Pretty Girl
Thank you thunderbird8588
New BABY B girl!
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The responsible breeder vs. BYB or Puppymill is a war that has been going on for a long time.
Health testing and lifetime responsibility for the puppies are the lines in the sand. Responsible breeders have been trying to figure out how to stop the puppymills and BYB's for a long time. Most of the dogs that end up in rescue are from these BYB's and puppymills. They also breed without regard to improving the breed, so they perpetuate problems like fanconi, chd, etc.
Every time someone buys a puppy from a BYB or puppymill, it helps them continue.To see someone who could be such a good home, who has experience with testing, and who has ties to the basenji community go to a BYB is very scary.
It means that even those with education can be drawn in by the BYB's and the responsible breeders are losing.
People get very passionate about this war.Cambria is the name of the kennel of Bob Mankey and Jack Schaefer. They did a lot for the breed. Literally, they wrote the book. Bob Mankey died, and there is a lot of reverence attached to the name Cambria. To have that diluted by other poaching the name is something else people get very passionate about.
Why don't you start your puppy search by calling Ryder's breeder? The basenji community is pretty tight knit. You may have to make several calls, but that seems like a good place to start.
I hope you can see that, even though people are getting emotional, it is not a direct attack on you, and people are only trying to educate you and find out why you chose the way you did. If you can answer some questions about why you chose this pup, it can help the entire fancy figure out how to draw people to responsible breeders and away from BYB's.
-Nicole
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If the posts were made at the same time a spammer hit, sometimes people just don't see them so you can always go in and "bump" your post by replying to it. Sometimes people don't look because the title doesn't grab their attention, you can go in a make a new post with a different title.
I never saw any posts from you asking for any information about finding a responsible breeder. Could be you posted in December which was just an awful month for me.
And I don't remember any posts either?? And as you can see, we are NOT shy about responding…...
Many of us have websites that you can then find our email addresses and just contact us privately too.
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I know that Ryder's Breeder (Bushbabies Basenjis) didn't have a litter this year either, her bitch that she bred didn't take.
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What about Yodeldogs, she has puppies, wrong side of the country but it might be worth a trip out there…
Truth be told, I have a b from a back yard breeder..his parents were tested for fanconi, so I had that to go on, but that was it, since I got Otis, his breeder after me having a cow about his eyes having ppm, has tested his dogs eyes as well..so..I got the heat as well, many of us has, but it is for the sake of the breed and the sake of the animal..it is not personal, nobody on this forum wants to see or hear of dogs that are coming down with fanconi, not today, since testing is available.
Tanza and I did not see eye to eye...until one day when I finally got it..now I will listen and learn..Otis is a great dog, fanconi free and clear...but next time I will do more research and learn more before I get a dog from anybody...
She is adorable, I wish you best of luck.. -
Good point Basenjimamma… and especially if anyone is thinking about breeding in the future, eye exams at 8/9 wks are important, expecially if Coloboma's are found... dogs with this, while is might not effect they sight long term, should not be bred... and this is something that can be determined at that age. And that breeder has found eye problems in their lines
And yes, we had our differences.. but I would respond to anyone the same... these are stated facts, not just opinions... tests to not lie...
And as already pointed out, BYB should not be encouraged or supported, but responsible breeders should be.... BYB sell to anyone who comes up with the money, pure and simple..
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This is how I see it….
wait for a nice, health, well-bred pup from a responsible breeder
or
play Russian Roulette and take the puppy.Since you have NOT lived with Fanconi...
please take the time to read these articles so you have a little bit more understanding of the disease, and living with it. I have lived with it more than once... I saw Fanconi in the 70s and 80s.... and then again in the 90s and 2000s.... it is NOT pretty.
Given the information you have received here, knowing the importance of fanconi testing, you would be better off going to Vegas playing those odds.http://www.khanisbasenjis.com/LifewithaFanconiDog.pdf
http://www.khanisbasenjis.com/WhenFanconiSyndromeHitsHome.pdf
http://www.khanisbasenjis.com/BreedingAroundFanconiSyndrome.pdfI don't come on here nearly as often as the other breeders, but I also did not see a request for information on puppies.
I will have a red girl or boy available next month [yeah! I get to make my first trip to Hawaii!!], but until I grade them in person, I have no idea which one will be available, and if it will be to a show home only or possibly a companion home.
