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Looking for red and white male
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Rita Jean are we now equating dogs with people? While I do not believe in cruelty and certainly love animals I do make that separation. If something happens to me, I have other members of my family that will take care of me or see to it I will be taken care of.
Not to make light of anything but people do commit suicide every day, so there are some that make that choice. We have a doctor in the US that has assisted people who are chronic pain or have a life ending disease assist others in taking their lives. It does not make it right or legal but people make the decision to do it.
I have yet to see a dog that is intent on committing suicide or that has actively sought assistance to do so.
Dogs are just not in the same situation. Take the humans out of the picture and take a look at what would normally happen in the wild in a pack. It may not be pretty and in many eyes it may not be fair, but it is reality. The other animals do not rally around to to take care of a sick or injured animal, and it most cases they will drive it off or kill it.
It is only humans who have tried to change the natural course of mother nature. Humans are the ones that have affected the balance in the eco system and food chain. Many times, Humans create more problems in nature than good. Do you really believe in the Basenji's were left to their own devices in the wild, that Fanconi dogs would survive? What would happen to the breed and Fanconi if it had just been left alone?
As a human I do have some choices. I can make the decision to either accept or refuse treatment. Dogs, do not have that same option. As a human, I can leave a living will with orders not to resuscitate me under certain conditions. Again Dogs do not have that option. With my consent, I can choose to donate a kidney to another human being to possibly extend or save their life. Dogs do not have that option.
I can understand people that would like to humanize dogs, but again the harsh reality is that Dogs are not human. It does not mean that we should not have empathy for them or treat them with proper care. As humans we do need to exercise good judgment on what constitutes proper care and what is best for the animal involved in the long run.
Jason
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Does fanconi exist in the wild b's? Is there any research on that? I am curious now, since it was mentioned in the last post..
It is proven, in other breeds that we, the people, through breeding for certain traits, have developed other not positive traits in some breeds, again not in b's but other breeds in general..makes you wonder.. -
Re test strips. I just saw some in Costco yesterday.
So Costco in Wa does have them. -
Jason as the world goes on each day as they say to each there own and thank God that each of us are not the same and see things in a different light.
Rita Jean
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Good on you dcmclcm4, you are an angel on earth to take care of those dogs so well.
In a world were so many bad things happen its great to read about people like you. -
Does fanconi exist in the wild b's? Is there any research on that? I am curious now, since it was mentioned in the last post..
It is proven, in other breeds that we, the people, through breeding for certain traits, have developed other not positive traits in some breeds, again not in b's but other breeds in general..makes you wonder..Obviously since Fanconi can be traced back to the org imports that were brought from Africa and we know it is genetic, it would have had to exist in the wild…. Remember that in the wild, it is natual selection, only the strong survive... so that the ones that would have, might have come down with Fanconi died off and were never bred (in a pack selection, not human breeding selection) Fanconi did not happen due to breeding traits... again it is genetic.
And IMO.... while many can give and do give pills to animals with success... there are that many more that would never be able to... I know this for a fact, as my better half couldn't give a pill to an animal if his life depended on it... period.... and then to have to force 16 to 30 some pills down a dog a day.... well again.. depends on the person
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It is difficult to know exactly if Fanconi was a problem in the Native population for several reasons. One is that it took the breed fancy a while to realize what Fanconi was. Early in the breed history Fanconi was often misdiagnosed. So by the time it was recognized as an issue, people weren't going to Africa to get new imports so there was no real discussion with the Natives about the issue. Another thing that complicates it is that Fanconi is a late onset disease so the dogs may not have lived long enough to be symptomatic.
It is most probable that Fanconi existed in the Native population of basenjis in Africa and was brought over in the original imports.
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@Rita:
Jason as the world goes on each day as they say to each there own and thank God that each of us are not the same and see things in a different light.
Rita Jean
Rita, I could not agree with you more. Preserving life at all costs is certainly a double edged sword.
Jason
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(OT)…Jason, thank you for your post. Even when you post a dissenting opinion you're a gentleman about it and take the replies in stride.
The give and take of an educated adult discussion is what makes this forum great. Thank you for your input.
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This place is great for getting all views expressed and listened to.
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Thanks for the info on whether fanconi exited/exits in the native packs..I really didn't know (haven't done my homework), but now I have a better idea..
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Obviously since Fanconi can be traced back to the org imports that were brought from Africa and we know it is genetic, it would have had to exist in the wild…. Remember that in the wild, it is natual selection, only the strong survive... so that the ones that would have, might have come down with Fanconi died off and were never bred (in a pack selection, not human breeding selection) Fanconi did not happen due to breeding traits... again it is genetic.
And IMO.... while many can give and do give pills to animals with success... there are that many more that would never be able to... I know this for a fact, as my better half couldn't give a pill to an animal if his life depended on it... period.... and then to have to force 16 to 30 some pills down a dog a day.... well again.. depends on the person
After giving this some thought and discussion with Miranda, along with her background in molecular biology, we both feel that the only way eradicate Fanconi from the breed is by controlled breeding period. Since controlled breeding does not exist in the wild, it is our view that Fanconi will never be eradicated from the breed. In the domestic population, not everyone that breeds practices controlled breeding, so the breed will never be free from Fanconi. From we understand the only way to take any gene out of the breeding pool is to remove from that pool, any animal carrying that gene.
We would appreciate anyone who can point out any other possibilities in regard to the solution of the Fanconi problem.
Jason and Miranda
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Understanding however that breeding carriers to clear is the option that allows to include the widest genetic diversity. Breeding only clear to clear reduces the diversity in the population - shade of what happend to the breed during some of the other health concerns like HA, PRA and Malabsorbtion. Hopefully we learned that throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the most effective way of keeping valuable traits while eliminating health concerns.
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Understanding however that breeding carriers to clear is the option that allows to include the widest genetic diversity. Breeding only clear to clear reduces the diversity in the population - shade of what happend to the breed during some of the other health concerns like HA, PRA and Malabsorbtion. Hopefully we learned that throwing the baby out with the bath water is not the most effective way of keeping valuable traits while eliminating health concerns.
+1…I could not agree with you more!
