One other note about chest 'dropping' (and why did dog people start using that term - it sort of conjurs up visions of dog parts falling off in the yard) One the the biggest problems in basenjis fronts right now is those that are too narrow and have a concave area between the front legs. I'm NOT advocating a front like a bull terrier but there needs to be some 'fill' there to have a good front but it's not the fill it is the actual structure of the bones in the shoulder and upper arm that - if not correct- actally pull the 'front' too far forward. A quick visual scan from the side - if the deepest part of the brisket is well behind the legs - the front is too far forward. We need to pay attention to the actual shoulder structure to make sure we are not continuing to double up on dogs with a short upper arm. That limits front reach, and creates a not efficient side gait. So go catch your dogs and do a quick check - measure from the top of the wither to the point of shoulder (the most prominant bone in the chest.) then from that point to the point of the elbow. They should be the same. if they are not - stand up your dog and put your hand between the front legs - if you hand is IN FRONT OF THE FRONT LEGS - great - if your hand is between the front legs the front on your dog is too far foward.
More than you ever wanted to know probably - LOL
Tayda's test strip
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Thank you, I am glad you made me aware of this. I guess I was being an optimist… My heart goes out to Tayda and Mom.:( I finally got Bella to pee in a saucer for me. She looked back at me like "what the heck, Mom" why you want that stuff! (I guess I wasn't sneaky enough). Thank God the color didn't change for Bella. I was worried since this was the first time I did the test (the vet did the first two before she was almost three years old). Tayda really hit home for me and woke me up about Fanconi, previously it was only in the back of my mind... Now she has me fighting tears.
You should consider doing the DNA test then you will know if you have to continue to strip test… and if she did come back as affected, you can be more diligent in testing more often....
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Thank you, I am glad you made me aware of this. I guess I was being an optimist… My heart goes out to Tayda and Mom.:( I finally got Bella to pee in a saucer for me. She looked back at me like "what the heck, Mom" why you want that stuff! (I guess I wasn't sneaky enough). Thank God the color didn't change for Bella. I was worried since this was the first time I did the test (the vet did the first two before she was almost three years old). Tayda really hit home for me and woke me up about Fanconi, previously it was only in the back of my mind... Now she has me fighting tears.
You know, you can just put the stick in her urine stream as she goes. It's got to be easier than getting her to pee in a saucer.
or did I miss part of the story?
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Just got this from Tayda….
The one on the left is the unused one.
I am so sorry to see that.
It's my greatest fear as I test Jazzy….I watch that strip with my breath held every time, just waiting for the day that I hope never comes. -
Spilling sugar can be diabetes, too, not sure which I would rather a dog have. If the blood sugar is high and sugar is spilling into the urine, that is diabetes. If the blood sugar is normal, but there is sugar in the urine, that is Fanconi. For years, many vets did not want to follow the Gonto protocol as he is not a vet, but a few years ago it was published in a vet journal so should bear more weight with them. Good luck to you. I know of dogs that have lived well over 10 years with Fanconi, on the protocol. It can be a manageable chronic illness if the dog does well on it, so don't despair yet!
(((Hugs))), Anne
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So sorry to hear about the test strip result.. I can understand that you have a hard time sleeping..:(
You're in my thoughts.
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so i have an appointment on wednesday with an internist who supposedly has experience with kidney issues. the lady i spoke to on the phone seemed to think that he would want to do a urinanalysis first to rule out UTI or something else. i said over and over that my goal for the appointment was to get her venous blood gas panel done and can he do that… she of course wouldn't commit to anything over the phone....
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incidentally, i contacted the breeder in Rocky Hill, Kokopelli Basenjis to get a recommendation for a basenji saavy vet in the area. she of course knows all about fanconi and the protocol and offered to call her vet and explain the situation to make sure that he was aware that the blood gases were the vital next step. since i already have the appointment on wednesday, im going to keep it, but i'll probably call monday to make a back up appointment with her vet…
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I'm so sorry to hear about Tayda's test strip.
