Oh, I love PB…labs are well, DOGS!
Possible Breeding Questions
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That's the main reason why I am trying to get information now. I started looking for dogs and specifically learning about Basenji's LONG before I decided to get one, and then it was awhile before I got mine. I have at least a year before I would be welcome to breed a dog, because of my need and desire to provide a good environment to the breeding and living for the dogs and puppies. I am researching more now, and will be looking into the dog i plan on getting, before i get her. I also stated that I AM going to do at least fanconni testing BEFORE i breed to make sure the dogs are good representations of what a Basenji should be.
I have a ton of time and am not hurting for money, so i don't see this changing in future. If it does, there is always chance to simply not breed, it's a lot easier to stop plans than start plans.
I am not wondering which color based on puppy color, but based on if there are known problems or traits seen among certain colors. I know that black/whites are the rarest and then Tris, and i wasn't sure if this was because of a problem associated with these colors or not.
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I think you need to do more than just test for fanconi, you need to do hips, eyes, and thyroid at the minimum, and ensure that BOTH dogs have those test
and for color no color has different health issues/problems than the other
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And boy to do it right it does take money…. this is not for the faint of heart... it is a life time commitment to breed Basenjis, or any breed for that matter. Health testing is just part of it and while Fanconi testing is very, very important, there are many others that need to be done. And also knowing and understand health behind your Basenji along with its siblings. And you really have to be honest with the question "What does my Basenji have to offer the breed?" There are many Basenji Show and Performance Champions that are never bred and not every Basenji should be bred. Because it looks like the description is not a good reason to want to breed.
Your boy is far to young to be bred, 1st you can't even have the hips done till he is over 2 for one thing...
As already said, color should be the least of your considerations.
There is no responsible breeder that I know of that has ever made money on breeding a litter, we are lucky to break even.....
Please search the threads on breeding and what makes a responsible breeder.
Go to this link, answer the questions as if you were buying a puppy... do you fit the profile of a responsible breeder?
http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html -
That's the main reason why I am trying to get information now. I started looking for dogs and specifically learning about Basenji's LONG before I decided to get one, and then it was awhile before I got mine. I have at least a year before I would be welcome to breed a dog, because of my need and desire to provide a good environment to the breeding and living for the dogs and puppies. I am researching more now, and will be looking into the dog i plan on getting, before i get her. I also stated that I AM going to do at least fanconni testing BEFORE i breed to make sure the dogs are good representations of what a Basenji should be.
I have a ton of time and am not hurting for money, so i don't see this changing in future. If it does, there is always chance to simply not breed, it's a lot easier to stop plans than start plans.
I am not wondering which color based on puppy color, but based on if there are known problems or traits seen among certain colors. I know that black/whites are the rarest and then Tris, and i wasn't sure if this was because of a problem associated with these colors or not.
The colors are not rare? These are standard colors… we have lots of B&W's right now in No California.. it just depends who is breeding and what they are breeding... as they are not bred for color... there are NO problems associated with basic Basenji colors.
You really need to a mentor, spend years learning before thinking about breeding and the reasons you want to bred... again, because your boy "in your mind" fits the standard, that is not a reason to breed.
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I will be breeding Sugar this year-if and only if-the male I found fits my standards and needs and wants at the end of the year. In the meantime, I still have to have Sugar's hips done-but not only will I have her hips ofa'd I will also have her knees done. I figure the cost for this to be around 300 to have it done by someone I trust. The eyes will also be tested-providing I can find someone who has experience with Basenji eyes to do the testing-Basenji eyes are different from other dogs-the cost? Unsure, but I'm putting away $300 for that too. Fanconi testing about $100 only because I already had the blood drawn already.. And that's just the start. I ended up talking to a lot of people and had 4-5 people giving me their opinions and ideas and evaluations. I also looked at hundreds of dogs-first on-line, then narrowing it down. Then, I had to travel to look at a few dogs that I was most interested in and evaluate how they fit in with what I wanted to achieve. I did not decide to breed Sugar because she fit in with the Basenji standard. I evaluated what I liked about her and what I did not like about her. Then I also talked to bunches of people-including here on the forum and her breeder and others in the same lineage to decide if I wanted to breed her, then I was still up and down about it. Also, I was going to breed her last year, but after talking with others decided for a Basenji this was just too young.
