Nice, they are about in a few different adverts, I spot them every now and again.
STILL at the petstore!
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Did you tell them at the pet store that you also had a basenji and that they are not listed in the 'rare breed' section? I would push it for all I could.
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Maybe along with pushing that they are not a rare breed, perhaps they will knock the price down if you argue that since the puppy IS from a puppy mill and that those types of "breeders" do not breed for good health, that for the health of the dog you're going to have to do fanconi testing, etc.
I heard from a friend the other day that she say a basenji puppy not too long ago in Ann Arbor at a Petland store and they were asking $1,400 but that they would let it go to her for $1,200!
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Dash started out at $1700 for the same reason. We got him for $700. You could always tell them that when they are willing to come down to a reasonable price you will take him. At that time he had had all his shots as well.
We still visit the petstore that we got Dash from and we asked the last time if they have had any B's. They replied they can "order" them but they are not brought in unless there is interest. So the fact that he has been there as long as he has may be incentive enough not to get more.
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Maybe if you talk to the store manager and ask about health issues - is he tested for fanconi's, have his eyes been tested, his patela, his thyroid, etc etc etc - maybe the manager will get the hint and really drop the price.
But others are right - no matter what price you pay the store will continue to get more. -
And you can tell them that you can get a well bred, well socialized, health tested Basenji from a responsible breeder for that, why you pay that for a pup from a puppy mill that is untested, unsocialized, and not well bred?
It really floors me the prices that they try and get for puppies (and usually do) when for much less you can get a pup from a responsible breeder. I agree that you should tell them they are not a "rare" breed…..
Since he has been there this long and has already had price reduced, I would not think they will get that breed again anytime soon... thank goodness....
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This is exactly how we ended up with Zahra, I am too much of a bleeding heart and couldn't take seeing her in that pet store a month later. She started out at $1395 and we got her for $900.
Right now, I'm a college student (Don't worry- totally able to care for Shango, he's quite a happy B!) so 900 is still ASTRONOMICAL for me to afford.
But the poor guy's been there for quite some time. And my love for the breed and the way my heart breaks has me visiting him all the time now to make sure he knows he's loved. Those stupid petstores and those stupid cages…I just wish I could rescue him. I know I'd give him a great, loving home with a great, loving big brother.
Donations anyone? ;-P
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Pet stores typically charge 5 times the price they paid for the pup in order to make a profit. With an original price of $1,399, this means they paid about $280 for him from the broker. They also had to pay for shipping and vet care so they may have $350-400 invested in him. If you really want the pup, wait until his price drops below the store's invested price so they lose money. Be warned though that while puppies raised in pet stores may be well socialized with people, they lack other critical socialization skills. Most puppies have never seen sunshine or rain. Most have never felt grass or carpet under their feet. Most have never gone up and down stairs. Most have never worn a collar or leash. Puppies over 16 weeks usually have a harder time adjusting to things they have never been exposed to and this presents complications. Then there is the housetraining issue. Puppies grow up learning to soil their cage so getting them to be clean in a crate is a challenge. The pups are not used to the outdoors so getting them to relieve themselves in a potentially scary place is difficult. I'm talking about older pups, not 8 week olds.
Forget about asking about health testing. The broker made a profit selling the pup to the pet store at $280. The "breeder" made a profit selling the pup to the broker for $200 or less. Think about it.
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On the other hand, its not his fault he is a pet store dog, and he needs a home too
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Though it is not his fault that he is in the situation, if the pet store turns a profit on him meaning selling him for anything more than $350-400 then they will just continue to bring in more and so the puppy mill cycle continues. Puppy mills and pet stores continue to do business because people are buying their dogs even knowing they are from a mill but justifying the purchase by saying, "I was saving the dog", "It's not his fault, if I didn't buy him think what could have happened". It doesn't matter to them why you buy the bottom line is if they made a profit they will continue to do it. The dam and sire of that puppy that was purchased will continue to live in mill conditions with limited human contact, and limited physical and mental stimulation.
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But what happens to the pup if it is never sold? Quite the dilemma.
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I agree it is definatley a dilemma only the purchaser can decide, but it is nice to have so many opinions to help make the decision.
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I'm sorry but I just can't agree with these "responsible breeders" who think its better to leave a puppy in the store so he can be put to sleep in a month.
If you get a puppy from a pet store you are rescuing him. Not getting him isn't going to stop irresponsible breeders from doing what they've done for decades. If you really think that a dog with champion bloodlines will suit you better go for it, but that dog doesn't have a choice and neither do the other millions in pet stores right now. Saying you won't get him because he's from a mill won't change anything.
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I'm sorry but I just can't agree with these "responsible breeders" who think its better to leave a puppy in the store so he can be put to sleep in a month.
