Breeder contracts and control

[tanza]

Like I said it was a while ago…. and I know that they try and find the breeders, however these were a couple of cases that the breeder was willing to take their dogs back, owners had a fit because it would be in a kennel situation.....

But as they say, takes all kinds.... and I think BRAT does a good job for both owners that need to place their pups and breeders who want their dogs back.

[YodelDogs]

@Patty:

And Robyn, Bunny/Sophia was happily reunited with her owners.

Her breeder was her owner prior to being fostered for BRAT. Did she go back to the breeder?

[curlytails]

Debra, I like your system for managing the owner-breeder contract. It sounds like a lot of work! But raising and selling puppies isn't supposed to be easy. And of course, if one doesn't "overproduce," it's possible to keep up.

Thanks everyone for clarifying BRAT's role. I'm pretty sure that somewhere on their site, they insisted that decisions are made on a "financially-blind" basis, but they DO take into account the whole picture, including home visits. We had an application on file with BRAT before we adopted Bowpi off Craigslist. In our situation for example, I knew it was a "strike" against me that I'm a grad student making grad student wages. But not because I didn't make enough money on paper (though we had a lot going for us as a forever home that I made sure to outline in my application). At the end of the day, when there are multiple families putting in applications for one dog, somebody else will probably appear to be in a more stable, and thus potentially successful situation. I understood that going in, and that it could take a long time for just the right opportunity came up… it did take about a year and a half of looking for us to finally chance upon Bowpi.

I digress. The point is that BRAT, like responsible breeders, provide a lifetime "safety net" for the dog. But I guess this does require the owner to honor the contract on their end. I just don't understand why this doesn't always happen. Owners feel embarrassed that they have to give up their dog? They find it more "convenient" to rehome the dog themselves? Could it possibly be that the matter of a few hundred dollar's "rehoming fee" makes that much of a difference to them, financially? I'm assuming that even responsible breeders are not obligated to refund any money after some time. The guarantee is not about money (though it may take money to enforce it), but to help ensure peace of mind. That's the shared priority for breeders and owners alike -- never having to wonder or doubt if the dog is okay.

[LindaH]

@YodelDogs:

Her breeder was her owner prior to being fostered for BRAT. Did she go back to the breeder?

Robyn, there have been several recent posts about Bunny and the search for her when she ran away.

The main thread can be found here. Do a search for "Bunny" or for the user name "greg p" and you'll come up with some of the other threads concerning Bunny. (Be sure to have a box of kleenex handy!)

[lvoss]

@curlytails:

I just don't understand why this doesn't always happen. Owners feel embarrassed that they have to give up their dog? They find it more "convenient" to rehome the dog themselves? Could it possibly be that the matter of a few hundred dollar's "rehoming fee" makes that much of a difference to them, financially?

I think for many it the the embarrassment. Or they just forget about the contract and that they were supposed to contact the breeder.

I know from experience that alot of owners feel bad about contacting the breeder when they are having issues with their puppy or dog. I guess they feel like they should be able to handle it and admitting they can't would be like admitting they aren't the right home. I don't know but I do know that many wait until what started as a small issue has snowballed into a much larger one. I recently had a visit with a puppy owner because my mom felt that though the owners said everything was okay they would say they were just dealing with a few small issues and didn't say what they were. It made her feel like we should visit and see what was going on so that things didn't turn into big problems. I am glad we went and visited and I think that they needed a little targeted advice and it is always nice to visit with my pups in their homes. It is also good for the owners to hear that they don't have bad dogs, just typical basenjis being basenjis. Again, it comes back to pre-placement screening and having a relationship with the new owners that makes them comfortable contacting you for anything.

[YodelDogs]

@tanza:

Sometimes people lose the contact information of their breeders and sometimes they really don't believe that a responsible breeder will take back the dog regardless of the age…. and just start searching the internet and find BRAT. BRAT in the last number of years has been very good about trying to find the breeder.....

A couple of years ago, I got a phone message from someone who had obtained a puppy from me a few years prior. The couple had a baby and everything was ok until the baby started walking. The male, whom they had before they got the female pup from me, was growling at the child and had started snapping. The couple had taught their baby to be gentle with dogs and they never, ever left them unsupervised. The female started growling at the child too. The owners were distraught and made the decision to rehome the dogs. They contacted BRAT and I both on the same day. (They didn't think I really meant the part in my contract about taking a dog back for any reason, any time and that is why they contacted BRAT too.)