As for problems or traits I find Black B's are the 'thinking B's', the tri's are the trying breeds and if they can get into trouble they will, or will certainly find a way. I find the red's are the most relaxed and laid back. The brindle's are somewhere in-between. Also, temperment can largely be influenced by genetics. Oh, by the way, I have two blacks, and Sugar is a tri.
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Here is another thing to consider…. how difficult it is to keep the two apart if you don't breed and you would not be breeding (at least I hope not) every time she came in season..... and many times the bitches will have a "spring" season after having puppies and you certainly would not want her bred back then... And if you do breed, it is not like you just leave them alone together, so you still keep them separated until she is ready to be bred and separated on the days she is not being bred...
Trust me, it is no picnic for that month they are in season... nor is it quiet... -
To add to that Pat, most B's in season want their own space. Again separation with a captial S. Then you have the up every two hours to check on them and never leaving them alone for a minute for the first few weeks. On top of that, Some Bitches reject the puppies at first and sometimes muzzling the bitches so the puppies can feed is the only option. Also there is the vet evaluation on the bitch as well, and complications can crop up any time!
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To add to that Pat, most B's in season want their own space. Again separation with a captial S. Then you have the up every two hours to check on them and never leaving them alone for a minute for the first few weeks. On top of that, Some Bitches reject the puppies at first and sometimes muzzling the bitches so the puppies can feed is the only option. Also there is the vet evaluation on the bitch as well, and complications can crop up any time!
Exactly right, just go back to the threads from lvoss and her litter that had to be delivered by C-section. Then after the puppies are born you have shots and eye exams before they leave for their new homes (and eye exams by a board certified Ophth)
And as I remember when you were looking for and then got your boy, you were pretty put out by the screening done by responsible breeders. You have to be able to say No, if you don't feel the home is a good "forever" home and you have to know your puppies well enough to be the one that "selects" the pup for its new family, not the other way around.. You need to be able to place the puppy that fits with the family.
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Also, you will want someone you can call on in a pinch to help you with welping, (besides the vet). I'm lucky I have a Basenji Breeder friend who would help me with whelping if I needed it and could be at my house in about 20 minutes. So as you can see, it's not because I necessarily just want to breed because Sugar is on Standard. Every Basenji has flaws, you have to evaluate the flaws and then breed with the objective to better your breed. And not necessarily will the male/female you ever purchase with hopes of breeding turn out properly. Many times, as breeders, we (as a collective group) have purchased a dog or bitch that we have had to neuter/spay because of complications. So if you are thinking of breeding, keep in mind that this will be at least 4 years down the road for you, IF, and that's a big if the dog/bitch turns out properly and is what you want. I know this because of Shadow-I wanted him to be my stud dog. Complications forced me to neuter him and rethink my strategy-which technically put me 4 years behind where I wanted to be at this point. So please think of this as well. I'm not trying to bash you, I just want you to be aware that things rarely go as planned.
As an added note, I still have to come up with a backup if the male I chose is not the right one as time comes closer. And many breeders are aware of this.
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If you think that Medjai is an exemplary example of the breed, then the next step is to try out some venues so that you get to involved in the basenji community and get to see other basenjis and their owners and breeders and your basenji is seen by other basenji owners and breeders. This will give you a chance to research what qualities will be a good match for Medjai and what he has to offer the breed. Start with a fun match if you can find one or perhaps there is someone on this forum in your area that can suggest a show that they will be attending where they can help you out. Or attend a lure trial and give Medjai a chance to practice.
