I love the pictures - what a contrast!!
New BABY B girl!
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If the posts were made at the same time a spammer hit, sometimes people just don't see them so you can always go in and "bump" your post by replying to it. Sometimes people don't look because the title doesn't grab their attention, you can go in a make a new post with a different title.
I never saw any posts from you asking for any information about finding a responsible breeder. Could be you posted in December which was just an awful month for me.
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If the posts were made at the same time a spammer hit, sometimes people just don't see them so you can always go in and "bump" your post by replying to it. Sometimes people don't look because the title doesn't grab their attention, you can go in a make a new post with a different title.
I never saw any posts from you asking for any information about finding a responsible breeder. Could be you posted in December which was just an awful month for me.
Well, Lvoss, thank you for posting the breeder page info. My only concern is that now it might be too late to get a puppy this season, as they are probably all spoken for. As I said, for various personal reasons, I do not wish to wait another year. Any suggestions?
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When you talk about you doing the testing rather than requiring that of the breeder then to me that is "not getting it". Responsible breeders test before they bring puppies into the world. Buyers who want pets should demand that any puppy they choose is from health tested parents and not be saddle with that responsibility themselves though any testing they do will help a responsible breeder better their breeding program. Once you take that puppy home, can you honestly say you would return it if it tested Affected? What happens if it is one of the late onset diseases instead of Fanconi where we have a test and you can find out relatively quickly?
These are not just questions for you but anyone who reads this thread and is in a similar position where the breeder tells them they will have to do the testing themselves.
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Well, Lvoss, thank you for posting the breeder page info. My only concern is that now it might be too late to get a puppy this season, as they are probably all spoken for. As I said, for various personal reasons, I do not wish to wait another year. Any suggestions?
My suggestion is to start contacting breeders and be open to searching neighboring states. It is true that it is late in the season to start looking but that doesn't mean there won't be an available puppy it just means that you are going to have to work harder to find one. As you start making calls you will probably find that if a breeder doesn't have a puppy available they may know someone else that does but it will require spending some time doing the leg work.
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lvoss is exactly right - the breeder you choose should be doing all the testing prior to breeding that you did for your girl Lana when you were planning to breed her. All the prospective pet owners who would have purchased a puppy from you would have had a pup that came from fully health tested parents. I guess for me I wonder why if you were willing to do it the right way for your prospective puppy buyers, why would you not want the same thing of any breeder you yourself purchase a puppy from?
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:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
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Ok, fine, maybe I am convinced… Here's the question then: if I end up not getting this puppy because some of you are so adamant about it, does anyone know of any good breeder in California that still has puppies available? (For personal reasons, this decision was made a long time ago, and we do not want to wait for another year to get another dog)
Pat, do you have any puppies this season? Red girl, to be exact?
I do not have any puppies, as the litter I was going to breed didn't work out and you know, I had people on my waiting list that I had to contact and try and find another responsible breeder for them to contact or of course they had the choice of waiting for the next breeding. In fact, I have someone on my reservation list that is now been on my list for two years and hopefully the litter that I co-bred this fall will have their perfect puppy in it. Sometimes what we want and what we can get is not always the same… Just because for what ever reason you want a puppy this year, life sometimes deals you a different hand. I just can't image going to a irresponsible breeder that doesn't health test and is a pure for profit breeder, because you are too late for a puppy from a responsible breeder.
And I am sure that this person told you all about how healthly her lines are... here is a fact about Fanconi. There is a breeder on the East Coast (and this is just one of many of the same stories) - that for years and years claimed that her lines were free of Fanconi because she never had an Affected dog. And that was the case, she didn't have or produce an Affected dog. Along comes the DNA linkage test and as a responsible breeder she starts testing her dogs. Low and behold, all of them start coming up as Carriers. Had she NOT tested and kept breeding, now breeding Carrier to Carrier, Fanconi Affected would have been coming up all over the place. So, it is not just good enough to say, "hey look at all my old dogs I have here, certainly I have no problems with Fanconi"... just does not cut it any longer.
