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Breeding my 2 year old Basenji

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  • katomanK
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  • DebraDownSouthD

    @katoman said in Breeding my 2 year old Basenji:

    @Nancy-Berry there is nothing that mentions genitalia, you might be confusing the work genetic -OMG this is hilarious.

    You maybe were not awake or fully in control of your faculties, so you might want to reread your own post

    There is no law requiring to neuter them, it's a choice, and I am pretty sure I live in America still. Just because I am not a vegan, and I choose to eat meat, or I don't smoke, (I have never smoked )...its my right not too nor because I decided to have 2 real human children and not cut my ba!!$ off, and you might be all of those who wags a finger at all that, that's your right to do as you please, without my comments as it is my right as well.<<

    "not cut my .... off" .... genitalia there, not genetic. LOL. Yes it is hilarious.

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  • N

    @DebraDownSouth I'm glad someone else knows what genitalia means! He said it....no getting around it!! And besides.....who cares if he does or doesn't cut his b...$ off? Not me! He's getting so angry, he can't even talk right!! That's bad for the blood pressure!!

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  • N

    @katoman Well woop dee doo! Your son was in the military! So was I ~ along with thousands of others! I'm glad he's helping with Pit Bulls...they are terriers but people forget that last word. And idiots make money off of fighting them which is disgusting!

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  • katomanK

    Now she mocks the military...

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  • DebraDownSouthD

    Says she was also in the military isn't mocking it. It was point out that your son being in the military has nothing to do with the topic, any more than her being in it. Nor does Trump have to do with it. Nor does your family jewels. Nor does calling people names. Nor does most of the other stuff. Are you capable at all of discussing dogs like a mentally stable adult without the abusive rants and stuff? Give it a try.

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  • katomanK
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  • DebraDownSouthD
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  • D

    @DebraDownSouth

    Having been a 'dog person' all my life I decided to get a dog after starting a family with my wife. Tried the local shelters but couldn't find a dog that I felt was 'right'.

    My first B came from a pet store, I knew nothing about Basenjis and the owner said they are great dogs, good with kids and very loyal etc, he came with an AKC pedigree. I figured he would be great as he had a pedigree.

    Many years later I found out by research he came from a puppy mill in Kansas. His health was problematic after the first two years, he was also prone to pancreatitis. At six years old he developed diabetes, with the constant testing, insulin and needles. It worked out around $2000 a year for five years until he passed at eleven, so around $10,000. Still, I didn't really care so much about the money as he was such a good dog. The constant care was hard, he needed monitoring almost 24/7 as he was a brittle diabetic and his sugar was hard to control. Many late nights staying up late and every morning was early to test him.

    He coped with it well although I know he did not like the injections sometimes, we got different size needles which helped and became experts at injections. Still, I would wish no dog to have to go through that.

    Our other two Basenjis we got from a reputable breeder, our oldest is ten in a few days and has been very healthy her whole life. She is showing elevated liver enzymes now on routine blood work but shows no other symptoms. Our youngest is three and is also very healthy.

    So, to me it seems insane to buy any basenji without full health testing and from a reputable breeder.

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  • DebraDownSouthD

    I am sorry about your first dog. Having had rescues with serious health issues, I understand the desire for getting the healthiest possible. Sometimes, even with the best of breeders (like our Samoyed), problems can be a firestorm of bad luck. But your chances are so much better with good breeders.

    Not sure if it will help, but I have used milk thistle for my liver for 14 yrs. The research on it is not strong, but it can't hurt. And it's not expensive. I put nothing in me without my liver doc's approval, btw.

    https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/milk-thistle-or-silymarin (for pets)

    http://www.mayoclinic.org/drugs-supplements/milk-thistle/evidence/hrb-20059806 (for people)

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  • D

    Yes you can be unlucky with anything, but doing everything you can to ensure a healthy dog should be the top priority.

    My girl has had blood work every year just as routine after my firsts problems. She has no symptoms, we just caught it on the yearly two years ago she slightly elevated, last year she was more elevated.

    We first started just Nutramax denamarin, three months later it made no difference to her readings.

    We switched her to Dr Dobs detox diet and Nutramax denamarin, went back after three months and her levels went up!

    So now we have her on regular food, denamarin in the morning, milk thistle in the afternoon and twice daily 1000mg of fish oil.

    Due to go back in February and see if that works. If not we will probably have to ultrasound. All her other blood work is normal so that is a good thing.

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  • taylor.rene.gT

    When to consider breeding?

