Did she always have them or did they start after something/some time? Do antihistamines clear the problem?
Separation Anxiety
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I He's not a counter surfer either although I have seen him jump a stacked railroad tie retaining wall that was 5' high.
5'?? WOW! That is AWESOME! Jack will jump from the floor to the top of the arm chair, which is probably 3.5-4 ft.:D
As far as separation anxiety goes, if one person leaves the house, or sometimes even the room, he has a fit, he will run around in circles. Once I left him with some friends while I was in the hospital, and one of them left to pick up food, and they said that he threw himself against the door once, ran around in a couple of circles and then sat on the couch and watched out the window until he came back. However, he doesn't have a single problem with his crate. He goes in, I shut the door, I leave. I come home and he wakes up and looks at me like "you're back already?" So, is this the start of separation anxiety, or just normal, "Where did mom/dad go?"
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You know I have noticed similar behaviors with Dallas as you have with Jack & have worried that it may be the start of separation anxiety. Dallas is also okay in the crate after crying for a few minutes after we leave. However, if we don't crate him [like when we leave for 10 minutes] he goes NUTS! If we are outside & he's in the house by himself he will pace between the front door & the sliding glass. He'll scratch & scream at both doors. He will start getting destructive, even if he can't see us. It's like he lashes out because we've left him. Also, if he even thinks that we're getting ready to go somewhere [like going through the motions of putting on our shos, picking up my purse, etc.] he'll start darting back & forth between us & the front door & whining.
One time when I was outside cleaning my car [boyfriend was inside with him!] he went into our guest room & managed to hop onto the window sill [which I still cannot understand how…] & just screamed at the top of his lungs!!! Mark thought Dallas had hurt himself so he rushes in & while going to get Dallas down, he actually jumped off the sill & landed really awkwardly on the ground. He was fine but I'm scared that if this continues he really will hurt himself! He is fine if we're in the house & in a different room from him & he even will sit quietly in his crate while we are in the apartment. It's just when one of us or both physically leave the apartment, he doesn't like it one bit.
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5'?? WOW! That is AWESOME! Jack will jump from the floor to the top of the arm chair, which is probably 3.5-4 ft.:D
Trust me, I was impressed also. But I have to clarify just a tidbit.
He jumps and hooks his paws on the top of the wall and climbs the rest of the way over. He can't 'clear' it without touching it. Maybe one of these days I'll get it on video. The wall is slightly tiered meaning that each tie, is it gets higher, is set back about an inch. So it takes the appearance of severely steep stairs. But top to bottom, the horizontal offset is only about 6". That's 6 ties, each one stacked sits 1" back from the face of the one below. Either way, I was still quite impressed with it. I just wish I could convince him to jump up to me so I could catch him.Regarding the SA, Tucker still has moments of weakness and goes nuts when I leave him somewhere other than home. Last time I took him to the kennel, he broke free inside the lobby and ran to the door and cowered. It was terrible for me to leave him. Also, I have a friend who works from home and I've left him with her on mornings when the maid comes because I don't need a lawsuit. She said he drives her crazy. Whining the whole time, running from one window to the next for the entire time I'm gone. She can normally get him to go to sleep after a couple hours, but the first time someone makes any racket outside the window, he's back at it.
At home he does fine, but as I said, it took about 5 months to get to the 'he does fine' point. He's NEVER gotten so pissed that he tore something up aside from my bedspread after he peed on it. (He was trying to destroy the evidence)…
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Trust me, I was impressed also. But I have to clarify just a tidbit.
He jumps and hooks his paws on the top of the wall and climbs the rest of the way over. He can't 'clear' it without touching it. Maybe one of these days I'll get it on video. The wall is slightly tiered meaning that each tie, is it gets higher, is set back about an inch. So it takes the appearance of severely steep stairs. But top to bottom, the horizontal offset is only about 6". That's 6 ties, each one stacked sits 1" back from the face of the one below. Either way, I was still quite impressed with it. I just wish I could convince him to jump up to me so I could catch him.If you can get it on video, I'd love to see it.
