I have had the pleasure of owning both breeds. There is another forum member here who also has a basenji and a Shiba. Lol, they are both very stubborn breeds. Depending on what you want they are very different though. Shibas need a lot of care for grooming, they blow a lot of coat and can get matted fur, on the other hand they make a very good watch dog. Basenjis don't bark but make a multitude of other noises. Their coat is nice and short for less grooming, though they too blow coat, just not as bad as a Shiba. They both maintain puppy characteristics their whole lives and live long lives. I think our Shiba was 16 when we lost her. Both need a lot of socialization, with both people and dogs. This is a must. Good luck with whatever breed you choose. Look at parents for temperament and do your reading on health problems and make sure you adopt from a reputable breeder.
Hello from Edmonton, AB!
-
Scott, I'm not sure if it's me your talking about with the Prob Affected dog from a sire of a breeder who doesn't test. If it is, it's not a problem. I had that litter before the test was made available. I also know of a litter born late last year, a Ind x Ind mating, which has produced a Prob Affected pup. IMO there was no need for this mating to take place as it's not worth the risk. I am now searching hard for a Clear dog for my carrier bitch but it's not easy.
I have compiled a spreadsheet of all UK stock. I am getting my details from the OFA website and noting all UK dogs and whether they are Clear, Carrier, Ind or Aff. It is interesting to see the percentage of Affected stock. So far, and I have not updated my list for a couple of months due to the swab shortage etc, there is about 7% of all TESTED stock showing as Prob Affected. I do not have the list to hand so this is from memory.
-
Hi vicki - yes it was you i was referring to as the owner of a dog sired by one owned by someone who doest test - and of course prior to the test there was no way of knowing so it certainly wasnt a dig at you - my gripe is with those who do not test now that one is available. I agree that there is no need to carry out unsafe breeding i.e. any mating that could produce affected pups. And if people go to the bother of testing - then why do matings that can produce affecteds? its beyond me.
Thats great news about compiling test results - it would make very interesting reading - and i have to say 7% is not an insignificant percentage to test as prob affected. It would be interesting to know out of that percentage how many have went on to develop Fanconi.
-
The one problem with the % of Affected is that there are many that were spilling before the test was available, so those were never tested, so it would be a higher percentage had they been tested and in the database. Not a huge number, but certainly would change the results.
-
I wonder what percentage of Basenjis suffer from heart problems, epilepsy, IPSID, thyroid problems, liver problems, temperament problems, early aging etc - each possibly higher than 7% (which although not insignificant, is certainly not high) and as I posted before not high enough to concern the KC. There are a very significant number of Basenjis who die at 13 - this seems a much more major problem to me. We must all remember that horrible as Fanconi Syndrome is, it is treatable and I understand with much success.
-
I wonder what percentage of Basenjis suffer from heart problems, epilepsy, IPSID, thyroid problems, liver problems, temperament problems, early aging etc - each possibly higher than 7% (which although not insignificant, is certainly not high) and as I posted before not high enough to concern the KC. There are a very significant number of Basenjis who die at 13 - this seems a much more major problem to me. We must all remember that horrible as Fanconi Syndrome is, it is treatable and I understand with much success.
Treatable???
By that I assume you mean stuffing pills down a dogs throat in hopes they keep them down and not go on a starvation diet, or better yet, just continually puke any and everything you can get into their system, even if for only nanoseconds.
I am not sure how good that sounds to you, but I have been there, done that, and there is NO breeding worth the remote possibility of this situation!
Temperament issues can be culled from breeding easily…spay/neuter them... and put down the ones that are a liability.
Thyroid problems are a little harder, as one could test normal today, but low tomorrow, and then normal again next week.
Fanconi... TESTING is the only answer at this point.Don't kid yourself.
Until you have lived with a Fanconi Affected dog, you truly have no idea how horrific the disease can be to said dog. -
Kathy is very right…this fanconi is awful..for the dog, for the human, AWFUL.
I have been there as well.
I won't own a fanconi b again...its just to hard on the dog and on the family. -
And I agree, can treat, yes… is it fun...NOT... ask anyone that has had to stuff 15 to 35pills a day down a dog.... and while some do really well on the treatment, many do not... Kathy can attest to that... her Benny did not... and I know many others that both do well and do not do well. And how many pet owners are dedicated enough to make sure they figure out a way to stuff those pills down?... Hard enough for breeders and many of them don't want to do that either...
-
Its not only the pills, its the volume of pee these dogs have to do. My boy would stand over the water dish and drink until I thougth he would explode. Then he would be full of water and no way he could hold it. Most folks are not able to set up a place for a fanconi dog to pee, unless the dog is outside. It something seldom spoken off. BUT its also an issue.
