I relate to all that!
But you should know that Juliana was anything but an authoritarian figure. She loathed protocol and regulations, had pacifistic inclinations, and was considered by many to be a true 'mother to the nation'. I'm pretty sure she didn't go to obedience class with Zarah…
Gizmo brutally attacked by German Shepard (warning! a little blood in the pictures).
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My experience is that picking the dog up can escalate aggression. You see it happen when two dogs are posturing, the standing over each other, stiff legs, hard eyes, etc and then someone picks one of the dogs up the other will pounce in that moment and try to attack the dog. Most of the time they will stay focused on the dog as they leap up to bite at it but can occassionally bite you.
It is one reason why learning body language is so important and practicing recall in many situations. As soon as the posturing starts, the best course of action is to call your dog to you and then you can pick them up and leave. The earlier you can spot the behavior and redirect, the better. It is really important to also realize that many people punish out the middle signals in the escalation so there are many of dogs who go from low level signals like stiff legs skip the growling and tooth displays and go straight to biting.
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I would have picked him up too, then I probably would have kicked the crap out of the german while holding Giz above my head. Over protective mama-style! Screaming and yelling like a true harpy! Then the owner… oh boy, would I go crazy on him! We'd see how he likes getting bitten on the neck!
All in all, I think you handled it as best as you could in the situation. (yay for not biting the owner) If the owner has any sense of shame, he probably won't go back to the dog park, so I'd ask around to some of the regulars to see if they know him.
Give Gizmo lots of love from Blaze and me, we wish him a speedy recovery. -
aww im so sorry you guys had to go through that!
I personally dont go to dog parks for this reason, strange dogs are unpredictable and unfortunately you cannot trust the general public to not bring aggressive or fearful dogs there. People have this idea in their head that their dog needs other dog interactions and needs doggy friends, which is really not true. Plus there are a lot safer ways to socialize your dog. You also cant trust the dogs at parks to be healthy and not carry any sort of communicable disease. -
Nerdy,
My heart goes out to you. Long long long time ago, I had a little white mutt (probably a maltese mix), and she got attacked by a pit bull. We were coming out of the apartment complex, she was on leash, the other guy and the pit bull were coming in, and the dog was not on the leash. He instantly grabbed hold of my Asya and shook her, and the owner did nothing. I was probably about 14 or 15, I wasn't even thinking, I was freaked out, I kicked the crap out of that pit bull as the owner just stood there watching. Then I grabbed my dog and hid behind the door (how lucky the door was there). Luckily no serious damage was done. So I know how you feel - your first instinct is to protect your baby, not to analyze the situation.
Good luck and speedy recovery to Gizmo!
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I have been told by our trainer that if you lift a Dog you are elevating them in status, so maybe the attacking dog escalates it's attack to challenge it's status?
I'm sure i would have reacted the same even knowing this, it's a knee jerk reaction to protect your Dog.
Malaika does realy like to play with other Dogs and i feel she should mix with her own species, however i am trying to do it in as safe a way as possible.
When we go to the park(public, not Dog) i tend to let her off lead if no Dogs are around and try to get her back before we meet other Dogs. Once i've met up with the owner and chatted i let her off if everything seems well. I must admit it is nerve wracking though and i feel over protective, but reading this about poor Gizmo and Helena's pup makes me think i'm right.
Has Dog society become more aggressive like the human one ? or has it always been like this ? -
aww im so sorry you guys had to go through that!
I personally dont go to dog parks for this reason, strange dogs are unpredictable and unfortunately you cannot trust the general public to not bring aggressive or fearful dogs there. People have this idea in their head that their dog needs other dog interactions and needs doggy friends, which is really not true. Plus there are a lot safer ways to socialize your dog. You also cant trust the dogs at parks to be healthy and not carry any sort of communicable disease.Well, it's a shame you stay away from dog parks due to your "fear". And besides, everyone in the park does not know what your dog is like either…they too are worried your dog might attack theirs...the trust goes both ways. You are apart of "the general public" yourself.
To be fair, we are in constant danger...never know when some madman might pull a gun etc. Same with diseases, most of the time you get sick is because you catch it from someone else just by going to work or the store.
