I agree with Lisa… while your list can be helpful, puppymillers have learned to look very reputable making it much harder to look at the website to determine. The bottom line is, no matter if they sell one breed or more, they can be a puppymill. And there are certainly some very legit responsible breeders with 2 or even 4 breeds! My entry into dog breeding/showing was a woman who had English bulldogs, her daughter had aghans and setters. If they don't have pedigrees and health testing info on the web page, I'd run. If they have it and you check OFA and find they falsified, or only maybe the current or some of their dogs have testing.. run. The rest they can fake or pretend but generations of health clearances generally aren't part of a puppymill.
Pet Store Puppies - Problem
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I think you got a store credit for the price of the dog when you returned the dog.
I want "store credit" for a remote or something, not a life. And then what happens to the "returned" dog? The thought gives me chills. Even at the shelter, we get people who want to return a dog a get a refund. For why? Two of the guys had the dogs run away on them. Another one he just doesn't want the dog anymore. And now you want a refund from us because you can't take care of the dog? You just going to return your kids to the hospital when they don't listen or run away or you "just don't want them"? And then demand a refund from the doctor.
Sorry about that. I'm a little sore because we got kicked out of a Petsmart where we were doing adoptions because the Petland across the way was selling puppymill puppies and "we were taking their business. And they're an established company there and not just some non-profit."
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Sorry about that. I'm a little sore because we got kicked out of a Petsmart where we were doing adoptions because the Petland across the way was selling puppymill puppies and "we were taking their business. And they're an established company there and not just some non-profit."
I don't quite understand this . . . Everyone has business taking care of business that other's do not. So why the big uproar over an adoption "across the street" (not advocating puppy millers)!?! Different story comletely…Just goes to show, again many people revolve without "common sense"!! This is a "sticky topic" so to speak.
I will never forget my earlier years when I've rescued and found homes of many pets to their owners. I knew that dogs wondering along the railways were someones pets. They were all (usually) intact male dogs. Once, I found out that (2) dogs that I happily reunited with their owners, subsequently deceased to heat exhaustion. The owners killed their dogs by not allowing relief! Today, I'm haunted by that reality. Many people don't think of a dog as a pet/family member. I am a pet friendly/family thinking person. I don't get any other thoughts. I think that puppy millers and pet stores don't have any more regard to the lives they sell, but for the profit they make.
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Did the petstore that you bought your puppy from tell you about the genetically inherited diseases in the breed? Did they tell you that a responsible breeder tests for these diseases and makes their breeding decisions based on the results? Did the petstore tell you that the diseases in basenjis are mostly late onset so your health garuntees will be long expired before you dog shows any symptoms?
Ummm…yes, yes, and yes.
I knew what Fanconi was, but my wife didn't. The pet store owner was adamant that we both know about that and went into detail on it. They showed us the AKC papers and the lineage of the dog, where they got it, the phone number and address of the breeder, their names, etc. Finally, yes, they did talk about how most diseases will now show up until after we've had the dog for some time. There were no health "guarantees" with this purchase.
Like I said, my experience was nothing like what I've been hearing about on here, and I'm not trying to paint a picture that these guys are saints or anything. It just seemed that my experience seemed to fly in the face of everything I'd known before going in as well as what I'm reading now.
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Showing you names for where they got the dogs and a written pedigree tells you nothing about the health of those dogs. I am glad to hear that they did tell you about the diseases in the breed and that most likely it would be several years before you knew if your dog might be affected but I would not say from the information you have provided that they gave you anything that would allow you to make an assessment of the risk of your puppy. Did the pedigree show OFA numbers? CERF numbers? Strip Test information? Did they tell you the cost of treatment if your dog was later diagnosed with any of the inherited diseases?
Even if they told you about these things, did they also tell you about puppy developmental stages? Did they say how critical socialization, handling, and time with dam and littermates is? Most puppies in the petstore sell best at a time when they really should still be with their dam and siblings learning bite inhibition and proper dog language.
How about if you can not keep the dog at some time in the future? What responsibility is the petstore willing to take? Are they going to take it back and see that it is rehomed? Will it end up in a shelter or rescue? If so will they donate the money to pay for it to be rehomed? That is part of being responsible also. Making sure every puppy you produce has a home for life and being responsible for rehoming it if the home doesn't work out.
I have never seen a petstore that can meet the criteria for Responsible Breeder because they either do not have or will not give full health information for the parents and grandparents of the dogs, they will not take responsibility for adult dogs that are given up when they are no longer wanted, and they can not meet the socialization requirements for best raising puppies. This does not mean that some do not do better than others but they are not and can not meet the requirements for responsible.
