Breeders-Why and What?

[nomrbddgs]

This goes for anyone thinking about breeding-I think that when other breeders make negative comments on your dog it weighs heavily and you start to doubt what you're thinking about-especially when you have such a small membership of people. There are really not that many B's around and to find someone who knows what they are is a big deal. When you start to talk to someone with 20-40 years of breeding experience (even if you only have about 3 people to talk to) you take what they have into consideration more. I don't know if what I am saying is making sense. The people who see Sugar don't seem to like her and think I shouldn't breed her. So I'm starting to ask myself why they don't like her and if I'm right about her or wrong?? Has anyone else ever felt like that??

[lvoss]

I think finding someone who is willing to give you an unbiased opinion can be difficult. There are many people who only tell you the bad things. I am lucky, when I got started there were many people who were willing to give me an honest opinion including the good and the bad about my boy. They were encouraging and supportive as I got started but also honest. There are an awful lot of people who have not had that experience when they got started. It is especially hard when you get a dog from out of the area, some of the local breeders start thinking, "Why didn't they get one of mine?" and some take it further and start belittling that other dog and telling you that if you got one of theirs things would be so much easier. The truth is that no matter how good your first dog is, it is a tough road, you have to pay your dues and there is a steep learning curve.

As for the why and what of breeding, it is a complicated picture. All dogs have strengths and faults. As a breeder you need to be honest about both and have a clear goal for your breeding program.

[tanza]

Great points Lisa…
When I started I had great mentors.. and listened to all they had to say, while they were co-owners on my first two bitches that I bred, they never pushed one way or the other for who to bred too... however that could have been because I really didn't come up with dogs that were "over the top"... ggg... and they were very supportive.... of course they had been in the breed for over 35 yrs...

People that typically "knock" your dogs are the ones you "didn't" buy from... IMO... and so you have to take their comments and try to slice and dice them for what they are worth.... And yes you need a goal for your breeding program... AND if you go one way, see that it doesn't work you have to be honest enough with yourself about your dogs to start over if need be.... Remember, not many people are comfortable about saying negative things about your dogs..... and your dogs faults....

[Quercus]

You also have to remember that you purchased dogs from a different region than you live, and there may be some differences in type that the local breeders just don't prefer.

It is important whether they say "we just don't like her" or if they give you specific things that they would want to improve.

Like Lisa, and Pat, I was blessed to be surrounded by people who would point out nice things about my first dogs (actually all my dogs)…. if they didn't have anything nice to say, they didn't say anything ...but they were still very polite to us. And if I asked them to critique a dog, they would point out the things that they would want to change....but nobody ever suggested I don't breed a dog; and nobody every pushed me to buy/breed one of their dogs instead...that would be very transparent and rude!

A good rule of thumb, is if someone says 'oh, I just don't like that dog' but can't tell you WHAT they don't like, then they probably have some ulterior motives, or subconscious reason why they don't like it.

I have seen your bitch (at least if it is the one I am thinking of, the tri at the BCOC specialty last year?) and I remember her catching my eye in the ring. If you want to send me some pics, I will give you my honest opinion:)

[YodelDogs]

I'm Sugar's breeder. I didn't want anyone to think I was ignoring this thread. Arlene and I are conversing privately about stated concerns.

[nomrbddgs]

There is a champion pic of her a few weeks ago under Show results and brags - Sugar's Champion Pic.

[Basenji_Boy]

@nomrbddgs:

There is a champion pic of her a few weeks ago under Show results and brags - Sugar's Champion Pic.

She is a beautiful Tri and I want one!!!!!!:D

Congrats to you!

[Quercus]

@nomrbddgs:

There is a champion pic of her a few weeks ago under Show results and brags - Sugar's Champion Pic.

I also think she is beautiful….I sent you and Robyn a private message with critique

[annandael]

I understand where you're coming from. When I showed my girl in Germany, no one really liked her. They didn't like the American type(whatever that is), told me she was fat…told me to put her on a diet when she was on one! It was terrible! I moved to the US and the only really negative thing that people could tell me was that her front was too wide...which I knew. But they love her headpiece which I do as well!

I was told by one breeder that I should give up on blacks and just go with reds since they win. I try to ignore comments like that.

Luckily I have a great mentor that knows pedigrees like the back of her hand and while my girl isn't from her breeding she is going to evaluate her for me sometime this year after she moves.