Dogs need socializing and can get depressed just like us, and the dog park is one of the best places for Gizmo to be "free". And with strict leash laws, it's the only place where he can run free.
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Dog parks tend to be bad because people stand around chatting and are not really doing anything to manage their dogs while they interact. There seems to be less issues at places where the people keep moving and therefore the dogs keep moving to keep track of their people and have more motivation to check in frequently. The interactions between the dogs seem to be easier to redirect since they are on the move and not so focused on each other.
As for dogs, who slip away from their owners and attack other dogs in public, they are a whole other issue. Many didn't get ideal starts in life, either genetically or socialization wise and many don't get all of their basic needs met. Owners seem to think food, water, and shelter are all the need to provide neglecting companionship, physical exercise and mental exercise. Many people who own dogs don't seem to understand that it takes time and effort to train and relationship build with their dog. They are under the false impression that dogs should just know how to behave and want to please them simply because.
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People have this idea in their head that their dog needs other dog interactions and needs doggy friends, which is really not true.
This is absolutely the truth. I have taken my dogs to dog parks and I have only 1 who actually enjoys it and even she is not that keen on it as she gets older. My dogs do not like to interact with strange dogs and not all of them are even big on having dog friends.
Dogs do not need the dog park to have a fulfilled life and there are other ways to get socialization that carry less risk than dog parks. Most dogs would be just as happy, and in some cases happier, to have your undivided attention doing something together.
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Well, it's a shame you stay away from dog parks due to your "fear". And besides, everyone in the park does not know what your dog is like either…they too are worried your dog might attack theirs...the trust goes both ways. You are apart of "the general public" yourself.
To be fair, we are in constant danger...never know when some madman might pull a gun etc. Same with diseases, most of the time you get sick is because you catch it from someone else just by going to work or the store.
Dogs need socializing and can get depressed just like us, and the dog park is one of the best places for Gizmo to be "free". And with strict leash laws, it's the only place where he can run free.
Im not afraid, Im realistic, as what happened to you is actually VERY common. I would much rather have dogs I know (temperment and health wise) over to my house, or their house for playdates with my dog, then to allow him to run freely in a large area with a bunch of dogs and owners I dont know.
And yah danger can happen anywhere, but if i am in a room full of 30 different people who are getting excited over something (not only happy excited but including arguements-which happen frequently between dogs at parks if you watch their body language) and some of those people have guns, then the liklihood of someone pulling a gun on someone else raises, because you are purposely in a scenario that allows it.Dogs do not need dog friends, adequate activity, physical and mental, being allowed to socialize with their family (human or otherwise) is more then enough for any dog to not get depressed. If your dog suffers from depression then you need to look at you and your dog, and not other people to fix it.
Research dog behaviour, social and pack, you will see what I am saying.
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Im not afraid, Im realistic, as what happened to you is actually VERY common. I would much rather have dogs I know (temperment and health wise) over to my house, or their house for playdates with my dog, then to allow him to run freely in a large area with a bunch of dogs and owners I dont know.
And yah danger can happen anywhere, but if i am in a room full of 30 different people who are getting excited over something (not only happy excited but including arguements-which happen frequently between dogs at parks if you watch their body language) and some of those people have guns, then the liklihood of someone pulling a gun on someone else raises, because you are purposely in a scenario that allows it.Dogs do not need dog friends, adequate activity, physical and mental, being allowed to socialize with their family (human or otherwise) is more then enough for any dog to not get depressed. If your dog suffers from depression then you need to look at you and your dog, and not other people to fix it.
Research dog behaviour, social and pack, you will see what I am saying.
Completely agree! Some dogs are social butterflies and love to visit their friends…some dogs are not. Just like people...some people love the club scene, some hate it, and find it totally uncomfortable.
And, seriously, Gizmo's dad...we aren't all in danger at all times...that is kind of unrealistic...yes, wierd things can and do happen, but the likelihood of someone pulling a gun on most of us at any given time is very, VERY small. Now...most of us who have been around dogs for any length of time have seen bad things happen at dog parks...so that would imply that the risk is high, and people have to weigh the consequences, and use their heads (like MacPack)
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Sorry to hear about Gizmo, my thoughts are with you. We had to decrease our park visits because Dash was posturing a little too much. We still hit the small dog section, so he is not as defensive.
