Marking problem

I have contacted Therese and Kevin, and will get some guidance from them, but I thought I would also put this out to all of you for comments.

Kipawa has peed on three different people (strangers). Here are the situations it happened in:

1. Kipawa was off-leash at a play park. While Darrel and I were talking to someone, Kipawa went up to another man, lifted his leg and peed on his leg and shoe. There were about 20 people and 25 dogs there.

2. Different off-leash park. Less dogs and people. Kipawa lifted his leg and peed on a man, who was really angry about it (the first man took it rather well).

3. A few days back, at a very quiet park, Kipawa was off leash. We met two ladies and their dogs, who were both on leash. Before any of us could stop it, Kipawa peed on one of the girls? leg.

What's going on here? It happens so fast that I can't get to him before he does it. As a reminder, Kipawa is 9 months old and still 'intact'. I don't want this to become habitual. FYI - we are setting up for more training classes to continue with his education.

I hear this so often of people who go to dog parks. Were all the people just standing around or do they keep moving?

When people act like trees at dog parks, they get treated like trees.

@lvoss:

I hear this so often of people who go to dog parks. Were all the people just standing around or do they keep moving?

When people act like trees at dog parks, they get treated like trees.

Ivoss, thanks for your reply. Yes - in the first two instances the people were not moving. Your 'tree' comment makes lots of sense.

However, in the 3rd instance, all 3 people (me and the two ladies) had just barely stopped to exchange a few words while on a trail. It happened after only about 5 - 10 seconds after we all stopped. That park is one with trails (no real congregating areas) and most owners/dogs are walking at a good clip. I suppose I can prevent this by leashing Kipawa if we start talking to people, but I would like to trust that he isn't going to do this.

From my limited experience I think it is more about a convenience to have something to pee up rather than any other reason. My boy did this to me in the ring once when he was about 7 months old when we were standing awaiting assessment - in shock I raised my arms in horror, forgetting that I was attached to the poor lad with a short show lead and so inadvertently he got rather jerked. This seems to have had the effect of teaching him peeing on me is not acceptable, just as peeing in the house etc is not acceptable.

This is not an un-typical male thing to do. I have seen many dogs do it at shows, and Querk peed on my leg once when we were arriving at an agility class. I think it is an expression of excitement…they get the 'nervous wees' and forget wth they are doing 'cause they are excited to be somewhere cool. In my case, Querk only did it ONCE and I acted like the world was coming to an end. Disgusted, yelling, and took him immediately back to his crate in the car. We did go back to the agility class, but I wanted it to be clear to him that was unacceptable. Of course, that is much easier to do when it is your leg, rather than someone elses. You might try a belly band at the park?

To have any kind of effect, you have to catch them in the act with this behavior. I might follow him around, and as soon as you see the clues that he is about to lift his leg...and there ARE clear physical cues when you get used to looking for them...give him a loud "ah.." or physically grab him if you need to. Once he gets the idea that it is not allowed, the behavior should pass...that and him gaining some maturity 😉

Could the smell of their dogs on their pant legs make him to do it? I was holding a Borzoi at a lure trial and he peed on my leg. I was upset and thought it was the smell of my Bs on me that caused him to do it. This dog was intact. The bad thing was he had strong urine!

Jennifer

@lvoss:

I hear this so often of people who go to dog parks. Were all the people just standing around or do they keep moving?

When people act like trees at dog parks, they get treated like trees.

A dog will allways know the difference between a tree and a humen…:D

Why they do it? I don't know. But when they do it, I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing and are not mistaking people for trees.;)

@Voodoo:

A dog will allways know the difference between a tree and a humen…:D

Why they do it? I don't know. But when they do it, I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing and are not mistaking people for trees.;)

I don't think Lisa means that they really mistake a human for a tree…just that any upright object is a good opportunity to mark. When they are distracted by the excitement of a show, a coursing venue, a dog park, they are less likely to pay attention to what they are marking, in the rush to mark everything.

@Quercus:

I don't think Lisa means that they really mistake a human for a tree…just that any upright object is a good opportunity to mark. When they are distracted by the excitement of a show, a coursing venue, a dog park, they are less likely to pay attention to what they are marking, in the rush to mark everything.

I know, but I don't believe that they aren't fully aware of what they are marking.
I think they know pretty well what they are marking, how excited they may be.

@Voodoo:

I know, but I don't believe that they aren't fully aware of what they are marking.
I think they know pretty well what they are marking, how excited they may be.

I disagree…. I know my males when excited could care less what they were peeing on, as long as they found something mostly upright to pee on....

Haha tanza, that they don't care, doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing. :p

Actually, I don't think that in their excitement they differentiate human from tree. So it isn't that they don't care, they really don't make a choice they just pee because it is a convenient upright object. It would actually be easier to fix if they were making a choice because then their brain would be more engaged.

I have seen this done often at dog shows. Sometimes its a stranger, sometimes it the owner. I have no idea why this happens. But most of the basenji folks just laugh and go get the wipes.

@Voodoo:

I know, but I don't believe that they aren't fully aware of what they are marking.
I think they know pretty well what they are marking, how excited they may be.

If excitement didn't play a role in it, then they would piss on our legs when were standing around our own yard, or standing in the kitchen..they don't (at least all the ones I know don't) they do it when they are highly stimulated by the environment.

If they were marking people as property, they wouldn't do it to strangers…

@Quercus:

If they were marking people as property, they wouldn't do it to strangers…

Oh surely to the dog, they're friends after the dog pees on him. :p

@agilebasenji:

Oh surely to the dog, they're friends after the dog pees on him. :p

I dunno…I almost un-friended Querk when he peed on me!!!!

@Voodoo:

Haha tanza, that they don't care, doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing. :p

Again, I disagree

@lvoss:

Actually, I don't think that in their excitement they differentiate human from tree. So it isn't that they don't care, they really don't make a choice they just pee because it is a convenient upright object. It would actually be easier to fix if they were making a choice because then their brain would be more engaged.

Exactly… I agree Lisa..................

@Quercus:

If excitement didn't play a role in it, then they would piss on our legs when were standing around our own yard, or standing in the kitchen..they don't (at least all the ones I know don't) they do it when they are highly stimulated by the environment.

So you really think that when they get excited, they don't know anymore that you are standing next to them? That they just see an object instead that is OK to mark?
Dogs don't do anything without a reason, and they will allways know what's happening around them. If they get excited and need to pee at that moment, and use whatever they can find to lift their leg to, even if it's a human, then that's lack of self-control and/or a lack of respect. Peeing is often a sign of dominance, a way to impress others. If they don't find anything upright to lift their leg to, they can allways squat down to pee.
If they get so excited that they don't know anymore that you are a human, they also won't respond to whatever you say, and that would mean you don't have enough control over your dog or the bond between the 2 of you isn't stong enough. You should allways be able to get his attention to you, and for that, he will allways need to be aware of you, where you are…

Take this as you will, but, when I was showing Shadow, if he didn't want to show that day, he would pee on the closest person. It wasn't a preference, he was just showing his displeasure. If he didn't get the first person, he went to another person. I learned to keep a very, very close eye on him. He also did it when he went to Rally shows. And it wasn't every show, just when he didn't feel like being there. He has never shown any inclination to do this at race events or anywhere else.

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