Medjai will need to be at least 2 years old before you can get the health testing that the Basenji Club of America considers to be the minimum recommended health testing: Hips, Eyes, CERF, and Fanconi. So while he is growing up this is a good time to get out there and get to know your local basenji community.
It is important for breeders to be active in the basenji community and see the other basenjis that are out there. It is very easy to become kennel blind, where you see all the great qualities in your own dogs but overlook their faults. Participating in events like coursing, conformation, agility, etc helps to keep us more grounded and see structure in action which is important in evaluating a dog.
Once you have done all of this you can start to think of breeding. Even then you will need to be prepared for the expense and responsibility of breeding a litter. I was told when I first got involved in this breed that anyone who ever considers breeding a litter should first put in time as a rescue volunteer. Once you have helped to place homeless basenjis and see why basenjis end up in need of rescue, and how many need homes, if you still feel there is a compelling reason for you to breed then you might be ready to breed a litter. Having been a rescue volunteer and now as a shelter volunteer, I wholeheartedly agree that anyone who plans to breed a litter should have to do this. Pet overpopulation is a serious problem in this country and will only get better with both owners and breeders taking responsibility for their animals.
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Not to sound mean, but going back through your posts. You dog has had some medical issues, with his leg and digestion. You also said he was only 15 lbs.
What does your boy have to offer the basenji traits, health and temperment?
Again, I am not trying to sound mean. I love my Squiggy, he is sweet and cute, but up to standard- nope. He is thin and a bit to pointy. But I wouldnt trade him for anything. But just because I think he is the best, doesnt mean his genes are good enough to "better the breed".Also, the last time your B got sick you stated that you didnt have the funds to take him to the vet-which is fine because he got better, and I know (if you like most) would have taken him anyway and maxed out a card if it had been serious. But, breeding is SO much more expensive than you can guess.
I say that from experience, not from B's but from sphynx. I thought I had it all figured out before I started breeding. and I did a pretty good job estimating from my mentor, but I still had no idea.
You also need to have the funds sitting there waiting for testing and emergencies.
If you think you can make money from the pups, you really honestly cant- if you do all the correct things a great breeder should. If you dont do thoes things, you should not breed.
Because a good breeder will do all the proper tests, screen the heck out of potential adopters, turn maybe/ok homes down to give the baby to a great home.
Again, I am not trying to sound mean or run you off of the list. I just, from experience with my Sphynx, dont think you have thought this out with your head. But there is no doubt you love your B. Id clone mine if I could, but he is not up to standards as far as AKC, even if he is up to mine. -
I have posted worries about money with the vet, but I am working full time and the only reason those worries were there, was because my parents were so adiment on me having a few grand on the side for personal emergencies and wouldn't let me use it for the dog. I am also getting all of my cusstodial stock settled into my own name, so I basically over the last week came into about 30k to put into my savings account. I figure after testing and everything, the actual breedinng and raising the pups for awhile cost about 3-4 thousand and I am more than willing to spend that.
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But you dog has had some health issues.
And he is kinda small.–-But very cute.
What qualities does he offer? -
But even by your own admission, your boy is not even close to the standard size or weight? Again, what do you think your boy has to offer the breed? Have you had other breeders give you an honest evaluation of him and I am talking about long time breeders that have bred and rasied Basenjis bred for health, temperament and conformation? Breeders that have proven their dogs in the show ring or in a performance venue, not a pure for profit Back Yard Breeder that doesn't even health test and then has the nerve to say "I have no health problems". Have you reseached his pedigree for health concerns, temperament issues, conformation?
You really should join a regional Basenji club, go to shows, do rescue, go to performance events, before you ever even consider breeding. And again I point out, when you were looking for a pup, you were put off by people that asked hard questions about you and your lifestyle, instead you went to a Back Yard Pure for Profit person that would sell to anyone that came along with the cash. Are you prepared to be a responsible breeders, do all the health testing, explain to people about the breed, SCREEN potential homes and ASK the hard questions? Are you prepared to have a contract that says that you will take that pup back for any reason at any age, even if that age is 12+ yrs? Are you prepared to be a responsible breeder and place pups on a spay/neuter contract or be responsible for any puppy that is produced by the pups you place?