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There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.
All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?
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There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.
All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?
Why don't you contact your local Basenji club? They might have information that you can leave at the store for anyone buying the pups…. or maybe one of the members can drop off information about Basenjis...
How much were they selling them for?
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How much were they selling them for?
I just called they are selling them for $965, they were born 8/15/07 and are brother and sister.
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I just called they are selling them for $965, they were born 8/15/07 and are brother and sister.
Gezz… even for California that is high... especially for pet store, puppy mill puppies... makes responsible breeders "cringe".....
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Gezz… even for California that is high... especially for pet store, puppy mill puppies... makes responsible breeders "cringe".....
So, what would be the going rate in California.
From breeders in WA, I think the going rate is in the neighborhood of $900.
I have no idea what a pet store would charge..
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I got my furbaby from the mall and she cost me $1,200 and I am so glad I got her. If I had not been there I would have not gotten to know this breed. I know pet stores are not the place to get a pup, but I didn't know then about puppy mills. The fact remains that I got introduced to this wonderful breed through a pet store and I sure am glad I did.
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I got my furbaby from the mall and she cost me $1,200 and I am so glad I got her. If I had not been there I would have not gotten to know this breed. I know pet stores are not the place to get a pup, but I didn't know then about puppy mills. The fact remains that I got introduced to this wonderful breed through a pet store and I sure am glad I did.
I am glad that you gave your B a great home (and the next comments are meant in general, not direct at you personally), but still each pup sold from a pet store means another will show up….. and it still begs the question that people need to really reseach getting a family companion, people research for a car more then a living animal... it should not be by walking into a pet store and deciding that day to buy a dog....
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There were two Basenji puppies one Red and White and one Tri at the petstore at the mall when I was there today.
All I could think was where are these babies going to end up? Why am I even looking at them? How can I pass Basenji information on to people who might buy them? Is there a flyer for BRAT?
Oh, I feel the same way. I feel so sorry for the puppies in there. But in reality we should be feeling sorrier for the parents of these puppies. No one, hardly, ever thinks about them.
I helped with a BUR run when a puppymill was shut down in MO. The pups were adorable, friendly and playful and young enough to eventually be socialized and a happy member of a family (but who knows about health and temperment–so not saying they are not little victems too).
But the poor momma had lived her whole life never knowing the comfort of a bed, the softness of grass, the fun of running full speed doing the B500, she knew nothing more than the wire cage she had spent her whole life in. She seemed scared of the grass when we took her out for a potty break. I just kept thinking of how spoiled my B boy and how he loves to lay around in my warm bed and chew on his rawhide and how he gets a special treat before bedtime. He has no worries.
Not to take the focus from the puppies, I think petstores should not sell puppies and puppy millers should be shut down...but after seeing poor Lady ;I have a different perspective on petstore puppies that I think many choose to overlook or just dont think about. -
There was a video on CNN about puppy mills. I thought I would add it to this thread. I put the link in the title that is where I got it from if anyone would like to read it.
Virginia: The Next Puppy Mill State?
November 1, 2007
Virginia—a state dotted with historic towns, scenic byways … and horrible puppy mills.
A five-month, undercover investigation by The HSUS revealed a substantial Virginia puppy mill industry that is largely unregulated and often in violation of state and federal laws.
Hidden Cruelty
From large-scale operations with hundreds of dogs living in seemingly endless rows of cages; to small, crowded kennels in trailers, backyards and even basements across Virginia; hundreds of commercial breeders are mass-producing dogs with little or no oversight and few—if any—safeguards for the health and well-being of the animals.
HSUS investigators visited puppy mills of all sizes, as well as pet stores and Virginia-based websites selling dogs. Their discoveries were staggering.
Commercial dog breeders in Virginia number nearly 1,000. And many of these operations churn out puppies in the most deplorable conditions imaginable.
The HSUS
Yorkies in a Va. pet store that buys from unlicensed puppy mills.
Denying Basic NeedsLike many states, Virginia has no kennel inspection program to ensure that dog breeders meet basic standards of animal care. HSUS investigators visited mills and pet stores across the state and found that even the most minimal state laws for adequate care and shelter were ignored.
Investigators found breeding dogs and puppies living in cramped, filthy cages, in urine-soaked trailers and in ramshackle kennels without basic sanitation, clean water, veterinary care or even the most primitive protection from the elements.
How You Can Help
Take the pledge to stop puppy mills.
Learn more and join The HSUS in our work to help stop the systematic abuse of dogs in puppy mills.
Learn more about how to avoid buying a puppy mill dog.
Buying a puppy? Check out our puppy buyers guide.
