe it can invalidate your pet insurance if your animal isn't up to date with boosters.
In reality, titers are accepted by many. Most vets try to hold you hostage, ask them to talk to their insurance or see it. Or find a new vet/boarding facility.
It is like Kennel cough.. if they made you get it before you came in to board, sure. But vet boarding places drive me nuts when they have you get them when you drop off, it is a scam. Takes 3 days or more to take effect, by which time they would have gotten it if there and if have it, will give it to others.
YOU not your vet, determines what shots, other than legally required rabies, your dog gets. First call your state Vet board for state laws, then start calling vets and kennels to find one that accepts titers. Considering ALL the major veterinary teaching hospitals agree yearly IS NOT NECESSARY, I wouldn't use a vet who insisted on it because they don't have either my dog's best interest at heart, or they are uneducated.
Colorado State University's
Small Animal Vaccination Protocol
Veterinary Teaching HospitalIn the past there have been many different vaccination recommendations for dogs and cats from veterinarians across the United States based on the best available information. In light of new information, the Colorado State University Veterinary Teaching Hospital is offering its clients the following vaccination program. This program is designed as the routine immunization program for Colorado State University's clients' dogs and cats living in Larimer County, Colorado, USA in conjunction with a complete physical examination and health evaluation. This program is modified for any patient with specific risk factors.
Not all available small animal vaccines may be suitable for our program. Infectious disease risk may vary and our routine vaccination program may not be suitable for all localities. Anyone using our routine vaccination program is encouraged to follow the guidelines that are its basis and use the program at their own risk.
For pet owners, your local veterinarian is your best resource to develop a vaccination program tailored for your pet. The health status and infectious disease risks of your pet should be considered in the selection of a vaccination program.
Our adoption of this routine vaccination program is based on the lack of scientific evidence **to support the current practice of annual vaccination and increasing documentation showing that overvaccinating has been associated with harmful side effects. Of particular note in this regard has been the association of autoimmune hemolytic anemia with vaccination in dogs and vaccine-associated sarcomas in cats – both of which are often fatal. With boosters (except for rabies vaccine), the annual revaccination recommendation on the vaccine label is just that -- a recommendation without the backing of long term duration of immunity studies, and is not a legal requirement. Rabies vaccine is the only commonly used vaccine that requires that duration of immunity studies be carried out before licensure in the United States. Even with rabies vaccines, the label may be misleading in that a three year duration of immunity product may also be labeled and sold as a one year duration of immunity product.
Based on the concern that annual vaccination of small animals for many, but not all, infectious agents is probably no longer scientifcally justified, and our desire to avoid vaccine-associated adverse events, we are recommending the described routine immunization program to our small animal clients.
**
This Program recommends the standard three shot series for puppies (parvovirus, adenovirus 2, parainfluenza, distemper) and kittens (panleukopenia, rhinotracheitis, calicivirus) to include rabies after 8 weeks of age for cats (Canary Pox Rabies only) and 16 weeks of age for dogs. Following the initial puppy and kitten immunization series, cats and dogs will be boostered one year later and then every three years thereafter for all the above diseases except for rabies in cats which receive the new safer canary pox rabies vaccine that requires annual boosters. Similar small animal vaccination programs have been recently adopted by other university teaching hospitals and the American Association of Feline Practitioners.Other available small animal vaccines, which may need more frequent administration, i.e., intranasal parainfluenza, Bordetella, feline leukemia, Lyme, etc., may be recommended for CSU client animals on an "at risk" basis but are not a part of the routine Colorado State University protocol for small animals. Recent studies clearly indicate that not all vaccines perform equally and some vaccine products may not be suitable for such a program.
http://www.colovma.com/associations/2956/files/Small%20Animal%20Vaccine%20Guidelines%20final.pdf
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Also another thing that Vet's try and push on people is with Meds… In California they are required by law that if you ask for the scrip for prescribed meds they must give it to you and they can not charge you..... My Vets happily comply... thankfully... the only thing that you need to watch for if you are going to order meds yourself is the shelf life.