These are all the really hard questions that a responsible breeder needs to ask themselves long before breeding. -
It is very hard to be objective about your own dog, esepcially if you are not involved in conformation showing. You need to know how your dog measures up to other dogs. You need to know the standard. You need to know your dog's strenghts AND weaknesses. And if you don't think there's anything to improve about your dog, you definately shouldn't breed him. But, lucky for you, Colorado has a fairly active basenji community AND there is a big dogshow coming up - Feb 15-18 in Denver. Check out Onofrio's website for more information. If you're really serious about being a good gardian of the breed, this is a great place to start. I'd also think seriously about showing your dog. That's a good way to get to know other basenji people, learn about the breed and let other people/breeders/judges/potential buyers see your dog.
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This is true about conformation. I have shown Shadow and Sugar to their Canadian Championship, specialed Sugar, have put Shadow in Rally obedience, started to race, and am currently showing Damisi in conformation. This has enabled me to view LOTS of dogs. Not to mention have been to the Canadian Specialties as well as the American Specialties. So I believe I have a view as to what is out there. This helps tremendously when considering to breed and to what end you want to achieve. If you are thinking about breeding please go to some shows and see what's out there. Like I said, I'm not bashing you at all. My view is any breeder should be breeding to better the breed and not because your dog is on standard or you want puppies, or you have puppy buyers.
Here is a write up on how breeder's choose which dogs to breed. Dr. Tracey Leonard has owned and bred basenji's for 15 years. Actually, she is the one I travel to to have my dogs OFA x-rays done. She knows how to handle basenji's and can get the x-ray done in less than 3 minutes (I swear) with no anesthetic.
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You are 20 yrs old, right? And a new Basenji owner – new to the breed?
You are young and new. Not to knock either - I am old and pretty new to the breed {having only owned a Basenji for three years}. There's no way I'd be ready to become a breeder at this time.
Why not take a few years to get established in a career, learn more about the breed and the breeding process, and THEN plan to breed if you feel it still interests you? You have YEARS ahead to accomplish this goal if it remains something you really want to do.
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Sadly I dont think he cares too much. Hasnt even bothered to respond.
No one on here said anything mean, but he didnt like what he was hearing and is now ignoring it.
Probably will go ahead with it too:( -
i agree with jazzysmom..
im only 19, and i have two basenjis, and i would NEVER consider breeding them right now (even though i can't because rockys fixed and mia will be within the next 6 months) maybe when i get older and are ready for the commitment..
i cant decide on what i want to wear or eat for dinner and change my mind 2915701264730 times.. :p but you cant turn back once your dog gets impregnated.. things get tough.. and your STUCK with it.. you need to think LONG and HARD and be completely sure.. not just that you want puppies but because you want to better the breed..
also, if you work full time who will be there when the puppies are born?
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People need to only read about rescue dogs and how they got to where they are to understand why we are so outspoken about breeding (or as the case may be, not breeding) Believe me it is not and easy decision when you are trying to do it right… it is costly and a labor of love... pure and simple... I bred my first litter only to find 2 days before the pups were born that my bitch's dam had Fanconi... can you image what I felt? Can you understand why we are so against anyone that bred this year without testing? I went forward with a different approach only to get temperaments that I didn't like... I made the hard choice and did not take that line forward other then to collect the males for possible use in the future if I then had a line with excellent temperaments that also prove to "throw" those temperaments... and it was not that they were nasty, but just a bit to strong for my taste...
Understand that every breeder if you are a responsible breeder makes very, very hard choices... and the choice to NOT breed it the worst... and the most difficult... which is why we ask? What does your Basenji have to offer the breed?