That owner should not be allowwed to use the dog park. If you know your dog would "kill" another dog. what are you thinking. What an ass.
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I would have picked him up too, then I probably would have kicked the crap out of the german while holding Giz above my head. Over protective mama-style! Screaming and yelling like a true harpy! Then the owner… oh boy, would I go crazy on him! We'd see how he likes getting bitten on the neck!
I've been in a couple of similar situations and I can tell you that's EXACTLY what I would have done, even if I do "know better". All of the stuff I've learned about dog behavior, triggers, challenges, escalating aggression….tends to go out the window when I'm suddenly confronted with a potential life-or-death situation & I have a few seconds to react to protect my dog!
And my personal safety fails to cross my mind in those moments- I'd much rather get bitten than allow my dog to be injured, like somebody else said.
Nerdy, if I could hug ya, I would. I know it's awful when your dog gets hurt and you feel like you "could" have done something different. But what's done is done....and in all reality you did FINE. None of us can say for sure we'd have done any better, none of us were in your shoes. There is NO sense in guilt-tripping yourself while replaying the incident in your mind. You acted in the moment, you responded to an immediate threat, you did what came naturally. Your dog is hurt but he's alive and he will be just fine...and that's the main thing!
The only person who deserves blame in this situation is the owner of the GSD. He should know better...he SHOULD NOT bring a known aggressive dog to a dog park. Ever. Period, end of story. There is NO excuse for it. The others are correct....a dog doesn't "need" to play with doggy friends at the park....that's purely a human concept of social behavior and dogs don't necessarily operate that way. It's great for dogs who DO enjoy it but there is no reason to bring an anti-social dog thinkig it can be forced into playing nicey-nice. That GSD is a perfect example of a dog who absolutely had NO REASON to be at a dog park.
Yes, some dogs LOVE the dog park....it can be a great way to exercise and have fun WITH A SOCIAL DOG. I've gone to some great dog parks- MacPack's local dog park is probably one of the best I've ever been to, with a good group of regulars who tend not to allow a newcomer with a nasty dog to stick around very long. But when people bring dogs like this Shepherd to the park, and they fail to recognize the danger they're putting other people in....AND nobody at the park stands up to the owner and TELLS them to remove their dog....it ruins the experience for everyone!!
Like others said, if you really feel Gizmo enjoys the dog park and you don't want to quit going altogether, just be more picky about when you go, and leave at the first indication that somebody is present with a nasty dog.
One small thing I'll put out for your consideration- I don't know how old Gizmo is, but I do know that some Basenjis, esp. males...develop an increased level of intolerance for other dogs once they are fully mature...2 to 4 years is pretty common. My Jibini used to love the park...we'd go 3-4 times a week when he was a puppy & it was a regular thing for the first 3 yrs of his life. There was a time when another dog could snarl & body check him and he'd offer no reaction other than to be playful. But around age 3, suddenly he developed a new attitude. Seemed to get defensive in situations with a lot of strange dogs. Would not tolerate any sort of "challenge" from another dog. Didn't take much to trigger an aggressive/dominant reaction out of him, and if another dog failed to back down, he'd want to fight. It caused me to cut WAY down on our dog park visits and I ultimately stopped bringing him due to the risk. I say this ONLY for you to think about- if Gizmo is around this age range now, it is possible his love for the dog park could be changing. It's up to you to decide what's best for him of course
Anyway, I am SO sorry that you and Gizmo had such a scary ordeal! Here's hoping he feels better soon....and that you're able to get the info on that Shepherd owner & take action to prevent him from bringing his time-bomb to the dog park any more.
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Have you thought about going to a sight hounds lure event and hook up with some Basenji people and arrange some social events with them vs a dog park?
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I think I will post up a sign asking for the owner of the Shepard to contact me. See how that goes.
Other than that I will be taking trips up to the park at the same time he was there, usually people have a routine and I am hoping that was his. If he does not want to give me his name I will just have to take pictures of his car license-plate and hand that in to the police.