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Also another thing that Vet's try and push on people is with Meds… In California they are required by law that if you ask for the scrip for prescribed meds they must give it to you and they can not charge you..... My Vets happily comply... thankfully... the only thing that you need to watch for if you are going to order meds yourself is the shelf life.
When our first Basenji was very ill, his medication cost a fortune, fortunately we discovered that we could ask for prescriptions and order online for a fraction of the price.
However just before the end of his life the government gave vets permission to charge for prescriptions and charge they did, ?8.00 per item and he needed quite a few drugs. In the end it wasn't any cheaper. -
I wonder how many studies have been done re annual vacs and how reliable they are?
In the report provided by Debra it doesn't quite make clear how the research was conducted. -
Here's the link, Shelley.
http://www.canine-health-concern.org.uk/commonQuestions.html
Thanks Helena
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Shelly, they did titers on most. Really it was pretty much a no brainer. Humans get vaccines as children and most last a life time. To think that most dog and animal ones wouldn't was insane. Some of course don't… kennel cough (like our flu) and others need more often.
The other thing that makes me spew is vaccines. About 10 yrs ago they tested 5 drug companies for how effective their parvo was. It ranged from about 12 percent to over 90 percent (progard). VETS KNEW, yet were still ordering the cheap stuff. If anyone is interested I'll dig out the report. Of course, 10 yrs and much has changed but it was a disgrace. I showed it to my vets who immediately changed vaccines.
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However - mine are vaccinated at puppyhood and then are on a homeopathic regime for the rest of their lives.
Secondly, you could use the homoeopathic alternative instead. This has been used by many breeders and show people for years. Reports indicate that homoeopathically protected dogs are far healthier than vaccinated dogs. There are several scientific studies showing that the homoeopathic alternative works. [From the link you gave, Patty.]
What are the homeopathic regimes? Is there a book or website that gives this information? I have no idea what's being talked about here.
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It is because most of the research used titers only that they are not able to be labeled as 3 year or more vaccines. In order to change the labeling the vaccines must be challenge tested to prove efficacy since there is controversy about the effectiveness of titers to predict immunity. Most vets are recommending a 3 year protocol based on the titer results alone. Intervet/Schering Plough did do 3 year challenge testing on their Continuum line of vaccines and was able to obtain 3 year labeling based on those tests.
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And yet, titers testing has proven to be reliable in all human studies, apes, etc. The only reason to refuse it with dogs is, pardon my cynicism, because the drug companies and vets want more money and pretend they think it is different in dogs.
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It is not the drug companies that mandate what needs to be done for labeling. The whole reason for the Rabies Challenge Fund is that in order to increase the labeling of rabies vaccines to greater than 3 years requires Challenge Testing to be done to prove efficacy. Titers are not good enough if a company wants to label their vaccine for longer duration.
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Okay guess I wasn't clear. The drug companies and vets lobby to keep labeling requirements as they are. The truth is that most drugs by company A and B have the same lasting effect… and forcing testing by exposure does 2 things... risks dogs who are often then destroyed, ups the cost many folds, and in this case proves what has already been proven with human and ape and rat and other testing... which is that titers do indeed show immunity levels.
I do have to say that at least with rabies, the deaths of dogs MIGHT almost be justified. But most people don't realize that new products come about with LITERALLY thousands of deaths of animals. Frontline I am pretty sure killed well over 5,000 during the testing phase because they test, then the kill, then they do necropsy studies.
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I emailed the RCVS to get their protocol, this is the reply i recievedDear Ms Cuff
Thank you for your e-mail enquiry.
The RCVS, as a regulatory body, is unable to offer independent clinical advice. We deal primarily with allegations of professional misconduct and we are required by statute to investigate complaints against registered members which may give rise to such an allegation.
Any questions about how often vaccinations should be administered should be raised with your veterinary surgeon. We are aware that there are some different views in the US, but this is not something the RCVS has commented on.
I am sorry I am unable to provide any further advice on this issue.
Yours sincerely,
Laura McClintock
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Very non-committal, but not a lot of help!