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    DebraDownSouthD
    @bigv said in When to consider breeding?: So Taylor.rene . A little bit about my findings over the last 30 years is that every person who breeds dogs calls them self a responsible breeder? "" Yes, and fortunately for about 20 year now, anyone who really wants to verify if the breeder is actually believable can do so. Some breeders have no problem with incest for the sake of a ribbon as (dogs aren't people )..It is all about titles not the betterment of the breed. Being involved with race horses..<< Gosh, where to begin. " Incest" is a morality terminology, applied as everything from just not parent/child and aunt or uncles/nieces and nephews....all the way to 2nd or even 3rd cousins. It has little to do with genetics, hence adopted children count, and everything to do with moral views. That said, the human race is far from universally avoiding what would be called close line breeding or even incest. Isolated communities ...either physically by geographic terrain or socially by groups such Ashkenazi Jews and Romani, have limited gene pools. Ashkenazi Jews, btw, joke we are all no further than 5th cousins, but it is nearly true. Dogs and animals have no such manmade morals. A common propensity for many mammals to not to mate with closely related animals has nothing to do with incest. In limited populations they will mate, and the problems that arise if it occurs too often are due to decreased gene, increased expression of harmful genes etc. In controlled breeding, line breeding, even close, can be used to find if there are harmful recessives, or bring out desired recessives. If you think it isn't done with livestock, including horses, you're mistaken. With knowledgeable breeders who keep up on genetics, it absolutely is for the betterment of the breed, not a ribbon... Yes I am not a fan of line breeding but it seems that every zoo in the world has a similar view as they are always swapping animals to improve the genes . ...<<<<< Again, absolutely nothing to do with incest. Zoo animals, even those of nonendangered species, have a serious issue with limited gene pools. The level of that limitation cannot be compared to most pet breeds. We aren't talking many thousands of individuals, or millions, but sometimes 100 or less. Stud books are kept, for example, on all the polar bears in zoos and the effort to keep the diversification as high as possible is serious. (I'll leave out my views on them being in zoos.) So sure, if dog breeders were faced with THAT level of limited gene pool, line breeding would probably be avoided as much as possible. However, that all ignores the fact that dogs in any breed are mostly related.. If you go back 10 or more generations, you find the same dogs heavily in most lines. Sometimes 2 dogs that aren't related 3 generations back may share more actual genes than a closely related dog who has a lot of breeding out of the line on one side. That's where knowledgeable breeders come in. Having studied dingos for the past 15 years I can say without dought a bitch won't mate with relative... They are similar to basenjis in many ways. ...<< That's nice that you've studied them. But researchers are making new discoveries based on actual observations and finding a lot of what they thought isn't true. With massive interbreeding with domestic dogs, the pure dingos are disappearing. I envy those of you able to see them. However researchers suspect they have ...>>During this a hitherto unknown form of the “pure” dingo was discovered (based on DNA and skull features): a white dog with orange spots on the fur. This variant was considered as a single mutation or the result of interbreeding with an isolated dingo population.<< So they don't rule it out. (I downloaded to read, over 100 pages but you might love it. I'll save for later! https://web.archive.org/details/http://www.invasiveanimals.com/downloads/Final-proceedings-with-cover.pdf ) And my boy does have a title that no other basenji has . He is the first and only basenji to be approved by the Victorian State Goverment to be authorised to hunt deer on private and public land within its borders. But to some this would make him unsuitable to breed with you figure?<<< First, while you have done an impressive job with you dogs, I am pretty sure that is a privilege given, not a "title," and I am 100% certain his being able to would have nothing to do with whether anyone deemed him not worthy of breeding to. With the right health checks, good conformation, etc, I would think a good plus...especially if the bitch owner wanted to possibly enhance hunting ability. It simply isn't enough.
  • wizardW

    Too old?