-
"I wonder what percentage of Basenjis suffer from heart problems, epilepsy, IPSID, thyroid problems, liver problems, temperament problems, early aging etc - each possibly higher than 7% (which although not insignificant, is certainly not high) and as I posted before not high enough to concern the KC. There are a very significant number of Basenjis who die at 13 - this seems a much more major problem to me"
Patty, the difference is that Fanconi is the only one of these issues that we have a good indicative test for. I dont think that anyone is saying its the only thing that should be considered, but when its the one thing that you CAN do something about preventing in your breeding programme with a fair degree of certainty, then there is no excuse not to use the test.
-
Potential puppy buyers need to stop buying Bs from breeders who do not DNA test for Fanconi and I hope the breeders will get the message either to test or be stuck with a bunch of pups they cannot sell. This includes pups being sold at pet stores because those breeders definitely do not test. If the breeders supposedly cannot afford the cost of the test then they do not need to be breeding Bs.
Potential buyers inquiring about a B pup and finds out the breeder does not test need to tell that breeder that they will not buy a pup from them because they do not test! Do not be fooled when they tell you that Fanconi does not run in their lines or they have never had a dog that had it. In the U.S. some of these breeders acquired their breeding dogs from the dog auctions and/or from other breeders getting out of the business. These breeders do not know the health history of these dogs and many do not stay in the breed for long and own Bs that are older that are no longer breeding.
-
I wonder what percentage of Basenjis suffer from heart problems, epilepsy, IPSID, thyroid problems, liver problems, temperament problems, early aging etc - each possibly higher than 7% (which although not insignificant, is certainly not high) and as I posted before not high enough to concern the KC. There are a very significant number of Basenjis who die at 13 - this seems a much more major problem to me. We must all remember that horrible as Fanconi Syndrome is, it is treatable and I understand with much success.
Actually, 7% which as Pat pointed out is probably is underrepresenting the real number because people aren't going to test if the dog is already spilling, is actually quite significant. It is almost double the percentage of dogs that were affected with PKD when the test for that came out. In our breed, most of the issues we consider a problem are being reported in less than 10% of dogs but we also have to remember that 10% means 1 in every 10 dogs is affected. Which really is significant.
The Canine Phenome Project does track these things for us. We do rely on owners to fill out the health surveys so we have accurate information.
With 1500 people responding, the currrent statistics for the disorders you list are:
heart problems 1.2%
epilepsy 0.8%
IPSID 1.2%
thyroid problems 4.8%
liver problems 0.5%
temperament problems 6.5%So even in comparison, Fanconi at 7% is a big deal.
-
I will update my UK testing list over the next week or so as I'm sure that my precentage of 7% will be a little lower now with the influx of this year's pups. Also, I take your point that 7% is a significant figure but please remember how few Bs we have in the UK. Those 7% of Prob Affected dogs can be counted on 2 hands. This is a very low number and all tested Affected dogs belong to responsible breeders (such as myself) who are continuing to test and breed responsibly.
-
Kathy and the others who've had to treat Fanconi affected dogs - I'm sorry if you've been upset by my saying that Fanconi is treatable. I was in no way implying it's easy to treat and can't comment obviously on the traumas involved as I've never had to treat. I feel very sorry indeed for the dogs and their owners and have never thought that Fanconi itself as a disease is in any way insignificant. I do know that there are some on this forum in the UK who may have to face this too and I wouldn't want them to think either that I don't feel terribly for them. Figures are easy to quote but it is the ones applicable (in this case 7 out of every 100) who are really suffering. The other 93 are lucky. (Each man's death diminishes me')
I have had the experience of having to force treatment down a very ill dog though (in this case dying of strychnine poisoning} and do know how painful it was for us, wondering if we were being cruel. In our case I think we were, as our beautiful bitch died any way. Every one makes their own decision. Believe me, I suffer for you all who have Fanconi affected dogs but above all, for your Basenjis!.
Thank you for the information on other diseases Ivoss but I was mainly wondering about the UK. When our KC conducted a health questionnaire, the take up was very low - in my opinion too many breeders were afraid for themselves rather than bothered about the breed and it's future. I've heard of and seen more cases of IPSID (for example) in the UK than I have Fanconi.
Scott, that's not quite true that we don't have tests for other diseases! If you read through many advisory posts on this forum you'll see there are tests for all sorts of conditions. It is also fairly easy to avoid those lines where their Basenjis age quickly, in my opinion.
And yes, there are reasons for not testig obviously as otherwise we'd all be testing!!I have devoted my life to the Basenji and any progress towards its eventual near perfect health is of utter concern to me and so welcome the present ability to identify markers which may eventually eliminate Fanconi Syndrome.
