Sometimes… when you are replying to an OLD POST, it helps to click on the person's name. Many people post once or twice and never return. Yep..
Drew
Join Date 01-18-2015
Last Activity 04-16-2015 09:06 AM
Marking problem
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Could the smell of their dogs on their pant legs make him to do it? I was holding a Borzoi at a lure trial and he peed on my leg. I was upset and thought it was the smell of my Bs on me that caused him to do it. This dog was intact. The bad thing was he had strong urine!
Jennifer
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I hear this so often of people who go to dog parks. Were all the people just standing around or do they keep moving?
When people act like trees at dog parks, they get treated like trees.
A dog will allways know the difference between a tree and a humen…:D
Why they do it? I don't know. But when they do it, I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing and are not mistaking people for trees.;)
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A dog will allways know the difference between a tree and a humen…:D
Why they do it? I don't know. But when they do it, I'm pretty sure they know what they are doing and are not mistaking people for trees.;)
I don't think Lisa means that they really mistake a human for a tree…just that any upright object is a good opportunity to mark. When they are distracted by the excitement of a show, a coursing venue, a dog park, they are less likely to pay attention to what they are marking, in the rush to mark everything.
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I don't think Lisa means that they really mistake a human for a tree…just that any upright object is a good opportunity to mark. When they are distracted by the excitement of a show, a coursing venue, a dog park, they are less likely to pay attention to what they are marking, in the rush to mark everything.
I know, but I don't believe that they aren't fully aware of what they are marking.
I think they know pretty well what they are marking, how excited they may be. -
I know, but I don't believe that they aren't fully aware of what they are marking.
I think they know pretty well what they are marking, how excited they may be.I disagree…. I know my males when excited could care less what they were peeing on, as long as they found something mostly upright to pee on....
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Haha tanza, that they don't care, doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing. :p
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Actually, I don't think that in their excitement they differentiate human from tree. So it isn't that they don't care, they really don't make a choice they just pee because it is a convenient upright object. It would actually be easier to fix if they were making a choice because then their brain would be more engaged.
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I have seen this done often at dog shows. Sometimes its a stranger, sometimes it the owner. I have no idea why this happens. But most of the basenji folks just laugh and go get the wipes.
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I know, but I don't believe that they aren't fully aware of what they are marking.
I think they know pretty well what they are marking, how excited they may be.If excitement didn't play a role in it, then they would piss on our legs when were standing around our own yard, or standing in the kitchen..they don't (at least all the ones I know don't) they do it when they are highly stimulated by the environment.
If they were marking people as property, they wouldn't do it to strangers…
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If they were marking people as property, they wouldn't do it to strangers…
Oh surely to the dog, they're friends after the dog pees on him. :p
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Oh surely to the dog, they're friends after the dog pees on him. :p
I dunno…I almost un-friended Querk when he peed on me!!!!
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Haha tanza, that they don't care, doesn't mean that they don't know what they are doing. :p
Again, I disagree
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Actually, I don't think that in their excitement they differentiate human from tree. So it isn't that they don't care, they really don't make a choice they just pee because it is a convenient upright object. It would actually be easier to fix if they were making a choice because then their brain would be more engaged.
Exactly… I agree Lisa..................
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If excitement didn't play a role in it, then they would piss on our legs when were standing around our own yard, or standing in the kitchen..they don't (at least all the ones I know don't) they do it when they are highly stimulated by the environment.
So you really think that when they get excited, they don't know anymore that you are standing next to them? That they just see an object instead that is OK to mark?
Dogs don't do anything without a reason, and they will allways know what's happening around them. If they get excited and need to pee at that moment, and use whatever they can find to lift their leg to, even if it's a human, then that's lack of self-control and/or a lack of respect. Peeing is often a sign of dominance, a way to impress others. If they don't find anything upright to lift their leg to, they can allways squat down to pee.
If they get so excited that they don't know anymore that you are a human, they also won't respond to whatever you say, and that would mean you don't have enough control over your dog or the bond between the 2 of you isn't stong enough. You should allways be able to get his attention to you, and for that, he will allways need to be aware of you, where you are… -
Take this as you will, but, when I was showing Shadow, if he didn't want to show that day, he would pee on the closest person. It wasn't a preference, he was just showing his displeasure. If he didn't get the first person, he went to another person. I learned to keep a very, very close eye on him. He also did it when he went to Rally shows. And it wasn't every show, just when he didn't feel like being there. He has never shown any inclination to do this at race events or anywhere else.
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Again, I disagree
You make it seem like it is a natural and logical thing to do for a dog.
Reading the commends here, they do it when excited, when displeased, when nervous…
It's not that once a dog get's into a different state of mind, that he forget's the world around him. Knowing what's happening around them is one of the strongest instincts in a dog, simular to hunting instinct. Their survival depends on it. Except in cases of extreme fear, a dog never stops watching what's happing and will allways be allert.