You can check my website for more information if you are interested. -
Ok, I am convinced… I guess I was a little too engulfed in my family situation to do all the proper research on the breeder. I actually agree 100% on the necessity of keeping the breed healthy as well as keeping the individual dogs healthy. I guess I made a mistake of being ready to deal with the consequences rather than preventing them from happening all together. I am determined to keep looking for a puppy though (this time from a responsible breeder)... Red baby girl is still coming home, it's just a question of where she is coming from.
By the way, thanks to all for valuable input. I know that you guys wish for the best for the breed and the people, it's just sometimes the tone comes across as disapproving and harsh instead of advising and supporting.
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Remember, this is ADVICE.
When people talk of Fanconi… LISTEN.Sure, some dogs don't experience it to the degree that others do...
but it can not be known in advance to what degree the dog will be sick with the disease.I could write more articles about Fanconi... and maybe that would make people understand just HOW important it is to know the fanconi test of the dogs one is breeding.
WHY on earth deal with it and have a sick dog if you don't have to in this day and age?
BTW.... look at her puppy prices... and note how close they are, if not more, than lots of reputable breeders. What testing does she do that makes her a NOT-FOR-PROFIT breeder? Oh, none.
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I don't know what it's like in the US, but here in Norway there is a Basenji Club, and breeder can register and are then listed on the website as a breeder. However the club has guidelines/rules the breeders must follow, which naturally is having health testing done.
So I felt very safe getting Gizmo from one of the listed breeders, even though I heard there was someone local who was having a litter I didn't want one from that person because he/she was not registered.
And I am happy I did. I have heard some stories from people at the dog park about some Basenjis from local breeders, and the dogs seem to be pretty wild/angry. Even when I took Gizmo to the vet, the vet asked me about his temper because the Basenjis they knew of where pretty nasty towards people.
Now I don't know if that has something to do with their line of breed, but Gizmo at least is a result of 2 "serious" breeders, and the result is one soft guy that melts everyone's hearts. -
NerdyDogOwner: That is not the way it is in the US. Anyone can breed and sell dogs, parent dog clubs have "guidelines" regarding responsible breeding, but people are not forced to follow them. Therefore, Back yard breeders and PuppyMills exist and while these people claim that they are "approved", that approval has nothing to do with testing before breeding, it is totally based on kennel conditions (ie: puppymillers who produce #'s of breeds in very large quantities). And since these people are typically not a member of a local Basenji club or the parent club, they are not even exposed to peer pressure.
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Remember, this is ADVICE.
When people talk of Fanconi… LISTEN.Sure, some dogs don't experience it to the degree that others do...
but it can not be known in advance to what degree the dog will be sick with the disease.I could write more articles about Fanconi... and maybe that would make people understand just HOW important it is to know the fanconi test of the dogs one is breeding.
WHY on earth deal with it and have a sick dog if you don't have to in this day and age?
BTW.... look at her puppy prices... and note how close they are, if not more, than lots of reputable breeders. What testing does she do that makes her a NOT-FOR-PROFIT breeder? Oh, none.
Good point about the price Kathy.
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I sent you a private message with the web sites and people to contact along with some information about this particular breeder. It sounds as though you have decided not to take Red Arrow, which I think is probably a wise decision, although I feel bad that she may not wind up in a Basenji experienced home and could eventually find her way to Karen Jones at Medfly Rescue as so many of Sandy's dogs have…
Terry -
It is sad, but if these BYB's end up with a few litters of pups they can't sell, they will be much less likely to continue. So, no matter how bad you feel for the pup, you cannot buy from one of them.
That's the only way these dogs will stop showing up at Medifly.I like the way it is put here: http://blacksheepcardigans.com/ruff/?p=3452
-Nicole
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I don't come on here nearly as often as the other breeders, but I also did not see a request for information on puppies.
I will have a red girl or boy available next month [yeah! I get to make my first trip to Hawaii!!], but until I grade them in person, I have no idea which one will be available, and if it will be to a show home only or possibly a companion home.
You can check my website for more information if you are interested.This is where I part company with some other responsible breeders. To me the home is the most important thing, not if it is a show home. If the pup was that good and if needed to be shown, then I would keep it myself…. Of course I don't have many show homes... nor do I really care. If someone is interested in showing, great... if not, great too, because the "forever" home is the most important thing. There are times that I have placed a puppy in a pet home that in the end turned out to be a show home too, but not very often... and also if I did, only to have the people change their minds that it was too much of a hassle to show, so be it... it is then their pet.
But that is a breeders choice. However, I think the attitude of "must" be a show home or even "make available for shows" is really a turn off to many people looking for just a great family companion.
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that breeders should show (or compete in performance) their dogs as it showcases their breeding, what they hope to bring back to the breed. I love showing mine, but that is my choice and what I think a responsible breeder is....