If you get a puppy from a pet store you are rescuing him. Not getting him isn't going to stop irresponsible breeders from doing what they've done for decades. If you really think that a dog with champion bloodlines will suit you better go for it, but that dog doesn't have a choice and neither do the other millions in pet stores right now. Saying you won't get him because he's from a mill won't change anything.
I concur, totally. A dog has to be rescued, then rescue the dog. Regardless of where it came from. Its better that a basenji savvy person buy this pup rather then someone with no experience with this breed buying this pup and giving up on him. Most likely the pup will end up in a pound.
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Actually, continuing to buy puppy mill dogs will keep perpetuating the cycle. Unless the store does not make money on that sale they will continue to buy puppies from mills to sell to anyone willing to shell out the money for the dog. It is basic economics, if there is no demand then there will be no supply. The suppliers do not care about what your reason for lining their pockets are just that they get their money. If they can not turn a profit then they will not do it.
If the dog can be obtained for cost so that profit is not made then great but if not, it only condemns future puppies to the same fate or worse.
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Our local pet store down the street that sold pups went out of business last month. Not sure what happened to all the resident puppies :(, but I was really happy to see it go! Last time I was in New Mexico, they had a super cool pet store that had all rescue (real rescues!!) dogs for sale
Most were a year or older and people were loving them! Such a better situation! Wish it was the norm. -
There will always be puppy buyers. When Breeders don't return your call or email, the easiest way to attain your puppy is to go to a pet store. So there will always be buyers out there for all breeds. I don't see this matter solved anytime soon. And letting a puppy who had no choice suffer isn't right. Owning a puppymill isn't against the law, so untill the government or ppl of power do something about it this will continue regardless if we like it or not.
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That is so right… the people that sell these pups could not care less why you paid such an outragous price... and claim "rescue".... for the pups own good.... by not buying from a pet store or a BYB... they will think carefully the next time they "stock" the store with puppies.. or decide to bred a litter.
In the past two years, many puppy millers got out of the Basenji breeding business and sold their breeding stock at auction...why... because they couldn't make money....
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There will always be puppy buyers. When Breeders don't return your call or email, the easiest way to attain your puppy is to go to a pet store. So there will always be buyers out there for all breeds. I don't see this matter solved anytime soon. And letting a puppy who had no choice suffer isn't right. Owning a puppymill isn't against the law, so untill the government or ppl of power do something about it this will continue regardless if we like it or not.
I totally disagree with you… and while you are correct that some breeders do not return calls, this is not particularly the norm... and to say this is the easy way... well, yes... that is maybe the case, but also it leads to the fact that the breed was not researched before purchasing to understand health concerns... and in the case of puppies from a puppy mill.... it is for sure NOT "you get what you pay for"... as for those prices, you would think you are getting a health pet... and many times that is not the case.
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I'm in no way shape or form defending these puppy mills. But I do feel that it is wrong for that puppy at the pet store to suffer. He should be running in the backyard like all our B's do.
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Nicholas, while what you say is true, for those of us who have had personal experience with puppy mills know what is behind the dogs they breed. You have a puppy that came from extensively health tested dogs, where temperment was considered, where the health of the puppy and sire and dam were considered. Puppy mill breeders do not care. There are puppy mills all over-Quebec (sorry) is considered the puppy mill of Canada. There is one puppy mill that has over 200 dogs where these people cannot be touched yet because the law, for the moment, is on their side. If you have ever saw a puppy mill in action, your stomach would definitely turn. Even hard core people who are used to this sort of stuff have issues with it.
Let's look at it this way, they buy a bitch and a sire-we'll say $800 each, there is $1600. They start breeding at (we'll say to be fair) two years old. (Many breed first season) They have 3 puppies in that litter. The second litter they have 5 puppies. If they sell these puppies at (Robyn's estimate) $300 each, the first litter gave them $900, the second litter gave them $1500. They have now made a profit within two years-everything after that is pure profit. As you know I always return e-mails and phone calls. I also follow up on those that have inquired to see if they found anything and to talk further with them to make sure they know what they are getting into. Money for a true breeder (IMO) is not a must-I turned down a woman because she thought she could pay me whatever she wanted and receive a puppy! NOT! The more you perpetuate these puppy mills, they more they breed. The people on this forum are not saying do not save the puppy, they are saying to try to get it at a price that will deter the puppy mill and the pet store from getting more.
We have a rescue right now that came back. She's definitely a puppy mill dog. She has personality issues, but she also has health issues that we have to delve into further. So far we have about $600 in vet bills so far. This is her second round back by the way. She's also only 4 years old.
All I'm saying is there is no win-win situation. It's all win-lose. If you leave the puppy there, chances are he will be returned to the puppy mill or euthanized. If you take the puppy, at the price they are asking, you help the puppy mill in effect, but help the puppy and may put yourself in place for a lifetime of health problems. It is definitely a dilemma and there are no good answers.
