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Kinetic Breeding Plans

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12 Nov 2008, 14:28

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  • T

    When to consider breeding?

    Breeder Talk
    142 15 Feb 2018, 18:30
    15 Feb 2018, 18:30
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    @bigv said in When to consider breeding?: So Taylor.rene . A little bit about my findings over the last 30 years is that every person who breeds dogs calls them self a responsible breeder? "" Yes, and fortunately for about 20 year now, anyone who really wants to verify if the breeder is actually believable can do so. Some breeders have no problem with incest for the sake of a ribbon as (dogs aren't people )..It is all about titles not the betterment of the breed. Being involved with race horses..<< Gosh, where to begin. " Incest" is a morality terminology, applied as everything from just not parent/child and aunt or uncles/nieces and nephews....all the way to 2nd or even 3rd cousins. It has little to do with genetics, hence adopted children count, and everything to do with moral views. That said, the human race is far from universally avoiding what would be called close line breeding or even incest. Isolated communities ...either physically by geographic terrain or socially by groups such Ashkenazi Jews and Romani, have limited gene pools. Ashkenazi Jews, btw, joke we are all no further than 5th cousins, but it is nearly true. Dogs and animals have no such manmade morals. A common propensity for many mammals to not to mate with closely related animals has nothing to do with incest. In limited populations they will mate, and the problems that arise if it occurs too often are due to decreased gene, increased expression of harmful genes etc. In controlled breeding, line breeding, even close, can be used to find if there are harmful recessives, or bring out desired recessives. If you think it isn't done with livestock, including horses, you're mistaken. With knowledgeable breeders who keep up on genetics, it absolutely is for the betterment of the breed, not a ribbon... Yes I am not a fan of line breeding but it seems that every zoo in the world has a similar view as they are always swapping animals to improve the genes . ...<<<<< Again, absolutely nothing to do with incest. Zoo animals, even those of nonendangered species, have a serious issue with limited gene pools. The level of that limitation cannot be compared to most pet breeds. We aren't talking many thousands of individuals, or millions, but sometimes 100 or less. Stud books are kept, for example, on all the polar bears in zoos and the effort to keep the diversification as high as possible is serious. (I'll leave out my views on them being in zoos.) So sure, if dog breeders were faced with THAT level of limited gene pool, line breeding would probably be avoided as much as possible. However, that all ignores the fact that dogs in any breed are mostly related.. If you go back 10 or more generations, you find the same dogs heavily in most lines. Sometimes 2 dogs that aren't related 3 generations back may share more actual genes than a closely related dog who has a lot of breeding out of the line on one side. That's where knowledgeable breeders come in. Having studied dingos for the past 15 years I can say without dought a bitch won't mate with relative... They are similar to basenjis in many ways. ...<< That's nice that you've studied them. But researchers are making new discoveries based on actual observations and finding a lot of what they thought isn't true. With massive interbreeding with domestic dogs, the pure dingos are disappearing. I envy those of you able to see them. However researchers suspect they have ...>>During this a hitherto unknown form of the “pure” dingo was discovered (based on DNA and skull features): a white dog with orange spots on the fur. This variant was considered as a single mutation or the result of interbreeding with an isolated dingo population.<< So they don't rule it out. (I downloaded to read, over 100 pages but you might love it. I'll save for later! https://web.archive.org/details/http://www.invasiveanimals.com/downloads/Final-proceedings-with-cover.pdf ) And my boy does have a title that no other basenji has . He is the first and only basenji to be approved by the Victorian State Goverment to be authorised to hunt deer on private and public land within its borders. But to some this would make him unsuitable to breed with you figure?<<< First, while you have done an impressive job with you dogs, I am pretty sure that is a privilege given, not a "title," and I am 100% certain his being able to would have nothing to do with whether anyone deemed him not worthy of breeding to. With the right health checks, good conformation, etc, I would think a good plus...especially if the bitch owner wanted to possibly enhance hunting ability. It simply isn't enough.
  • N

    Dogo Habari Breeding plans 2012

    Breeder Talk
    142 3 Nov 2012, 11:25
    3 Nov 2012, 11:25
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    Congrats on a nice sized variety litter! Had to pop over to facebook to see them. :)
  • Y