Another thought…do you have any critical care vets in your area. We have one practice that deals with only cancer, kidney, and other special cases. They aren't a regular practice, only disease diagnosis and treatment.
I know 2 hrs is a bit of a drive, but I would seriously consider going to Angell or Tufts at least for the initial diagnosis...especially since it doesn't sound like any of these vets have any idea about even the blood gas aspect. I have so many friends who sing the praises of Angell...and Tufts.
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I'm so sorry to hear about Tayda's test strip.
Another thought…do you have any critical care vets in your area. We have one practice that deals with only cancer, kidney, and other special cases. They aren't a regular practice, only disease diagnosis and treatment.
I know 2 hrs is a bit of a drive, but I would seriously consider going to Angell or Tufts at least for the initial diagnosis...especially since it doesn't sound like any of these vets have any idea about even the blood gas aspect. I have so many friends who sing the praises of Angell...and Tufts.
Diagnosis, if Fanconi, is pretty straight forward… if they are spilling sugar in their urine, but not high blood sugar in bloodwork, then it is Fanconi... Blood gases are then needed to determine the course of treatment using the protocol. Again, I would take the protocol before hand to the Vet you were seeing on Wednesday. I would also continue to strip test daily. As was already stated they can spill one day and not the next when you catch it early. Happened to a good friend of mine with his dog... he was positive for sugar in the urine one day and then the next 2, none, the following day, he positive for sugar in the urine again. That said, a full blood panel is needed also along with the blood gases.
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The emergency care place I called said they had an I-Stat machine, but that they didn't have the cartridge needed to do the blood gasses.
I'm also hearing from these vet techs or whoever answers the phone at the office that it could be just a urinary tract infection. I am trying to push that it is 99% likely to be Fanconi, and i want the urinanalysis, blood work, and blood gasses all in one shot to confirm/deny that…. I really don't want to waste an office visit on them putzing around not doing the tests that I need to figure out Tayda's treatment plan.
The last 3 days Tayda's strips have turned green...
I'm going to keep calling around tomorrow for another vet... I do have an appointment on wednesday with this highly recommended internist, but it's at his satellite site, which Im not sure if they have the machine to do the blood gasses. They said that if needed, he could get me in at the main office the next day or something, but Id rather just find somewhere to have it all done at once.
I am considering going out to Tufts or Angell... but the only thing is Ill have to get her blood gases done every few months, right? and I'd rather it all be done w/ the same doc, on the same machine (and preferably closer to my house) so I don't have to worry about the different machines' calibrations throwing off the interpretation of her values. I've already got an excel spreadsheet set up to track her values... (can you tell I'm an engineer?) lol
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Keep calling vets-but try asking for the vet himself. I have a problem with the secretary at the vets office I go to, but when I talk to the vet himself, it suddenly seems to be less of an issue. He will work with me, the secretary has put me into the "pet people" column. She's told me twice to go elsewhere, but the vets are actually great. Again, try to talk directly to the vet.
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Blood gases once on the protocol is every 6 months… as I understand it. And you might want to join the Yahoo Fanconi list for people with Fanconi Affected Basenjis (and others breeds too). And yes, it is nice to be able to have everything done at the same place if possible... Urinary infections are common to Fanconi affected dogs, so would not be surprising if she did have one... Venous blood gas studies can verify an electrolyte imbalance consistent with Fanconi syndrome. And since you are the customer, then the office/Vet should do what you ask to be done.
When was the last time before this that you strip tested? And just being curious, how come you didn't do the DNA test for her? -
The last time she was strip tested was probably a year ago when Kelli was dog sitting them…. and she was clear then... I know... I know, I should have kept up with it. I also have been MEANING to order the test kit to send her sample to be DNA tested, and just hadn't done it yet. I know... awful.
I'm really regretting it now. She had two "accidents" in the house last week(which she never does), and that is what prompted me to go get a bottle of the strips...I looked on the zandebasenjis site and saw that Tayda has 3 littermates, 2 of which have been tested as carriers. Her parents weren't tested...