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I'll give it a shot. He never seems to want to pose for a picture ( I call him and just when I hit the button, he looks away) of do anything fun for a video (He'll play furiously with the dogs at the 'park' and when I push record, he sits down and takes a break)… DOGS! SHEESH! The good news is that at this very moment I've just realized I have my own personal Tucker on/off button...
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Telling people that "if they get a hand (paw) hold" on the top of something.. they will be out in a flash…. Maggii did it for years and years..
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@Leigh:
My vet prescribed Bachs Rescue Remedy but 4 drops did nothing. Now she suggests meds (ugh!) I don't know what to do next. I don't want her to hurt herself. Does anyone have a solution to such separation anxiety or separation panic? Thank you.
It sounds like things have reached a point where you would probably be best served contacting a veterinary behavorist so you can get good advice how to use medication and behavior modification techniques to get this under control.
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Do be careful what meds you use; make sure your vet/behaviorist is familiar with Basenjis. Keoki had REALLY BAD reactions to Acepromazine – which I was later told should never have been used -- he became an insane drunk dog for about four hours. It was horrible.
Then we used Torbutrol for a few days followed by Busipirone, which DID calm his behavior, but it also changed his personality. He wandered around calmly, with his little tail hanging down; seemed more fearful of things.... I didn't like it. For me, it was three strikes and you're out,so we dropped meds entirely.
That was when I switched to the ex-pen and just hurried out so I wouldn't hear him screaming. He doesn't scream any more {it's been five months since we stopped all meds}, but he does go into destructo-mode.
We don't try to crate him any more, but keep both B's together in an ex-pen when we leave. We do leave the crates in the pen for them, but I may have to re-think that plan as he is chewing the daylights out of the OUTside of both crates. He NEVER chews them when we're home, and we do leave things for him to chew on. [darn it, Jazzy's was brand-new.
] , so I know it's a reaction to being left.I am fortunate in that I don't work outside the home, so we seldom have to leave him. If we had to leave him every day, I don't know what I would have done.
Anyway, somehow this long story was just supposed to be a caution – watch your dog for real changes on meds. I don't want to seem to be discounting meds because I know that many work and are sometimes completely necessary. But I wouldn't use them and leave the dog alone the first time or two. Try them out in such a way that you can observe the effect in your dog.
{Also, Bach's Rescue Remedy is alcohol based, as I learned while using it; not really a great plan as the alcohol is tougher on a dog's system than on a humans.}
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Yes to both of the above posts. Acepromazine is a sedative…not really a great choice for anxiety related problems. And, yes some dogs respond poorly to even the best choice of medication. And the best bet for a good medication/behavioral modification plan is going to come from a veterinary behaviorist...someone trained in both the medical and behavioral aspects of dogs. You may have to do some searching to find one in your area...but it is definitely worth it, IMO
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yes some dogs respond poorly to even the best choice of medication. And the best bet for a good medication/behavioral modification plan is going to come from a veterinary behaviorist…someone trained in both the medical and behavioral aspects of dogs. You may have to do some searching to find one in your area...but it is definitely worth it, IMO
Thank you for your help, & thanks everyone else for your stories and support. The vet said Clomipramine (Clomicalm), but dogs take that daily. I have a home office, so she's fine when I'm here, but I leave for 2 hours 3x a week. Crating is out. Can't take her with me, or leave her in the car. Giving her the house no longer works; I'm now afraid she'll hurt herself. Is there a mild relaxing something that can be used as needed? Victoria thanks you for your help!
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@Leigh:
Thank you for your help, & thanks everyone else for your stories and support. The vet said Clomipramine (Clomicalm), but dogs take that daily. I have a home office, so she's fine when I'm here, but I leave for 2 hours 3x a week. Crating is out. Can't take her with me, or leave her in the car. Giving her the house no longer works; I'm now afraid she'll hurt herself. Is there a mild relaxing something that can be used as needed? Victoria thanks you for your help!