    Sherwood Basenjis Breeding Plans 2012

    Breeder Talk
    142 30 Oct 2012, 16:41
    30 Oct 2012, 16:41
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    You should be good and nuts by week 5! I don't envy you at all, Happy puppies!!
  • T

    Tanza Basenjis Breeding Plans for 2012

    Breeder Talk
    142 28 Sept 2012, 16:04
    28 Sept 2012, 16:04
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    @ownedbyspencer: LOL– your empty nest isn't staying empty at all! Hope the girls had fun at their sleepover. :) We have great fun!
  • W

    In-Breeding/Line Breeding

    Breeder Talk
    142 16 Nov 2007, 22:57
    16 Nov 2007, 22:57
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    @Quercus: <> Right...I wasn't sure if that was the litter that Sue was referring to? But I don't know of her doing any other brother/sister breeding. So yes, Ariel is a product of that breeding. The idea was to do a test breeding to see what genetically, if anything, might be brought out. By doing an inbreeding, you can 'expose' recessive genes, and see what you've actually got. You can also set (as in permanantly set) type...but, that wasn't the goal in Sue/Jeff's breeding. In this case, the two "best" "typey" puppies from this litter will most likely be bred on from, as long as they test out as genetically and physically healthy, they will most likely be out-crossed, to bring in different genes. Ariel's brother, George, is quite stunning, and is easily the best looking puppy in the litter. Ariel has a beautiful head, but is long in body, short in leg. Neither one is what we consider a "show dog" ;) And the litter's sire is quite handsome!.... the dam of the litter, while long in the back and short on leg (like it sounds Ariel is) has a great temperament... both are great to build on the future.... and breeding out from these pups will be great to build on too.... I am pretty sure that would be the breeding Sue was talking about, like you I don't know of any other brother/sister breeding she and Jeff has done.
  • S

    Interested in breeding

    Breeder Talk
    142 12 Jan 2007, 15:40
    12 Jan 2007, 15:40
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    I got my first basenji about 8 1/2 years ago. I wanted a dog that I could try lure coursing and maybe agility with. I was not interested in showing but agreed to try a a match or two before making a final decision and getting him neutered. At first Nicky didn't really show much interest in lure coursing and I couldn't find any agility classes near me so I entered Nicky in a match. We had fun and I decided I would give showing a try. When Nicky turned about 20 months old he finally decided the lure looked like a whole lot of fun so we split our time between showing him and coursing him. Nicky finished his AKC and ASFA Field Championships fairly quickly and when he was about 2 1/2 years old we decided we wanted to get him a companion. When his breeder was a planning a litter with black and whites expected I told her that I wanted on the waiting list. Nicky was 3 years old when Rally joined the pack. Rally has always been an enthusiastic courser and had that elusive "show attitude" that Nicky lacked she became my first Champion. During this time I also became active in my local breed club and in rescue. I learned a lot about the history of the breed and about how many people get basenjis because they are attracted to its small size and "barklessness" without understanding about its intelligence, sense of humor, and ability to scream bloody murder when upset. It was a big decision to decide to breed Rally. Being a responsible breeder means being responsible for the pups you bring into this world for the rest of their lives and means breeding with the best interest of the breed at heart. I decided to co-breed a litter out of Rally with her breeder because I felt that Rally had a lot to offer the breed as a whole. She has a healthy pedigree that is not over-represented in the gene pool, she has a fabulous temperament that has charmed many a person, and she is a lovely example of a black and white basenji. It took a year of planning and some bumps in the road but in the end we had a nice litter of 4 pups. I am very proud of all my puppy owners for keeping their puppies active and participating in lure coursing with their dogs. We had really hoped for a black girl in Rally's first litter but she gave us a black boy and only red girls. So we started researching again and after nearly 2 years of planning we bred her to an Avongara. Please take time to read about the emergency c-section that we had to have when one of the pups was mispositioned. It was heartbreaking to lose one of the pups and so scary to think that we could have lost Rally. Breeding is a labor of love. There are so many things that can go wrong and so much screening to make sure the pups end up in homes that will cherish them forever and understand what it is to own a basenji. Basenjis are not for everyone and as much as I love the breed, I have seen many end up in homes that should never have had a basenji and some were homes that would be great for the right breed just not a basenji.