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The last time she was strip tested was probably a year ago when Kelli was dog sitting them…. and she was clear then... I know... I know, I should have kept up with it. I also have been MEANING to order the test kit to send her sample to be DNA tested, and just hadn't done it yet. I know... awful.
I'm really regretting it now. She had two "accidents" in the house last week(which she never does), and that is what prompted me to go get a bottle of the strips...I looked on the zandebasenjis site and saw that Tayda has 3 littermates, 2 of which have been tested as carriers. Her parents weren't tested...
Yes, I saw that too about her sire and dam, but then again, if he is not using them for breeding, not surprising that they are not tested considering their age… but seeing that she has two littermates that are carriers and knowing the pedigree, not really a total shock that she would be a carrier or affected.
And regardless now you know that something is going on and can get the bloodwork/blood gases done and get her on the protocol... fingers crossed that she does well on the protocol
You know, I am also really surprised that Kelli has not tested Cleo.
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I am so sorry that you have this test strip changing color.
But with the new protocal, you can have a long lived b.
Hugs and hugs.
Do keep us updated on what the vets say. -
Our thoughts are with you. We'll pray you can get to a vet that can do the proper tests & help you.
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I have an appointment at noon today to get Tayda in for tests. I called back the place that originally said that they couldn't take the blood and talked to someone else, and apparently, it is not a problem and I should be able to walk out with the results I need. I'll be back with news!
meanwhile, I heard from the breeder who has Tayda's mother… it seems that she (the mother) has been affected and on the protocol for 5 years and is doing well. While its good to hear she's doing well, its NOT good to hear that she was affected and on the protocol BEFORE I got Tayda and her breeder never mentioned it to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I'm still an idiot for not strip testing myself until now, but I really think he should have told me! I remember asking him about Fanconi when we were first discussing my getting a dog from him and he assured me his lines were clear. Of course, I didn't know enough back then to question it more or look into it myself. ACK!:mad:
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I have an appointment at noon today to get Tayda in for tests. I called back the place that originally said that they couldn't take the blood and talked to someone else, and apparently, it is not a problem and I should be able to walk out with the results I need. I'll be back with news!
meanwhile, I heard from the breeder who has Tayda's mother… it seems that she (the mother) has been affected and on the protocol for 5 years and is doing well. While its good to hear she's doing well, its NOT good to hear that she was affected and on the protocol BEFORE I got Tayda and her breeder never mentioned it to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know I'm still an idiot for not strip testing myself until now, but I really think he should have told me! I remember asking him about Fanconi when we were first discussing my getting a dog from him and he assured me his lines were clear. Of course, I didn't know enough back then to question it more or look into it myself. ACK!:mad:
While we didn't have the test back then (when you got Tayda) so other then what the breeder tells you, there is/was nothing you could do to check, I agree that was uncalled for him not tell you the dam was spilling and certainly should have. I remember my first litter, Maggii's Dam started spilling 3 days before she was due to have her puppies. I made sure that anyone that was interested in a puppy knew up front that while do date, Maggii was stripping clear, her Dam did have Fanconi. I was lucky that Maggii never spilled nor did any of her pups. That is what makes the test so valuable now and the ability to see for yourself that the DNA Fanconi tests were done.
Good luck with the tests and let us know how it goes
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Back from the vet! I don't have the urinanalysis or blood chemistry results yet, but I do have the blood gas results… it seems her pH is 7.32 - basically normal! and her pC02 level is slightly low at 42.9 (normal range being 45-47) There is a line that says "Glu 96 mg/dL" seems like that would be glucose and the normal range is 70-138 mg/dL from previous testing I had done.
So if it is fanconi, it seems like she would be on the lowest dosage of bicarbs - which i hope means we caught it early.
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btw i sent all the results to Dr. Gonto directly since the vet didn't know anything about basenjis or fanconi…