@ nobarkus
Sadly there is no lure events here. -
Dog parks tend to be bad because people stand around chatting and are not really doing anything to manage their dogs while they interact. There seems to be less issues at places where the people keep moving and therefore the dogs keep moving to keep track of their people and have more motivation to check in frequently. The interactions between the dogs seem to be easier to redirect since they are on the move and not so focused on each other.
This is the reason I love going to the area I take Sonny too. It's 118 acres and the dog owners go there to walk themselves not just the dogs
We cover about 4 miles around the farm and along the way Sonny runs and plays with the different dogs we cross paths with along our walk. Sonny interacts much better when it's just a few dogs then a whole pack playing in one area.Nerdy I'm really sorry for what happened. I had an encounter similar to yours last year and I did the same thing you did. I wrestled Sonny away from the other dog and lifted him off the ground and I'm the one who ended up with the bite marks. Your 1st instinct tells you to protect your dog and everything else goes out the window….
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@sonnyboy:
Sonny interacts much better when it's just a few dogs then a whole pack playing in one area.
Kananga is the same way, a big reason why I haven't gone back to the dog parks. He just gets overwhelmed.
Around my building we're always bumping into other dogs. He loves to meet with dogs he knows (usually 1 or 2 at a time) and is very neutral with them. I have yet to see him get snarky with any dogs. It's fun to watch him sit and wag his tail when he sees dogs off in the distance (funny how I didn't even teach him to do that, he sits by default).
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I think I will post up a sign asking for the owner of the Shepard to contact me. See how that goes.
Other than that I will be taking trips up to the park at the same time he was there, usually people have a routine and I am hoping that was his. If he does not want to give me his name I will just have to take pictures of his car license-plate and hand that in to the police.
Part of me feels the owner should be responsible for any vet bills you incurred. He fully knew the capabilities of his dog, in regards to aggression, and he should be reimbursing you for being negligent.
There's an owner in my building that has a larger dog, who can get aggressive (just a bit unstable at times really), and he knows the capabilities of that dog so he always has her on a leash and knows to keep some distance with other dogs. Every once and awhile he'll let her get a bit close to Kananga just to say hi, but he's always very cautious, ready to take control at any point of conflict.
I'm just disappointed that someone would allow their dog to roam off leash around other dogs when they themselves even said their dog would kill another dog at a point of conflict. Hopefully you find out who this person is and let others know of what happened. I'd be mostly worried about a repeat scenario with another dog, and they might not be as lucky…
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I haven't taken Buddy to the dog park for a while. The last time we were there for 1 hour and all was fine. He was playing with this larger dog for about 20 minutes and they played well until the guy threw a ball and they both went for it and his dog attacked Buddy. No bite marks were found. That seems to cause problems when there's balls or Frisbees and the dogs get competitive or possessive. My neighbor just got a new friendly dog and I take him over there and I'm going to meet up with some other Basenji owners for get togethers near me. The only other dog park I go to is 200 acres so everybody is moving and walking.
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I'm sorry to hear of this. And I'm glad you and Gizmo are okay.
I walk AJ on lead in most places because I'd rather he not try to acquaint himself with an 80,000 pound truck. There are other drivers who walk their dogs off lead. A couple weeks ago, there was a Sheltie mix bitch who was off lead. She saw AJ and made a beeline for him. I yelled to her owner to call her back or she will get bitten for rushing my dog. Luckily, she returned to him when he called her. This was not long after AJ bit the Basset that rushed him.
He does just fine without dog socializing. I know he will bite if rushed and will never turn down a challenge even from a Pit Bull. Therefore, for his own safety and for the safety of rude dogs, he is kept on lead and very carefully introduced to no more than two dogs at a time and only after I have talked with the owner and observed the other dog. And then I watch him very closely for signs things aren't going well. The very second it starts looking iffy, I call him in and remove him from the situation.
I hope Gizmo does not have any lasting issues because of this.
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Part of me feels the owner should be responsible for any vet bills you incurred.
That's the main reason for me trying to get a hold of him. There is a sign with rules before you enter the park, and one of them is that you are responsible for any damage your dog does.
