Pedigree

[tanza]

@cuttiepie732:

Maybe she is not being responsible… idk. I am getting the fanconi test, and if I have to I'll do the other test. I decided on him before I came onto this board, and I really like to talk to you guys. I just think she has a heart... but idk.

Like I have said before, it is everyones choice what/where they decide to get a puppy… we can only give you the voice of reason... and that there are better choices... I wish you good luck with your puppy and only hope that you will have him neutered and enjoy him as a family pet... without health problems.

[cuttiepie732]

Oh trust me my pup is not going to breed. My old chiarat Riley had puppies w a yorkie and surprisingly they were cute! But never again lol. He is going to neutered as soon as it is 'time' for him to be. My old sheltie died of kidney failure so I know what pain feels like when losing a dog. I just hope you guys will still talk to me, and respect me. That's all I am asking for.

[lvoss]

ACA and Continental Kennel Club often referred to as CKC by puppymills in order to sound like the Canadian Kennel Club, a reputable foreign registry. When dogs are advertised as being registered with these registries it is a giant red flag that the person who is breeding does not want to follow AKC rules, including mandatory DNA parentage profiles for frequently used sires but still wants to make their puppies sounds valuable by saying they are "registered".

[agilebasenji]

cuttiepie-
i have to say i've been reading your threads and i just wanted to say i've been really impressed with your openness and learning curve. so many people get defensive and i think that's easy to do when confronted with less than stellar comments about a puppy that they are/planning on bringing home. the advice you've been given here, however, is spot on from caring breeders that have been in the breed for many, many years. however, i think every here also knows it's so easy to quickly fall in love with a basenji puppy, even from just looking at the pictures. but one of the biggest problems with basenjis is that many of the health problems (fanconi, pra) that plague this breed don't show up until the dogs are older. late-onset health problems for many breeds mean 4 or 6; however in our breed a "healthy" dog starting to show signs of fanconi or pra at 10 (or later) is not uncommon. everyone here wants to see you bring home the best possible puppy for your home so that you can enjoy your puppy for many, many healthy years to come. Good luck in whatever you decide.

[cuttiepie732]

Another way I see it is that this puppy is going to a good home. I will love him with all my heart. I am seeing her house when I pick him up…

[cuttiepie732]

Also I already scheduled the flight, called off work, and my mom said we can't change the flight, and stuff, and thank you. lol

[dmcarty]

The Continental Kennel Club is a sham registry - no animal from the CKC will be eligible to compete in any AKC events (unless neutered and you apply for an ILP number) Puppies with a parent whose registry is the CKC are not eligible to be registered with AKC.

What does that mean - it means that while your 'breeder' may be well intentioned - or new - she has started with animals from an unreliable registry and most likely the animals came from a puppy mill or broker. It makes it difficult to track many of the things that basenjis get because - the puppy mill registration is under the radar if they are not AKC. They don't have to comply with any DNA testing that proves the dad is the dad. etc.

So you can say - it doesn't matter because you only want a companion - BUT you are supporting irresponsible breeders when you purchase from someone like this. Your choice of course - but I think enough of us have pointed out things that should be a concern to you - you have to decide if you want to purchase from someone that appears to have mis-represented her sire and dam OR is so lacking in knowledge that someone else gave her mis-information. Neither of which is very appealing as someone that I would expect to have a lifelong relationship with or someone who could assist you over the life of your dog.

[cuttiepie732]

I don't know. I am talking to her tomorrow. Like I said though I already have flight and everything….

[tanza]

@dmcarty:

The Continental Kennel Club is a sham registry - no animal from the CKC will be eligible to compete in any AKC events (unless neutered and you apply for an ILP number) Puppies with a parent whose registry is the CKC are not eligible to be registered with AKC.

What does that mean - it means that while your 'breeder' may be well intentioned - or new - she has started with animals from an unreliable registry and most likely the animals came from a puppy mill or broker. It makes it difficult to track many of the things that basenjis get because - the puppy mill registration is under the radar if they are not AKC. They don't have to comply with any DNA testing that proves the dad is the dad. etc.

So you can say - it doesn't matter because you only want a companion - BUT you are supporting irresponsible breeders when you purchase from someone like this. Your choice of course - but I think enough of us have pointed out things that should be a concern to you - you have to decide if you want to purchase from someone that appears to have mis-represented her sire and dam OR is so lacking in knowledge that someone else gave her mis-information. Neither of which is very appealing as someone that I would expect to have a lifelong relationship with or someone who could assist you over the life of your dog.

Well put… I totally agree...

