Advice needed please

[thunderbird8588]

We have two things at the moment that we could use some advice on with Malaika.
The first one is what to do if she growls at us :eek:
This has happened twice and because our last boy could be rather aggresive we want to be realy sure we deal with things in the correct way.
Each time this has happened Malaika has been very excited, on the first occasion i was putting washing on the radiator and she kept grabbing at it, i told her to leave which she ignored so i picked her up and she growled, i was rather surprised and told her NO, she then nipped me.
Today she was playing with my parents Papillon and again was very excited and rough so we picked her up to calm her down, she growled so Howard told her No in a calm voice and this didn't result in a nip.
I am worried about stopping her growling as i know this is a warning signal, however i don't realy find it acceptable.
The other issue is that she is a little thug :eek: At the moment she can only mix with a few fully vaccinated dogs untill she is fully vacinated herself.
So far she has been very rough, my parents Papillon growls, snaps and chases her away but she doesn't take the hint. Not sure how much we should intervene, obviously we do if the other dog is distressed. Are all Basenji pups so rough?

[lukris]

Hi Shelley, Milo went through the growl thing. He was so sweet mainly but if he was sleeping on the sofa and you tried to move him, he would growl. We didn't punish this, we only changed how we moved him. Gave a treat to avoid the unpleasantness if you like. However, a stern voice does seem to help and eventually they get the message. I think you have to be firm but at the same time think about a different way to get what you want rather than fighting against them. Btw, now we can move him when sleeping etc without any reaction so it does seem to be short lived if you deal with it right from the start.

good luck
Theresa

[Patty]

She is obviously tring to assert herself. Don't worry too much about the growling -just be calm and firm and show her that you disapprove. Above all be consistent with this and make sure all of you react in the same way- (if she thinks she can get away with it sometimes she may take that as a permission).
I can understand your worry because of your previous experience but obviously he was not taught in the beginning that this was wrong. Quiet firmness is always the key.

When she nips or even tugs at sleeves try yelping like another basenji. Mine have always learnt like this and immediately stop in surprise that we sound hurt. "Leave" is good -when my Basenjis have tried to play with something inappropriate (after all it's all a game to them) I say "Mine". They all get to know that word and differentiate whether its a toy or not.

[thunderbird8588]

Thanks for your imput Theresa and Helena. Benji used to growl at us when we tried to move him from the settee, we did learn to move him without putting our hands on him.
Malaika can't jump onto the firniture yet , but when she can we plan to teach her Off to try and avoid this problem.
Helena i think probably Howard reacted better than i did, he remained calm, kept hold of her but told her no, wereas i shouted No because i was a bit shocked at this sweet little pup growling at me, i had visions of Benji all over again
She is quite good about leaving and a yelp or sharp leave seems to work most times.
It just seems to be when she gets realy excited that problems arise, almost like the devil gets into her.

[sharronhurlbut]

How old is this pup?

[thunderbird8588]

Hi Sharron, Malaika is 11 weeks old.

[nobarkus]

I had a red/wht named Ringo that was very growly his whole life. He just automatically growled when you'd pick him up. He wouldn't bite just very growly. I'd just tell him "oh quiet you rascal".

[thunderbird8588]

@nobarkus:

I had a red/wht named Ringo that was very growly his whole life. He just automatically growled when you'd pick him up. He wouldn't bite just very growly. I'd just tell him "oh quiet you rascal".

Thanks Dan, this puts it into perspective a bit for me

[Quercus]

I think it is probably just a tantrum, to see if she can get her way. Do LOTS of picking her up, don't put her down until she relaxes, not matter how wild she gets. Ignore the growling, or just say 'too bad honey, you gotta do it'. Lots of puppies try this at this age, it doesn't mean she is going to have a nasty temperament…she just needs to learn it isn't going to get her what she wants. She is the size and age, that you can physically control her, and teach her what is acceptable, as she gets bigger, and more experienced it is harder to do that. This does tell you that she will be the kind of girl who knows what she wants, and will do what she can to get it...so I would start working a kind of "nothing in life for free" program with her.

