Rare Breed! HUH?

[snorky998]

I was talking to an acquaintance at work the other day and the subject of dogs came up. She asked me what I had and I stated Basenjis. She then inquired about the breed and stated she?d never heard about them before. I just kind of said something like ?they?re not very popular in this area?.more of a rare breed?etc?? one of those pat responses you give after many years of B ownership.

She then proceeded to tell me about how her parents also have a ?rare breed?. They breed and sell Labradoodles. I forgot myself and blurted something about that not being a real breed, just a designer dog from back yard breeders. She got slightly angry and stated that ?they most certainly are a recognized breed, the most up and coming breed, wanted by everyone?. I asked her about AKC registration. Now really on the defensive she stated ?THEY ARE REGISTERED?, then she stormed out as I was asking how the AKC lab owners and poodle owners felt about the ?breed?.

I realize I handled this the wrong way, but this young lady is convinced her parents are breeding a full bred, recognized breed.

Any suggestions on how to handle a situation like this in the future, or links to Lab and/or Poodle sites that explain this better than I can? I?m truly dumbfounded that someone thinks this is an actual breed.

[etzbseder]

Well, there are a lot of newer breeds that are recognized and registrable, so as I am unable to keep up with them all, I would add that Basenjis are a very old breed, that isn't as popular because of their more native traits. Because of where I'm located, I can relate them to the wolf hybrids, even though they're not a real breed, I've found them to be about as popular here as basenjis. They also have quite native traits that happen to be unwanted by most people but loved by their owners.

You could also point out that they aren't bred for specific traits, but bred to keep to their original design. That way you can compare them to the newer and more popular breeds without putting off the other breed, just differences.

[gneigum]

Most people here have never even heard of a basenji. I simply tell them not to feel bad & join the other 5 billion people in the world that haven't heard of them either. And regarding some of the 'newer' breeds, I know there will be folks that love them also. I just feel bad that there are so many in shelters - why would you want to breed more? Our local shelter has a radio announcement that they can't even take in any more. It's really a shame, & the sad fact is that most of those in the shelter are from the 'new' & 'rare' breeds.

G

[Nemo]

There appears to be some multigenerational breeding programs (google australian labradoodle) towards the goal of getting the labradoodle established as an "official" breed. I think the argument could be made that those dogs could be considered as becoming a "breed" if they are working towards a consistent standard. I wouldn't say the same for a 1st or 2nd generation cross of a lab and a poodle. Obviously, don't know what camp your coworkers parents fall into.

[JazzysMom]

Most recognized breeds started as a mix of two or more breeds, so I suppose it's just a matter of time for the labradoodle.

[nomrbddgs]

Labradoodles are not a rare breed. They are a mixed breed dog. Period. Same as a puggle, chin-pom, chi poo, etc. As far as I can determine, these cannot and never should be considered a 'breed'. They are too inconsistent in many things. Height, coat, body type, tail, etc. This is all MO, but, seriously, a rare breed? What purpose, other than human companionship do they serve. What are they being bred for except for human companionship? What group would they go in? Temperments vary as well. What health issues do they have? Poodles themselves have well over 44 consistent problems, add in a labs problems and you have a mix of issues that could really hurt the dog. These 'labradoodles' would have to display consistencies from line to line to even be considered a breed, and that doesn't look like it's going to happen within the next 40 years. There are many breeds that took 100 years or more to be recognized as a breed that were consistent for many more generations that these so-called labradoodles. Sorry, guys, this is all my opinion and I have a real issue with BYB-because really, that's what they are. Breeding for profit. No health testing I bet either.

[wizard]

Yes but that begs the point - how do you handle someone who ignorantly thinks they have a rare, unique, whatever breed? I might just say - well yes, the labradoodle is a new breed, not yet recognized by all the various organisations, and you have a nice one - and then walk away.

[mauigirl]

I will echo something yodeldogs said to me once: Why would you want a labradoodle when there are curly coated retrievers?

[etzbseder]

Yea, a lot of breeds are only around because of cross breeding, but they have established standards for them. i.e. the pug, or about half of the bull dogs are bred mixes from older bull dogs, and whatever had the traits they wanted. I even saw somewhere that french bull dogs can't breed on their own, they NEED to be artificially inseminated. If there becomes a standard for the labradoodle, then they stand a chance for registration ability, 'til then, there's no difference between them and mutts except the name.