[cuttiepie732]

Also I don't really know if this matters or what not. I decided to get a basenji, because In december I had to get rid of my dog, because my dad attempted suicide. It broke my heart that I had to get rid of my dog. I had her for 6 years. I decided on a B, because I just like their personality, and I love a challenge. I just typed in basenji puppies on google and it came up on the puppy website. I saw the basenji, and price, so I acted on it. I have never bought from a breeder. Three weeks ago I made the flight reservation, puppy carry on, and the days off I needed. If she is an irresponsible breeder I can't help it. I decided to get him before I came on this forum. I just wanted to talk to people that are aware with basenji's. I found this forum by pure luck. I talked to a breeder near me, and she didn't have any puppies at the time, so I went for the second choice. I need an companion in my life, and I know I am not a breeder, or have an experience with this breed, but in my gut I just have this feeling that everything is going to work out ok… Like I said I am meeting her at her house, and looking at things and what not.

[YodelDogs]

Assuming that the pedigree that Cuttiepie shared with me is her puppy's pedigree and not the sire's, here's what I see. The paternal side of the pedigree from the grandparents on back are an unbroken line of AKC dogs. The paternal grand-parents and great-grandparents are dual registered with either the CKC or ACA. (I can't remember how each club writes it's registration numbers.) The dam is registered with the CKC or ACA, whichever this is. Her parents names are listed but they are not registered. Everything else behind the maternal side of the pedigree is listed as "foreign registry". In other words, it's a fancy way of saying we have no idea who they are. Cuttiepie's puppy cannot obtain AKC registration but it can be registered with whichever registry this is, CKC or ACA.

[lvoss]

Here is some food for thought. What will you do if when the DNA Marker results come back the puppy you plan to go pick up is Probably Affected? Will you still purchase him because you have already booked the flight and taken the time off? If she only tested him and not the rest of the litter and the parents are both carriers any of the pups in the litter could also be Affected so it isn't like you could just pick a different untested pup and to avoid the problem.

And as for "only" wanting a companion, that really should make you even more concerned about these issues. I tell each person that contacts me that every one of puppies is first and foremost someone's companion and as such I will not compromise on health or temperament. Each of my dogs is my companion and I want them with me for as long as possible and to be as healthy as possible. What does that mean to me, it means that I have met every dog I have used in my breeding program prior to breeding to them. I am even now planning to fly across the country this spring to meet the dog I hope to use this fall because I need to see for myself their temperament and know it is what I can live with. The vast majority of my puppies go to homes where their only job is beloved companion but that is such an important job that I don't want them to let their families down. I work hard to give them a super start by socializing them to all sorts of people, noises, textures, objects so no matter what they encounter they approach life with confidence and curiosity.

This is what the breeders on this forum want for you. They want you to look beyond the cute puppy picture to think about whether you really are getting the companion you want.

It breaks my heart when I see dogs who are so terrified when they see new person they cringe and hide. Or when I see dogs who are obviously in pain from hip dysplasia. These are things that responsible breeders work hard to prevent and though sometimes things still pop up a responsible breeder is committed for the life of that dog through thick or thin.

[dmcarty]

There are plenty of real and reputable breeders within a couple of states of you that do have animals available and right now. A list like this can 'help' some when you have dog issues but your primary source of information should be your 'breeder' who appears to not know what she is doing and likely will not be any help to you.

[renaultf1]

@agilebasenji:

cuttiepie-
i have to say i've been reading your threads and i just wanted to say i've been really impressed with your openness and learning curve. so many people get defensive and i think that's easy to do when confronted with less than stellar comments about a puppy that they are/planning on bringing home. the advice you've been given here, however, is spot on from caring breeders that have been in the breed for many, many years. however, i think every here also knows it's so easy to quickly fall in love with a basenji puppy, even from just looking at the pictures. but one of the biggest problems with basenjis is that many of the health problems (fanconi, pra) that plague this breed don't show up until the dogs are older. late-onset health problems for many breeds mean 4 or 6; however in our breed a "healthy" dog starting to show signs of fanconi or pra at 10 (or later) is not uncommon. everyone here wants to see you bring home the best possible puppy for your home so that you can enjoy your puppy for many, many healthy years to come. Good luck in whatever you decide.

+1 on this. And I'm very sorry for the stuff that you've gone thru with your dad and can appreciate you wanting and needing a companion as a result.

But please, read what lvoss has said right above. And then please read the other threads on this board from people with heart ache dealing with Fanconi afflicted dogs or even dogs that have come back "probably affected" and they are in waiting and worrying mode as to when their dog might show symptoms.