Want to adopt? Visit Proud 2 Adopt.
Flouting the Law
Some breeders were also breaking federal laws. To sell puppies to pet stores, facilities with more than three breeding females are required to have a license from the United States Department of Agriculture.
In Virginia, only a handful of dog breeders hold a USDA license; many of the unlicensed sell to pet stores, anyway.
Others bypassed pet stores altogether and sold directly to the public though classified ads and the Internet, where breeders are not required to have a license and can operate without any oversight whatsoever.
A Sick Business
All this out-of-control breeding has other consequences. Consumers find the market flooded with sickly puppies. Many buy a puppy who seems healthy, only to find out weeks or months later that their new pet has serious health problems.
And Virginia's puppy mills significantly contribute to the state's pet overpopulation crisis: last year, shelters in Virginia had to euthanize more than 42,000 dogs for lack of homes.
In Bad Company
Unless Virginia does something fast, it is destined to be known as the next puppy mill state. The HSUS urges legislators to require higher standards for breeding kennels within the state, as Virginia's puppy mill problem only accelerates a nation-wide epidemic.
Puppy mills all over the country are producing dogs much like Virginia—under the radar and out of sight. Legislators in all states can help stem this cruelty by requiring large-scale breeders to be licensed, inspected, and held to high standards.
What You Can Do
Meanwhile, The HSUS urges dog lovers everywhere to become part of the solution.
Perform your own inspection of any breeder from whom you are considering buying a pet. Pet stores love to tout that they buy only from "local breeders"—wooing potential spenders into thinking the pups came from a good situation. But "local breeders" can and often are local puppy mills.
Help stamp out the puppy mill trade entirely by choosing to adopt your next pet from a shelter or rescue group instead. There are millions of lovable animals across the country in need of a good home.
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You have to understand…HSUS is NOT the same as the Humane Society or ASPCA. HSUS is code name for PETA. These people are such hypocrites! A couple of years ago, the PETA chapter in Norfolk, VA got caught red-handed for disposing of THOUSANDS of euthanized dog and car carcasses into the dumpsters behind a local Piggly Wiggly supermarket. People thought they were bringing in stray dogs and cats to be rescued. Instead, these animals were systematically put to death.
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I have gone into a petshop and talked to the manager…
this is when they had a basenji for sale.
I wrote up all sort of info re the local basenji club, basenji health info, my contact info...a nice little handout.
I asked the owner if I could leave it with them to give to the new basenji owners.
I was polite, tried to be kind, and cried all the way home from that place.
The new owners did contact me and I did help them with some behavior issues they were having.
I also talked them info having her fixed.
It was not ideal, but it was what I did.
I so wish selling companion animals was not allowed buy these puppymill businesses.
Maybe if the states came up with some type of "lemon" law for these businesses that sell sick/defective dogs??? -
I have gone into a petshop and talked to the manager…
this is when they had a basenji for sale.
I wrote up all sort of info re the local basenji club, basenji health info, my contact info...a nice little handout.
I asked the owner if I could leave it with them to give to the new basenji owners.
I was polite, tried to be kind, and cried all the way home from that place.
The new owners did contact me and I did help them with some behavior issues they were having.
I also talked them info having her fixed.
It was not ideal, but it was what I did.
I so wish selling companion animals was not allowed buy these puppymill businesses.
Maybe if the states came up with some type of "lemon" law for these businesses that sell sick/defective dogs???I did the same thing, but I don't think the packet ever went home with the puppy because about three months after she was purchased the new owners contacted a local breeder because they came across her website. The dog wasn't working out for them, and they needed some help. The breeder took the dog, and she went into the BRAT system. The info that I originally left included information about where to turn for help, and community information out there, and BRAT info…
I do think it is still a worthwhile thing to do if there is a pet store near you selling Basenjis though. Every now and then, you might get an shop owner that will pass the info on, and you might get a puppy owner that uses the info.
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The good news for me is that this place has not had a basenji pup to sell since the one I saw.
But sadly, they always do have puppies to sell. -
The good news for me is that this place has not had a basenji pup to sell since the one I saw.
But sadly, they always do have puppies to sell.Yes, our news was good as well…because that store never had another Basenji puppy (they had to drop her price WAY down to even sell her)..and then a few months after that they closed completely! YAY!
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We are very thankful here in No. Cal that there are very, very few pet stores that sell puppies period….
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I think as more folks become educated, they learn that even if they did buy that "doggie in the window" there are better ways to find a healthy, happy companion animal.
We now have pet food stores that just sell food and supplies…no animals at all.
I hope it comes to that across the country, in our lifetime...
