Haha… they might have deserved that even if Kai is Fanconi clear, just by being irresponsible with a large number of dogs/puppies
Agreed!
I have done some research on this breeder though, if they were very bad..there would be something online about them, I mean, I know how I am when I have a bad experience with a company, I bitch and complain about them non-stop online for a few days.
Agreed!
I have done some research on this breeder though, if they were very bad..there would be something online about them, I mean, I know how I am when I have a bad experience with a company, I bitch and complain about them non-stop online for a few days.
People who buy from breeders like that are often not aware of the health problems that the specific breed might have. You say your partner did the research, but a lot of people would not even know where to start. Plus a lot of people who buy dogs/cats/whatever from "designer" breeders buy them for gifts for someone else, so the dog/cat/whatever is not their problem anymore, and the actual owner often does not know who the breeder is and what to do about it if the animal gets sick.
renaultf1, they told me they have no had any instances of Fanconi in their bloodline in the past 5 years.
Fact is, SOMEBODY is going to buy him, and I would rather it be myself, I'm not going to risk him going to a home where he might be abused.
Again, your choice… but in the end, anyone that buys a puppy from this type of breeder is just supporting them in making money, because they sure don't care about the buyers or the dogs.
As for telling you no Fanconi, if they do not test they do not know, like walking around with a blindfold on... And they very well might be right, he might only be a Carrier.. or Clear for that matter. The question is the ethics of the breeder, who IMO has none.
Agreed!
I have done some research on this breeder though, if they were very bad..there would be something online about them, I mean, I know how I am when I have a bad experience with a company, I bitch and complain about them non-stop online for a few days.
You might think so, however… if they provide what is in their contract, little as it might be and full fill their part of the agreement... then if you bad mouth them... they can turn around and sue you for slander or Defamation of Character
Tanza, it is my choice, but NEWSFLASH!!! If I don't buy him, somebody else will.
Maybe not.
Puppymills like this are known to dump stock into rescues or shelters when they can't sell them. Yes it is hard on those dogs, but it is the only way to prevent the 30, 50, 100 other offspring these puppymills might breed.
These are the purebreds that end up filling up shelters. Responsible breeders make sure their dogs don't end up in shelters. Puppymills and BYBs don't.
By buying from them, you encourage them to produce more, and more untested dogs, without the benefit of the breed, the buyers or the dogs themselves in mind.
If you can give a good home to a dog that may have fanconi, and you are not concerned with showing, or another sport, please, please consider adopting a basenji. If you are sure you only want a puppy, buy from a responsible breeder, who will take responsibility for the puppy for the rest of his life.
Please read this: http://blacksheepcardigans.com/ruff/?p=3452
-Nicole
Tanza, it is my choice, but NEWSFLASH!!! If I don't buy him, somebody else will.
Maybe but maybe not. Rescue has gotten several puppies and at times entire litters and parents from these types of breeders when they find that their buyers are educated enough to walk away from a sale when it is clear that what should be MINIMUM care is not provided.
It is your choice but by supporting breeders like these you are saying you don't care about health and that you support for profit breeders who do not care about the breed nor the puppies they produce.
5 years isn't very long and with Fanconi being late onset a breeder can easily breed 5 years and make the claim they have never had a sick dog. It also does not mean they have not produced one, only that they do not know about it.
Buyer Beware and if you choose to stick head in the sand then you better be willing to fork over the cash to pay for that choice if it turns out badly and take responsibility for that choice.
I have been following this thread and I wanted to chime in as someone who has a basenji with Fanconi. She was bred before the marker test was available and was just diagnosed about a year and a half ago. I love her to pieces and she is my dog and I will do whatever it takes to keep her healthy for as long as possible. But I must say, if I had the choice 4 years ago to get a pup from a breeder that tested and knew that their puppy was DEFINITELY clear of Fanconi vs. a breeder that chose not to do an easy test and therefore their pup may or may not have it, I definitely would have chosen to support the breeder that was doing the responsible thing by testing. It's not that the dog is any more or less loveable - as they are all loveable - it's more a matter of choosing which breeder to support - do I support the breeder that is helping to rid basenjis of this awful disease, or do I support the breeder that doesn't care about the health of their basenjis? Now that there is a test available, there is no reason for there ever to be another dog with fanconi. ever. And if there is a pup with fanconi, it is purely because the breeder was not being responsible - and that is not a breeder that I want to support.
And just to give you a "day in the life" of a fanconi basenji. Tayda takes 18-20 pills per day. every day. Depending on the day it could be more or less. 10 of them have to be given whole so I hide them in cream cheese, pry open her mouth and wipe them on the roof of her mouth. Sometimes she swallows them, and sometimes she spits them out and I have to keep trying until she swallows them. The rest of the pills I crush in her food and she usually eats them. We go to the vet every 6 months or so to get her bloodwork checked and depending on those results her pills are adjusted. She drinks probably a gallon of water a day and therefore has to pee all the time. She has not slept through the night in about 6 months - which means I have not slept t through the night in about 6 months. I have another basenji, Lenny, who is Fanconi clear. He is very very bonded to Tayda and I worry about how he is going to take it when/if she passes before he does.
Like I said, I love my dogs and they are mine forever. I never for one second regretted getting her - but I have to say - it really sucks sometimes…. lots of ups and downs and nerves when going to the vet and waiting for results.
I can tell you are already attached to the pup that you plan to get - but I really hope you take some of this to heart.....
In other news - I'm moving to Sacramento in 4 weeks! Diffeq - I see you are from SAC! Maybe we can have a play date! It seems there are others in the area also!