Also the other person that was using the Cambria name was/is connected to Mountain Springs but their kennel was on the East Coast.
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The responsible breeder vs. BYB or Puppymill is a war that has been going on for a long time.
Health testing and lifetime responsibility for the puppies are the lines in the sand. Responsible breeders have been trying to figure out how to stop the puppymills and BYB's for a long time. Most of the dogs that end up in rescue are from these BYB's and puppymills. They also breed without regard to improving the breed, so they perpetuate problems like fanconi, chd, etc.
Every time someone buys a puppy from a BYB or puppymill, it helps them continue.To see someone who could be such a good home, who has experience with testing, and who has ties to the basenji community go to a BYB is very scary.
It means that even those with education can be drawn in by the BYB's and the responsible breeders are losing.
People get very passionate about this war.Cambria is the name of the kennel of Bob Mankey and Jack Schaefer. They did a lot for the breed. Literally, they wrote the book. Bob Mankey died, and there is a lot of reverence attached to the name Cambria. To have that diluted by other poaching the name is something else people get very passionate about.
Why don't you start your puppy search by calling Ryder's breeder? The basenji community is pretty tight knit. You may have to make several calls, but that seems like a good place to start.
I hope you can see that, even though people are getting emotional, it is not a direct attack on you, and people are only trying to educate you and find out why you chose the way you did. If you can answer some questions about why you chose this pup, it can help the entire fancy figure out how to draw people to responsible breeders and away from BYB's.
-Nicole
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If the posts were made at the same time a spammer hit, sometimes people just don't see them so you can always go in and "bump" your post by replying to it. Sometimes people don't look because the title doesn't grab their attention, you can go in a make a new post with a different title.
I never saw any posts from you asking for any information about finding a responsible breeder. Could be you posted in December which was just an awful month for me.
And I don't remember any posts either?? And as you can see, we are NOT shy about responding…...
Many of us have websites that you can then find our email addresses and just contact us privately too.
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I know that Ryder's Breeder (Bushbabies Basenjis) didn't have a litter this year either, her bitch that she bred didn't take.
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What about Yodeldogs, she has puppies, wrong side of the country but it might be worth a trip out there…
Truth be told, I have a b from a back yard breeder..his parents were tested for fanconi, so I had that to go on, but that was it, since I got Otis, his breeder after me having a cow about his eyes having ppm, has tested his dogs eyes as well..so..I got the heat as well, many of us has, but it is for the sake of the breed and the sake of the animal..it is not personal, nobody on this forum wants to see or hear of dogs that are coming down with fanconi, not today, since testing is available.
Tanza and I did not see eye to eye...until one day when I finally got it..now I will listen and learn..Otis is a great dog, fanconi free and clear...but next time I will do more research and learn more before I get a dog from anybody...
She is adorable, I wish you best of luck.. -
Good point Basenjimamma… and especially if anyone is thinking about breeding in the future, eye exams at 8/9 wks are important, expecially if Coloboma's are found... dogs with this, while is might not effect they sight long term, should not be bred... and this is something that can be determined at that age. And that breeder has found eye problems in their lines
And yes, we had our differences.. but I would respond to anyone the same... these are stated facts, not just opinions... tests to not lie...
And as already pointed out, BYB should not be encouraged or supported, but responsible breeders should be.... BYB sell to anyone who comes up with the money, pure and simple..
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This is how I see it….
wait for a nice, health, well-bred pup from a responsible breeder
or
play Russian Roulette and take the puppy.Since you have NOT lived with Fanconi...
please take the time to read these articles so you have a little bit more understanding of the disease, and living with it. I have lived with it more than once... I saw Fanconi in the 70s and 80s.... and then again in the 90s and 2000s.... it is NOT pretty.
Given the information you have received here, knowing the importance of fanconi testing, you would be better off going to Vegas playing those odds.http://www.khanisbasenjis.com/LifewithaFanconiDog.pdf
http://www.khanisbasenjis.com/WhenFanconiSyndromeHitsHome.pdf
http://www.khanisbasenjis.com/BreedingAroundFanconiSyndrome.pdfI don't come on here nearly as often as the other breeders, but I also did not see a request for information on puppies.