This is not a knock to responsible breeders that do not think the same way, this is just my opinion...
And Kathy, you will love Hawaii!!!
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This is how I see it….
I will have a red girl or boy available next month [yeah! I get to make my first trip to Hawaii!!], but until I grade them in person, I have no idea which one will be available, and if it will be to a show home only or possibly a companion home.
You can check my website for more information if you are interested.HOW EXCITING!! Im Located on Oahu here in Hawaii! I know of one Breeder around here, but I think that there is only one, right? Anyways, They have Beautiful B's Maybe while you are here (if youre going to be on Oahu) we can get the Pups together. Ive seen quite a few B's here actually! All Red and Whites and only Adults, but REGARDLESS, Basenjis in Hawaii! Awesome! Id love to make some B Friends out here… but Im still working on that
You will LOOOOOOOVE Hawaii! Maybe you wont want to go home LOL. Its Beautiful, Enjoy and Congrats 
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It Looks like Teazer is having Three Litters… Uh Oh... Makes me want a puppy... okay, Coming to my Senses now, LOL Anyway, here's their website
Just in case anyone was interested in information. -
I sent you a private message with the web sites and people to contact along with some information about this particular breeder. It sounds as though you have decided not to take Red Arrow, which I think is probably a wise decision, although I feel bad that she may not wind up in a Basenji experienced home and could eventually find her way to Karen Jones at Medfly Rescue as so many of Sandy's dogs have…
TerryYes I have decided not to take her… Although Red Arrow is the name that I came up with, and I WILL use it for something in the future. Still deciding on getting a puppy from another breeder though...
Thanks for the website!
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This is where I part company with some other responsible breeders. To me the home is the most important thing, not if it is a show home. If the pup was that good and if needed to be shown, then I would keep it myself…. Of course I don't have many show homes... nor do I really care. If someone is interested in showing, great... if not, great too, because the "forever" home is the most important thing. There are times that I have placed a puppy in a pet home that in the end turned out to be a show home too, but not very often... and also if I did, only to have the people change their minds that it was too much of a hassle to show, so be it... it is then their pet.
But that is a breeders choice. However, I think the attitude of "must" be a show home or even "make available for shows" is really a turn off to many people looking for just a great family companion.
Don't get me wrong, I firmly believe that breeders should show (or compete in performance) their dogs as it showcases their breeding, what they hope to bring back to the breed. I love showing mine, but that is my choice and what I think a responsible breeder is....
This is not a knock to responsible breeders that do not think the same way, this is just my opinion...
And Kathy, you will love Hawaii!!!
That is a misconception on your part Pat.
I put the majority of my puppies in companion homes.
I sent Honey BACK to Hawaii to have a litter so John would keep something out of her. It is too much to deal with to prepare to send them there.. and he wouldn't get the pup until it is 9 months old.
This way, he gets to keep his choice.I am bringing home my puppies from the Honey and Smooches litters. The reason we bred the girls was to have something to show.. for both of us. That means that I may put one of mine in a companion home… but I usually choose companion homes near me, that way I can show them as well.
When I have folks on my side of town that want one of my dogs, it is rare for them to pass up one of my pups just because I want to show it. Since I don't show my Bs as puppies much, they don't have the dog leaving very often, and they get additional FREE training on their puppy, at NO expense to them.
I absolutely LOVE the Honey and Smooches pups I already have... so will love these too I am sure! I am also putting a lot of thought into bringing Ms. Smooches back too... after all, I alredy found her a perfect companion home with an older Khani's basenji!
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That is a misconception on your part Pat.
I put the majority of my puppies in companion homes.Not a misconception, Kathy…. as I said, "some responsible breeders" (and we have all seen the ads for "show homes only" or "home that will make available for show". I was not trying to Single you out.. I was making a comment when breeders put in things about show homes.. it is a general turn off to many people looking just for a family companion. And I agree, many times it works out well for the puppy owner for things like training and that they are not footing the show bill. And it is all in the presentation to that puppy buyer if it is something that will work for all.
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Ok… here's what is going to make you guys happy... Upon talking to some knowledgeable people (thanks to all), and doing some more research on the breeder, we have decided to not get that puppy. Although I am disappointed, I am glad that I did not make what could potentially turn out to be a really big mistake. I am going to call a couple of people though, not giving up yet. (Kathy, if you end up having a girl available, keep me posted, please!)
If we end up not getting anything this year, we are going to try breeding Lana again and keeping one of the babies for sure.