[tanza]

I agree with the "nothing in life for free" program…. it is reward based, but it teaches them that the human is the "head" of the house and they need to learn to respect the human lead...

[nobarkus]

It's a control issue. Ringo like to make sure he let people and large dogs know that he wasn't going to be controlled except it didn't work with me. He knew what I wanted was going to happen. Some dogs like people have control issues. You can't let it intimidate or stop you from controlling the dog. Ringo knew after a while that what I wanted him to do was in his best interest. He would still do his little growly thing but that's just him complaining.

[lvoss]

The growl is just information. It lets you know when she doesn't like something. Now you can use that information to work with her so she becomes accepting of being picked up. Lots of dogs really don't enjoy being handled and restrained.

We just got back from puppy class where we practiced, "Grab me, Feed me". The object is to teach the puppy when a person grabs at you that good things (food) is likely to happen. We would grab their collar then feed them. Then maybe grab their ruff and feed, hold their leg and feed, etc so they started to get the idea that being touched even occassionally roughly means good things will likely happen. This also teaches them to like being handled though because they start to associate the handling with the food so they become more accepting of handling.

[sharronhurlbut]

Some folks punish growling harshly. That gives the dog no option.
Stay quiet and then BITE.
Please, as Pat says, its just information. Sort of like a kid grumbing about something.

[thunderbird8588]

Thanks everyone for your advice, i understand about the growl being a warning and have to curb my natural reaction to stopping it. It worried me a bit when she nipped me after being told No, it was a peevish bite and not a play bite. In reterospect i realise i should have used a calm voice.
As for the nothing in life is free training, we are working on getting her to see us a leaders, ie we are in charge of her toys, we get her to sit before her meal etc. We also ignore her first demands to be picked up and cuddled, and try to invite her over to us before picking her up.
Roll on the puppy classes.

[Quercus]

@lvoss:

The growl is just information. It lets you know when she doesn't like something. Now you can use that information to work with her so she becomes accepting of being picked up. Lots of dogs really don't enjoy being handled and restrained.

We just got back from puppy class where we practiced, "Grab me, Feed me". The object is to teach the puppy when a person grabs at you that good things (food) is likely to happen. We would grab their collar then feed them. Then maybe grab their ruff and feed, hold their leg and feed, etc so they started to get the idea that being touched even occassionally roughly means good things will likely happen. This also teaches them to like being handled though because they start to associate the handling with the food so they become more accepting of handling.

I like this advice a lot!

[Patty]

Shelley - I agree that Howards' was the better reaction but as I said it's understandable that you were worried because of your previous experiences.

I hope now by everyones' comments and advice that you now realise that this is no major problem? Malaika is a different baby and she's yours to shape into a lovely girl - the good thing is that you've seen the worst and have the knowledge to avoid it!!

Talking about growling - here's a laugh, Adonis, our Fula Tri, was excelled in obedience competition but from the age he started to the age he died he accompanied all his obedience actions with a low growl saying "I'm only doing this because you want me to." He had the sweetest temperament with young and old, known and unknown and the growl never meant "I'm going to bite you."

[thunderbird8588]

@Patty:

Shelley - I agree that Howards' was the better reaction but as I said it's understandable that you were worried because of your previous experiences.

I hope now by everyones' comments and advice that you now realise that this is no major problem? Malaika is a different baby and she's yours to shape into a lovely girl - the good thing is that you've seen the worst and have the knowledge to avoid it!!

Talking about growling - here's a laugh, Adonis, our Fula Tri, was excelled in obedience competition but from the age he started to the age he died he accompanied all his obedience actions with a low growl saying "I'm only doing this because you want me to." He had the sweetest temperament with young and old, known and unknown and the growl never meant "I'm going to bite you."

:D:D Adonis sounded a real character and what a name, no wonder he had big ideas