If your pup comes back "probably affected", stop for a minute. You've been through enough…with your father, with having to give up your other dog, with your dog who had kidney failure. You owe it to yourself to have a "healthy companion" and to start out with one with that can develop this horrible disease is doing a disservice to YOU and your chance to heal and move forward with some happiness. Here is your chance to slow down now that you have more information...while you wait for the results of the fanconi marker test on your pup.

Plane tickets can be changed for little or no money (and I've had plenty of success negotiating for $0 when there is supposed to be a fee) and can be done so the tickets are good for a year...trust me, I do it all the time. Please don't let your plane ticket be the deciding factor on taking a dog that may have health problems later on down the road.

[cuttiepie732]

The one thing that is bothering me is what my sister told me. This pup has a home now… If I say no then he doesn't. I am waiting for th test result, and I have talked with candyce for awhile now, and no offense to you guys, you have not. I really truly believe that she does have a good head on her shoulder. She might not be a top breeder, but she does care for these animals. Maybe not in your eyes I don't know. If you guys really want to, talk to her... idk

[Maya]

Im sorry for butting in here. Im new to the website and to the breed and i dont even own my basenji yet.

But i breed dogs, and i have bought and sold a few over the years and i can honestly say that you need to really sit down and think about this.

You have been through hell recently with your father and your dog, im sure most people on here couldn't even begin to understand what its like, but if you get a dog (of any breed, not just a basenji!) that is not health tested you are setting yourself up for more potential heartache. Is it really worth it?

Yes, he has a home now if you have him. But at what cost to you?? Im sorry, but sometimes you have to be selfish. You wouldnt keep buying dogs from shops and puppy farmers (not sure what you call them in america???) just because they have no home, would you?? It is not your responsibility to home this puppy, and maybe if the breeder was stuck with a litter of puppies they cant sell they might rethink their breeding practices… That is the only way these health problems can be controlled!

You have been given some great advice. I dont mean to be rude, but it seems like you rushed into getting this puppy without researching breeders properly, you do NOT have to buy the puppy if you are not 100% certain. Phone the breeder, tell her that for personal reasons you cant have the pup if you dont want to have the health testing discussion, and do some research for some GOOD breeders around you. Im sure people on here would be more than willing to help you find a nice, healthy basenji puppy.

Im sure you could cancel/change the flight, but even if not, i would not let the cost of a plane ticket cause me a lot of unnecessary problems in the future...

[wizard]

Cutiepie - I applaud you for wanting to help this pup (but that pup will always have a home unless put to sleep; to say it won't is playing on emotions). However, really give this extra thought (yes plane tickets are expensive but …). Your "breeder" tried to help save these dogs (and she should be commended for that) but she is not experienced with basenjis, she admitted it. Ask her if she will refund part or all of your money if your pup develops fanconi's or other genetic problem; also ask her if she will cover all or part of the tests for these diseases (you can have them done at your local vet). Also research Fanconi's and other genetic diseases (it won't take long on the internet) and consider what you will do if your pup develops the symptoms. Then make your final decision.
Remember now everyone here wants the best for the breed and for you.

[agilebasenji]

As hard as it is to decide NOT to get a puppy right now (not to mention time and money spent), it would be waaay harder to deal with Fanconi years later (not to mention time and money spent).

[tanza]

The chances of you getting (or the breeder) the DNA test results for Fanconi back by the time you were planning on picking him up are at best really slim. It can take 4 to 6 wks, depending on how many they have to run, as they are done in groups.

[bellabasenji]

Sorry to say… I got my Bella from a petstore. She was a gift from my husband for my B-day. I would not trade her for the world, but I also would not buy from petshoppes or BYB's now that I know what I know about them. I love Bella dearly and she is really a good girl, but she also has a luxating patella that I know will get worse as she ages. This would not have happened with a responsible breeder. Also, I have the decision to make about DNA testing for fanconi... I am torn between having it done and possibly knowing she will have fanconi in the future (this would tear me up inside and I would worry constantly). So, since I am not DNA testing at this time, I strip test every month. I just wish so much I had more resources BEFORE we purchased her. I wish I would have had this wonderful group of people to talk to prior to getting a puppy! Bella is my first dog and she has taught me so much about Basenjis and dogs in general. The Basenji Slaves on this forum have taught me so much about the breed and breeding issues, they have much insight and experience that I value. So IMO if you want to "rescue" a pup, then check out some young Basenjis on Petfinder or a Basenji rescue group. I am talking from the other side here and still agree with previous posts about BYBs. And I definitely do NOT think they are saying any of this to be mean. We just want what is best for you…