Let's take Kipawa's examples. Don't seem situations in wich the dog would be so excited he forgets the rest of the world. The 3rd example she mentions, they just met a woman with 2 dogs on leash. So what could trigger the behavior there? Excitement propably not, displeasure also seems weird, nervous the same... I'm pretty sure that there, the dog knew pretty well what he was doing and that it was most likely a sign of dominance. The dog saying 'look what I can do, and it's so easy, ain't I the best?'.
Examples in the show ring. Maybe your dog get's really excited, but still, lifting his leg against yours, is still a sign of disrespect. Some people here said they reacted, and he did it just once. But according to what you say, they would get so excited again next time, that they again go into an other state of mind, forget all what's around them, and would do it again, cause they aren't aware of it when they do it.
In dogs is not that abnormal to establish dominance that way, and you have to teach them that it's not OK when they do it with humans. And they way I see it, if your dog tries to do it with his owner, something in the relationship between the 2 of them isn't what it should be. You aren't clear enough to your dog, he doesn't respect you like he should, bonding is not optimal and it's then just one of the many ways your dog can make that clear to you, so you know you got to do something about it. And this is a behavior that you can work on and that can be solved. Not something that you just have to deal with because the dog can't help it. -
I don't think I ever said the behavior can't or shouldn't be corrected, did I? I said only that I agreed that many times it is done with the comments on why/how it happens. And that many times the dog is unaware of the "item" they are trying to mark.
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You make it seem like it is a natural and logical thing to do for a dog.
Reading the commends here, they do it when excited, when displeased, when nervous…
It's not that once a dog get's into a different state of mind, that he forget's the world around him. Knowing what's happening around them is one of the strongest instincts in a dog, simular to hunting instinct. Their survival depends on it. Except in cases of extreme fear, a dog never stops watching what's happing and will allways be allert.
Let's take Kipawa's examples. Don't seem situations in wich the dog would be so excited he forgets the rest of the world. The 3rd example she mentions, they just met a woman with 2 dogs on leash. So what could trigger the behavior there? Excitement propably not, displeasure also seems weird, nervous the same... I'm pretty sure that there, the dog knew pretty well what he was doing and that it was most likely a sign of dominance. The dog saying 'look what I can do, and it's so easy, ain't I the best?'.
Examples in the show ring. Maybe your dog get's really excited, but still, lifting his leg against yours, is still a sign of disrespect. Some people here said they reacted, and he did it just once. But according to what you say, they would get so excited again next time, that they again go into an other state of mind, forget all what's around them, and would do it again, cause they aren't aware of it when they do it.
In dogs is not that abnormal to establish dominance that way, and you have to teach them that it's not OK when they do it with humans. And they way I see it, if your dog tries to do it with his owner, something in the relationship between the 2 of them isn't what it should be. You aren't clear enough to your dog, he doesn't respect you like he should, bonding is not optimal and it's then just one of the many ways your dog can make that clear to you, so you know you got to do something about it. And this is a behavior that you can work on and that can be solved. Not something that you just have to deal with because the dog can't help it.I have never seen a dog mark on another dog to show dominance…and I have never read any reference to it by any credible researcher....neither in dogs, nor wolves. They WILL mark over each other's urine...but not on each other intentionally.
I never said that it is something you just have to deal with...you can definitely teach your dog not to do it...did you see my comment about catching them in the act?
I don't subscribe to your belief in dominance in dogs...and you will find that most progressive trainers and behaviorists don't either. We will have to agree to disagree.
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And just to shed some more light. Dogs and humans do things all the time while not paying much attention. That is why car accidents exisit…people don't usually choose to run off the road, they get distracted. Do you have kids? I can guarantee you that a distracted seven year old will not be able to actually get the pee in the toilet 50% of time.
It would be great if every puppy and human child came out of the womb able to give their complete and undivided attention to any task at hand...but that isn't reality. But that doesn't mean that they do it because of a lack of respect. It also doesn't mean that they shouldn't be taught what is acceptable and what isn't.
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All of you have provided me with much food for thought. Thank you everyone for the comments. That's why I love this forum, because Kipawa is unique in that he is Kipawa, so even things disagreed upon may offer a clue to his behaviour and why he does something.
Kipawa LOVES the dog parks where these incidents happened, so for him, I am tending to think that there definitely is excitement involved, which could add to him wanting to pee, and yes, if an owner was around a dog he was hanging with, he might also pee on the human due to a small display of dominance. I also can see the validity and I do understand what some of you are saying, regarding peeing on the most upright thing, which could be a person.
What to do? I will watch him and be closer to him (may require me to do sprint training!) if I see him seeking out an area where people are just standing around. And Therese gave me an excellent idea - make sure he is 'peed out' before entering the park.
I can tell you that Kipawa and I have a very strong bond. He is with me wherever I go in the house, and when outside and off leash in a fenced park, he always looks back to see where I am. Of course, the bond can always grow. With this in mind, I am talking to another dog behaviour class. He passed his puppy class with flying colours, so it's time to continue with his learning process.
Again, thanks to everyone.