You might think so, however… if they provide what is in their contract, little as it might be and full fill their part of the agreement... then if you bad mouth them... they can turn around and sue you for slander or Defamation of Character
Defamation only comes into play if what is said is claimed to be untrue. If someone bought a dog from a breeder, the breeder claimed the dog was not an affected dog and it turned out to be the opposite, the person who bought the dog could legally state that they were lied to (assuming they have proof to show that was the case). It's not defamation if it's true, regardless of contracts.
Actually, if you want to go the extra mile you can wire the funds instead of paying by cash or check. In the event that you are defrauded, the individual accepting the wire (presumably the one who committed the said fraud) automatically gets shifted into federal criminal charges since it was done by wire (wire fraud gets a lot more attention from federal authorities). It's actually what I did since I hate writing out checks. Granted I wasn't defrauded, I knew if I was lied to I would have a much firmer leg to stand on.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1343.html
Just a thought, anyone who knows/understands the law and is intentionally lying will avoid any wire transaction.
Tayda, trust me I have taken all this to heart.
But everyone keeps saying not to buy from BYB, yet I have yet to see someone mention an organization that people can go to, to report these BYB that breed B's with Fanconi, does one exist? And if not, why not?!
I mean, there's ripoffreport.com I guess…any others?
I've found a relative of Kai's… on this forum!
bellabasenji also has a B from the breeder we are getting Kai from:D
Then you should also read this thread about the health issues that they have in their lines including Bella's slipping Patellas.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=73697#post73697
Defamation only comes into play if what is said is claimed to be untrue. If someone bought a dog from a breeder, the breeder claimed the dog was not an affected dog and it turned out to be the opposite, the person who bought the dog could legally state that they were lied to (assuming they have proof to show that was the case). It's not defamation if it's true, regardless of contracts.
Actually, if you want to go the extra mile you can wire the funds instead of paying by cash or check. In the event that you are defrauded, the individual accepting the wire (presumably the one who committed the said fraud) automatically gets shifted into federal criminal charges since it was done by wire (wire fraud gets a lot more attention from federal authorities). It's actually what I did since I hate writing out checks. Granted I wasn't defrauded, I knew if I was lied to I would have a much firmer leg to stand on.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/1343.html
Just a thought, anyone who knows/understands the law and is intentionally lying will avoid any wire transaction.
If the breeder covers themselves in the contact, you would have a very hard time in court… I guess that was my only point along with, why would you even want to deal with someone that you are already thinking about what if I want to sue them....
That is the only health issue listed.
Along with Bella's tummy troubles… And the fact that the dog they use as a sire was sold at an auction and note what the person says about this breeder... and even worse that they sell to pet stores....
And visit this thread also
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=605
That is the only health issue listed.
Not true, she (Bella) has tummy troubles if you go back to all the threads started by her…
And fixing patellas can (especially in Califoria) cost 2 to 3,000.00 for the surgery.
I cant seem to find the posts about the Tummy troubles, I'll have a more detailed look in the morning.
And I will be mentioning the patella issue to the Vet on Monday.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=4739
It is obvious that you made your decision to support this BYB and in my opinion 1/2 a step from a Puppy Miller since they sell to pets stores… so I wish you the best
I have just finished reading these posts and want to say I hope things work out for you. I wish I had understood more when I first posted here. They tried to warn me about my zoe but I didnt understand how it all worked and was sure they were talking about another dog. There are so many zoe/zoeys. I asked the breeder about fanconi but didnt know how to look up the testing. This forum even led me to the sight but it was confusing and I didnt find anything so figured again it couldnt be her. So we went to pick up our puppy met the breeder and she looked me in the eye and talked with us for a couple of hours getting to know my family, my 9 yr old daughter then handed over this puppy. She is beautiful, loving and so full of Basenji mischief and she brings joy to our lives daily. Everyday I love her more. My Zoe was tested before I got her and she is positive infected fanconi. So with all the good I have to worry about when this will happen. She is only just over 1 yr and I would never think of putting her down I also dont fully know what I'm in for. I just know I will do the best I can and that I dont wish this mar on anyones happiness with their new baby.
I thank Tanza and Ivoss for trying to warm me. Having got Zoe and fallen so under her spell I cant imagine having another dog but maybe if I had known before who knows. I just wanted you to know my story.
Forever Amber.. Thank you for posting your story here…. and sharing with the group what happened with you.... and that is the problem with any health concern... you just never know.... the more you can reduce the odds, the more that you will have all the time to share with your family companion. While no one, not ever responsible breeders can say without a doubt that their puppies will never have problems... cause we can't... however.. we can do the best we can before breeding to reduce the odds. Especially with something like Fanconi and other health concerns that can be seen in different pedigrees. But if breeders are not testing, no one knows.. and in the end it is the pup that suffers the result. But at least with a responsible breeder, they are in it for the long haul... and if your pup develops problems, responsible breeders are there to support you.. not just grab the money and run....
It is beyond criminal what happened to Forever Amber... as that breeder did test and did know, but decided not to tell the prospective buyer... that is way beyond horrible, IMO.... they reduced the price and got them to "buy" into getting that pup..
Forever Amber, glad that you are here... and fingers crossed for the future that Zoe stays healthly for a very long time.... by the way, how is her tail problem?
Her tail is all curled and she is back to normal but she is going to the vet anyway on friday. I printed out the information on fanconi for the vet that was so conveniently on this thread just to be sure he understands. I have been going to this vet since I came to PA 16 yrs ago so I'm sure he will help me out as much as possible. I'm still hoping I will be lucky with zoe but it will always be my biggest worry for all of her life.