I will have a red girl or boy available next month [yeah! I get to make my first trip to Hawaii!!], but until I grade them in person, I have no idea which one will be available, and if it will be to a show home only or possibly a companion home.
You can check my website for more information if you are interested. -
Ok, I am convinced… I guess I was a little too engulfed in my family situation to do all the proper research on the breeder. I actually agree 100% on the necessity of keeping the breed healthy as well as keeping the individual dogs healthy. I guess I made a mistake of being ready to deal with the consequences rather than preventing them from happening all together. I am determined to keep looking for a puppy though (this time from a responsible breeder)... Red baby girl is still coming home, it's just a question of where she is coming from.
By the way, thanks to all for valuable input. I know that you guys wish for the best for the breed and the people, it's just sometimes the tone comes across as disapproving and harsh instead of advising and supporting.
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Remember, this is ADVICE.
When people talk of Fanconi… LISTEN.Sure, some dogs don't experience it to the degree that others do...
but it can not be known in advance to what degree the dog will be sick with the disease.I could write more articles about Fanconi... and maybe that would make people understand just HOW important it is to know the fanconi test of the dogs one is breeding.
WHY on earth deal with it and have a sick dog if you don't have to in this day and age?
BTW.... look at her puppy prices... and note how close they are, if not more, than lots of reputable breeders. What testing does she do that makes her a NOT-FOR-PROFIT breeder? Oh, none.
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I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in Norway there is a Basenji Club, and breeder can register and are then listed on the website as a breeder. However the club has guidelines/rules the breeders must follow, which naturally is having health testing done.
So I felt very safe getting Gizmo from one of the listed breeders, even though I heard there was someone local who was having a litter I didn't want one from that person because he/she was not registered.
And I am happy I did. I have heard some stories from people at the dog park about some Basenjis from local breeders, and the dogs seem to be pretty wild/angry. Even when I took Gizmo to the vet, the vet asked me about his temper because the Basenjis they knew of where pretty nasty towards people.
Now I don't know if that has something to do with their line of breed, but Gizmo at least is a result of 2 "serious" breeders, and the result is one soft guy that melts everyone's hearts. -
NerdyDogOwner: That is not the way it is in the US. Anyone can breed and sell dogs, parent dog clubs have "guidelines" regarding responsible breeding, but people are not forced to follow them. Therefore, Back yard breeders and PuppyMills exist and while these people claim that they are "approved", that approval has nothing to do with testing before breeding, it is totally based on kennel conditions (ie: puppymillers who produce #'s of breeds in very large quantities). And since these people are typically not a member of a local Basenji club or the parent club, they are not even exposed to peer pressure.
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Remember, this is ADVICE.
When people talk of Fanconi… LISTEN.Sure, some dogs don't experience it to the degree that others do...
but it can not be known in advance to what degree the dog will be sick with the disease.I could write more articles about Fanconi... and maybe that would make people understand just HOW important it is to know the fanconi test of the dogs one is breeding.
WHY on earth deal with it and have a sick dog if you don't have to in this day and age?
BTW.... look at her puppy prices... and note how close they are, if not more, than lots of reputable breeders. What testing does she do that makes her a NOT-FOR-PROFIT breeder? Oh, none.
Good point about the price Kathy.
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I sent you a private message with the web sites and people to contact along with some information about this particular breeder. It sounds as though you have decided not to take Red Arrow, which I think is probably a wise decision, although I feel bad that she may not wind up in a Basenji experienced home and could eventually find her way to Karen Jones at Medfly Rescue as so many of Sandy's dogs have…
Terry -
It is sad, but if these BYB's end up with a few litters of pups they can't sell, they will be much less likely to continue. So, no matter how bad you feel for the pup, you cannot buy from one of them.
That's the only way these dogs will stop showing up at Medifly.I like the way it is put here: http://blacksheepcardigans.com/ruff/?p=3452
-Nicole