[nomrbddgs]

@wizard:

Yes but that begs the point - how do you handle someone who ignorantly thinks they have a rare, unique, whatever breed? I might just say - well yes, the labradoodle is a new breed, not yet recognized by all the various organisations, and you have a nice one - and then walk away.

I have had people say to me that the labradoodle is a new breed and I always reply, what are there standards? What are their unique but similar traits? What is always the same about the breed? What can you tell me that is consistent with your new 'breed'? Invariably, they cannot answer because, again, there is no consistency. There is nothing that is the same within a litter, never mind the designation 'labradoodle'. A mutt is a mutt is a mutt. Not to say they don't fill someone's need. Just that they are not a 'breed'.

[YodelDogs]

Breeding breed "A" with breed "B" does NOT make a new breed! (They are not hybrids either. Don't get me started on that.) The creation of a new breed takes generations of careful breeding and culling until breed traits are consistent. The Alaskan Klee Kai is a good example of how a new breed is developed.

[nomrbddgs]

How how many years did that take?? And they say labradoodle is a breed??phhhhtttt!

[snorky998]

Thanks Norm and others that posted. I wasn't trying to be unkind to the woman but she was really set on 'letting me have it', (ie "they ARE a rare new breed", etc..) I'm sure lab-poodle mixes have been found for many years in kill shelters throughout the US. Just another money making scam artist BYB in my opinion.

(BTW, the punctuation is off in my starting post because I drafted the post at work in microsoft word, then did a copy/paste to the forums when I got home. All forums, discussion groups, video sites, etc are blocked at work. Sorry!!)

[agilebasenji]

Just because they are popular, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Remember the Pet Rocks? (okay, probably not a proper, peacemaking response) Sometimes the best you can do is agree to disagree. I'd be tempted to ask about health testing. After all, that is something that all good breeders do.

[tanza]

@agilebasenji:

Just because they are popular, doesn't mean it's a good idea. Remember the Pet Rocks? (okay, probably not a proper, peacemaking response) Sometimes the best you can do is agree to disagree. I'd be tempted to ask about health testing. After all, that is something that all good breeders do.

Good response… and as already said, sometimes you just can't get the point across on what is or is not a responsible breeder... not even in people that are breeding pure bred pups.. as we have seen many times on the Forum... so sometimes you just have to agree to disagree...

I like the idea about asking about health testing... but then you might just get the response, "the vet said they are all healthly"... and then you are back in the same position... sometimes just easier to walk away. However you could tell them that they might want to read on the National Club websites for Poodles and Labs what they think about Labradoodles, I think they have lots to say...

[lvoss]

@tanza:

Good response… and as already said, sometimes you just can't get the point across on what is or is not a responsible breeder... not even in people that are breeding pure bred pups.. as we have seen many times on the Forum... so sometimes you just have to agree to disagree...

This is such a true statement. I had to turn around and walk out of the room at lunch the other day. One of the Ag teachers was showing off her new Mac laptop that "her dog bought". She bred her 10 month old Corgi puppy and sold the pups for $400 each to earn money to buy the computer. She was happily explaining to my other co-workers how she and her mom each got bitch puppies so they could earn some extra money. UGH!

My co-workers didn't really know what to say, they all followed along with my pups and know I didn't make any money. On the other hand, they seem to make a differentiation between just breeding purebreds and breeding "show dogs". There is a huge education gap out there about what it is to be a responsible breeder and why as a pet owner you want to support responsible breeders.

[etzbseder]

I think that difference is the reason why many other countries in Europe allow dogs many places we do not, and are more strict about overbreeding. I would love to be able to take Medjai with me everywhere. It would be so nice to explain to everyone why, although Medjai is a really nice looking dog, it was imperative that he get neutered. My old roommate even said his aunt filed to be a kennel, so she could have as many dogs as she wants and breeds pit mixes (which I find horrendous).

[YodelDogs]

Oodles of Doodles

[tanza]

Here is another interesting read

http://www.thelabradorclub.com/subpages/show_detail_news.php?nid=3

[jenwilson]

Have you ever heard of a bullador?? I ran into a guy that told me he paid nearly $5,000 for one… a lab mixed with a english bulldog.... he stated that the pregnancy normally has to be helped along (artificial insemination?) and that 10 of the 14 pups were stillborn... that's just crazy and doesn't sound natural.