[Quercus]

<_>

Were you told this in the US, or Germany?_

[Basenji_Boy]

I've heard that B&W comment before and sometimes it may appear that way.

If everyone gave up on the B&W's we'd all lose IMO. We where told to show our B&W in New England.:eek:

From what I see there does seem to be certain preferences in different regions of the country, and also there's always the Judges preference.

[dash]

I am surprised someone would say that about the B/W's I think they are stunning!!! This is why I couldn't show. I would be so sad if someone said Dash is less than perfect. Even though I shouldn't care what others think, it would still hurt.

Nomrbddogs–I am clueless about the show ring but since she got her championship, someone must think she is breed-worthy. for what it's worth, I think she is beautiful!:)

[nomrbddgs]

Thanks to all of you for the comments-she is Tri-ing (ha ha ha). I personally like b/w and tri's. Yes, the red's seem to win more-especially when the judge doesn't know the breed. And whether I breed or not-I don't know there are a lot of considerations.

[Quercus]

@nomrbddgs:

Thanks to all of you for the comments-she is Tri-ing (ha ha ha). I personally like b/w and tri's. Yes, the red's seem to win more-especially when the judge doesn't know the breed. And whether I breed or not-I don't know there are a lot of considerations.

There are lots of considerations…in fact, lots of doesn't even begin to cover it. Coming from someone who has 5 bitches, and hasn't bred one yet

I don't think anybody here is advocating that you must breed....we just don't want to see you discouraged for the wrong reasons

[nomrbddgs]

When travelling through the different regions of the countries you see quite a different variety of Basenji's. In Canada I tend to find big B's out west, short legged B's around here. Out east I'm not sure. I know somewhere in the US there is a more pointy looking Basenji. Can someone tell me more about what's out there??

[tanza]

@nomrbddgs:

When travelling through the different regions of the countries you see quite a different variety of Basenji's. In Canada I tend to find big B's out west, short legged B's around here. Out east I'm not sure. I know somewhere in the US there is a more pointy looking Basenji. Can someone tell me more about what's out there??

What is out where? California.. it is a total mix… (:rolleyes: ) Because there are many breeders with different lines we tend to get a mix of types... and it changes over the years.... and that includes colors... for many, many years it was "red or dead"... (show ring joke)... but now there are way more Tris...Blacks and Brindles... many shows we have had complete line ups of all Tris....

[nomrbddgs]

What's up structure wise are they larger? smaller? How are their heads? Health? Etc.

[lvoss]

When I first said I was going to get a black and white, there were people who told said, "Why would you want a black and white?" or "You know it will be hard to finish a black and white". Then Rally was here and I didn't hear those things much anymore. And as for blacks being harder to finish, not in my experience. I finished Rally 1 week after her second birthday owner handled to every point in California. My mom handled Cole to his championship finishing 3 weeks after his second birthday. Nicky and Rio, my reds have been much more difficult. But Rally and Cole are hard to ignore. When they are on in the show ring they demand that the judges give them fair consideration. And I am sure Pat can chime in on just how charming my black and whites are.

I am a little late in responding since I was showing yesterday and off to another show today. Rio did beat her black and white sister Sophie yesterday but I didn't feel it was a color thing more of a silly puppy thought gaiting meant jumping, twirling, galloping, leaping, etc sort of thing.

[lvoss]

@nomrbddgs:

What's up structure wise are they larger? smaller? How are their heads? Health? Etc.

I think it is as Pat says a little bit of everything. When my mom started showing Cole 2 years ago she felt alot of what was in Southern California was on the smaller side but she said in the last couple of years there seems to be some bigger puppies. She liked showing up in Northern California because there was a little more diversity so no one really looked like the odd man out which was good since when she got Levi from a Southern California breeder he was that smaller type dog so she felt like both boys had an equal chance up here. Heads are the kind of the same, each breeder seems to have a little different head. Health really depends. There are some really working to improve the health of their lines and others well, I just couldn't believe they would say those things out loud.

[tanza]

@nomrbddgs:

What's up structure wise are they larger? smaller? How are their heads? Health? Etc.

Like I said, there are all types on the West coast, from larger to the small, there is no standard type. … We have a number of breeders who have different lines, some cross bred... but there is no one type..... and it changes from year to year...

As far as health? don't know how you qualify that other than to talk to the different breeders if you have questions on their lines and health... that said, you can check out OFA for testing results... and if we have a DNA test for Fanconi by breeding season, that will be a REAL BIG ONE!!!!!!