If this were my dog, I would still give her the Clomicalm daily while you work on resolving the issues with behavior modification. This is a deep problem for the dog, and although you have set it up so that you rarely need to be away from the home..that, obviously won't change the root behavior of the dog. There may be times where you must be away more; so IMO it would be best to take the time now to work on the behavior using whatever means you must, so that in the future you won't have to worry about a change to your schedule.
In my experience, no, there isn't anything mild that is going to fix this problem. You could liken it to a human with a panic disorder trying to medicate it with alcohol….kwim? It may work at the moment, but it doesn't fix the problem, and isn't very healthy for you.
Lots and lots of dogs have really had a lot of success with Clomicalm, and it doesn't need to be a lifetime drug. The intention is to get the dog calm enough that behavior modification works.
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You may feel more comfortable making a decision about what the right course of action for Victoria will be if you consult with a veterinary behavorist. A person that comes into your home and meets with you and your dog, sees your home setup, and works with you to develop a long term plan for helping Victoria. I think that knowing what the goals are will help you to know which path is best for you and Victoria.
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Dash had serious separation anxiety for at least 2 years. We had the same results-bloody paws and everthing anywhere near his crate was destroyed in seconds. We got a second dog and put them in the expen. That worked for awhile. Then Dash decided he didn't like the expen so we got a doggie door and he goes in and out into our fenced yard as he wishes. We did speak to a trainer that said most severe sep dogs can not be crated.
That worked for us. I am not sure if any of that is an option for you. Good luck!
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This is directed to everyone, not just Leigh:
Be very watchful if you put your dog on Clomicalm. My boy had a moderate allergic reaction to it after a few days (extreme lethargy, vomiting, no appetite, lots of head shaking), and I had to take him off it and use behavior modification techniques only.
Also, please be aware that any medication in and of itself is not going to cure the problem, you still need to employ behavior modification techniques while giving it, so that when the medication is slowly removed, the dog keeps the good behavior he's learned from your patient training. I can't imagine anyone who's cool with keeping their dogs on a tranquilizer for the rest of his life.
Leigh, I wanted to PM you about someone who might be able to help you if you ask, but I don't seem to have the ability to PM…
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Dash had serious separation anxiety for at least 2 years. We had the same results-bloody paws and everthing anywhere near his crate was destroyed in seconds. We got a second dog and put them in the expen. That worked for awhile. Then Dash decided he didn't like the expen so we got a doggie door and he goes in and out into our fenced yard as he wishes. We did speak to a trainer that said most severe sep dogs can not be crated.
That worked for us. I am not sure if any of that is an option for you. Good luck!
Yes, I do not think we'd have made the progress we have with Keoki if we hadn't had Jazzy. I think it's the fact that she is in the ex-pen w/him that keeps him from going totally insane.
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@Leigh:
Thank you for your help, & thanks everyone else for your stories and support. The vet said Clomipramine (Clomicalm), but dogs take that daily. I have a home office, so she's fine when I'm here, but I leave for 2 hours 3x a week. Crating is out. Can't take her with me, or leave her in the car. Giving her the house no longer works; I'm now afraid she'll hurt herself. Is there a mild relaxing something that can be used as needed? Victoria thanks you for your help!
The behaviorist that worked with Keoki also mentioned that while our lifestyle – homeschooling family -- did indeed eliminate the need for him to have to be left alone every day, it also possibly exacerbated the separation problem because we were ALWAYS there, and then every once in a while we disappeared and he'd freak out.
Might be worth it to leave the house every day, even if you just take a 30 minute walk by yourself, to get her accustomed to being alone more often and to help her learn that yes, she CAN breathe if you are not home.
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Thank you for your help and your kindness. I'm discussing it with my vet/behaviorist and doing lots of research. My girl has had so much loss, plus she's timid to boot. She's afraid of things: noise, people, her reflection, dogs, me leaving. Behavior mod has already helped many things: her tail is now up, she now plays tricks and chase with me, she steals, she gardens, has a new dog friend & loves grooming. When I'm here, she's not so glued to me anymore, hangs around the yard & other rooms. Some things got better, sep anxiety got worse, but I feel positive about the work ahead of us. Thanks again. I'll keep you posted.