Arrangements were being made for me to take the female back and the male went into a BRAT foster home. Unfortunately, both dogs ended up having severe separation anxiety. After quite a few three-way conversations with a BRAT representative, the owners, and myself we decided that it was in the dogs' best interest to be rehomed together. The owners and I agreed to let BRAT take both and they did end up being adopted together.

The BRAT representative was very supportive to the owners and myself and I commend her for her willingness to work with us to figure out what was best for the dogs. That was the only dog of my breeding that has ever gone through rescue but if they ever have one come in they know I will be there.

[Patty M]

Wow Robyn, your story gave me goose bumps… it's nice to hear stories where things work as they should.

When someone rescues a dog through BRAT, I'm under the impression that they are required to sign a contract... is that true? I also thought that if you ever wanted to get rid of your BRAT basenji, that it must be returned to BRAT... again, can someone clarify that for me? I don't see a contract on the BRAT's website.

[nkjvcjs]

My Aries was bred by Linda Ehlers. She was retired and rehomed after she finished and had 3 litters.

There was a return clause in the contract. Well, the home sent Aries into a rescue. I found her on Petfinder, and contacted the BBR list, where someone identified her as Linda's. Linda was horrified, and was able to use the return clause in the contract to get the rescue to return Aries.

Aries flew through Chicago, and we picked her up, and decided to keep her, however there is a return clause in our contract with Linda, and Linda kept a co-ownership so she will never loose track of Aries again.

-Nicole

[DebraDownSouth]

Even I, a brat volunteer, had to sign a contract to get Cara… and have a home visit. LOL .. which I laughed about because all the home visits I have done in my life it was the first one for ME and I got to appreciate the stress from the other side.

Actually, you must contact BRAT. Trust me, if something happened to me, BRAT would not have an issue with either of my backup homes taking Cara... they'd just have to sign a contract. The contracts are to protect the dogs, but if you have reliable backup homes, BRAT will be happy to check and approve.

[lisastewart]

Brat does an excellent job. I got one of my puppies back from a BRAT volunteer when she was found in a no kill shelter in PA. Her owner had been killed in a logging accident and his family was not able to find her paperwork indicating where she had come from so they turned the 4 yr old girl in to a local shelter. This was 20 yrs ago before it as easy to contact via the internet etc. I was happy to get Katie back and she lived to almost 15 with us.

[khanis]

@DebraDownSouth:

I know for a fact that there are BCOA breeders who REFUSE to take back their dogs. Another issue I disagree with BRAT on is that these owners should be outed.

I know several Rottie clubs that kick a member out if they refuse to take back their dogs. I think it should be EVERY club. It is despicable.

Yes, it would be nice if ANY BCOA member that REFUSED to take a dog back lost their membership… and they should... as it is not abiding by the Recommended Code of Practices.
WHY should they be allowed the privilege of being a member of a club that they cannot follow a simple list of practices??
Unfortunately, this happens... and has, in fact, happened rather recently.

@nkjvcjs:

My Aries was bred by Linda Ehlers. She was retired and rehomed after she finished and had 3 litters.

There was a return clause in the contract. Well, the home sent Aries into a rescue. I found her on Petfinder, and contacted the BBR list, where someone identified her as Linda's. Linda was horrified, and was able to use the return clause in the contract to get the rescue to return Aries.

I have issues with people that do not return the dog as stated in the contract. I have found one of my own dogs, on puppyfind.com (hence my reason for advertising there now).
I was horrified to see that I dog that I sold to another breeder, was re-sold, EVEN after I tried to buy her back for more $$ and/or have her professionally handled/finished to her Championship at MY expense. The breeders said "no, the grandkis can't bear to be apart from her."
Yet, they re-sold her, INTACT, for half of what I sold her to them for… their reason?? They didn't think I wanted her... UM well you should have called me and asked!!!!
I believe in forgiveness to a point, but I will never forgive these people for their actions. It was uncalled for and against the contract that they had signed. Funny thing, they later purchased more than one dog from other breeders AFTER they re-sold my bitch!!

[DebraDownSouth]

Kathy, were you able to get the dog back? That is heart breaking. The truth is, unless you are rich, contracts don't help much. It is why I stayed co-owner on all my dogs until they were spay/neutered or championship and health clearances finished. It enabled me to go pick up a dog of mine that was being abused while the POS co-owner was at Westminster with her other dog. She didn't have the money to take legal actions, especially since I had pictures and vet documentation. But if I hadn't been able to retrieve the dog and been co-owner, I'd have been sunk.