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    DebraDownSouthD
    @thunderbird8588: Hi Kathy, both my dogs came of course resposible breeders in the UK. I could be speaking out of turn here and i hope someone in the UK will correct me if i'm wrong but UK breeders in the Basenji world as far as i am aware don't tend to breed that many litters to warrant moving a dog on to make room. The Basenji population in the UK is still quite small Sorry, but I doubt it. Lets say you have done it all right and you are starting out with ONLY one bitch. You breed, you keep a bitch. Now you have 2 bitches… breed the original bitch again once the next year, may now have 3 bitches. Next year you may skip I guess, so okay, couple of years later you breed 2 litters (original and at least one of the other 2). So now 4 yrs out the original, 2 daughters, and probably one or 2 from the new litter. You now have 5 dogs. Can you really manage and give attention to 5 dogs? if you have kids and family, sure. What if you want to add an outside dog, or a puppy or 2 comes back, or even the next years breeding-- you can easily be up to 8 or 9 dogs. Doesn't matter if you are in the UK, USA or France, if you are seriously breeding, you are going to accumulate more dogs unless you place the older ones too. I understand it is hard. Heck I kept and spayed a very doggy bitch (Rottweiler) because my child and husband fell in love with her. Fortunately I had a cobreeder with her half-sibling who took the next generation and sent me the 3rd. But those are ROTTIES who are often gone by 8 to 10 yrs, not much longer lived Basenjis. If you can't do it, don't get into breeding. Either you are serious about moving the breed forward which means a long term plan and generations... or you just want to breed once for the experience. If you are in a breed that is not already bleeding out with massive overbreeding, and you do it right, many once-only folks produce puppies for which there are homes and I don't fault them. But those who are dedicated and keep at it for decades are the keepers of the breed and my hat goes off to their work. Btw, you want horror stories -- try the Benkisers who had an accidental breeding they didn't want to ever breed from but decided one would be good for working sheep-- so they (their phrase for it) "grew them out" to 6 mos, picked one and SHOT THE OTHER 5. Add in they had a 6 yr old daughter-- well I have never spoken to them since and it's been some 12 yrs. Or Felicia Luberich -- another Rottie breeder, who posted on the AOL boards that she had a litter of puppies she couldn't sell and was going to euthanize them all. Rescue folks BEGGED HER to let them spay/neuter and find them homes. She said if she couldn't get her $2,000 per puppy, no one could have them and she was going to kill them. Perhaps when you work in rescue as long as I have, you appreciate people who do what is responsible for their dogs. And rehoming a dog at almost any age just isn't irresponsible to me.
  • A

    Breeding a basenji?

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    tanzaT
    @Kipawa: I think most people will agree that neutering a dog does not spoil their spirit or temperament. More often, spaying or neutering results in a more calm, balanced animal. I agree, but we have lots of people on the Forum from over the "pond" and they have most different ideas about spay/neuter, different culture, different ideas…. and that is their right.... sometimes we all will need to agree to disagree..
  • V

    Why do breeders mix Basenjis with other breeds?

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    N
    I have to agree with Janneke. There are some sport mixes that are very responsibly bred. Most often these dogs are bred for Flyball, and involve a herding breed mixed with a terrier. The border-staffy mixes mix the drive of the Staffy with the intelligence and trainablility of the herding dogs, but also to mitigate a bit of the herding breed sensitivity. I think a team of 4 Borderstaffys holds the flyball record right now? They are supposed to be great for what they are bred for. Super-fast, drivey, but with the "off-switch" that is missing in a lot of terriers. They supposedly breed pretty consistent, and the breeders heath test, and try to be responsible. The border-jack is also really popular in flyball and agility. They are smart, super drivey and hyper. As far as I know, neither of these mixes has been picked up by the BYB's and Puppy Mills. Neither of these mixes should go to non-sports homes. Lots of mushers mix greyhound or whippet into their northern breeds to add some speed to their teams. Or they often choose to breed mixed breed dogs that are superior lead dogs or the like. I see no problem with purpose-bred mixes, as long as their breeders are as responsible with their planning and placements as we would expect from any responsible purebred breeder.
  • B

    Fearful Basenji

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    B
    Thank you guys so much for the information. I will definately write it as you said. Maybe he will then stop being so ugly. I know that there is no way he will let me or anyone that knows me have her. All I know is I paid him back for the dog, paid to fly it to them and now I get to be rimmed out on the phone, emails, etc. I just love hearing what an irresponsible breeder I am and how much I abused the dog. It just makes me fighting mad to be accused of such things. I love my dogs so much and they live better than I do it seems… Thanks again, you guys are the best.
  • WBLW

    In-Breeding/Line Breeding

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    tanzaT
    @Quercus: <> Right...I wasn't sure if that was the litter that Sue was referring to? But I don't know of her doing any other brother/sister breeding. So yes, Ariel is a product of that breeding. The idea was to do a test breeding to see what genetically, if anything, might be brought out. By doing an inbreeding, you can 'expose' recessive genes, and see what you've actually got. You can also set (as in permanantly set) type...but, that wasn't the goal in Sue/Jeff's breeding. In this case, the two "best" "typey" puppies from this litter will most likely be bred on from, as long as they test out as genetically and physically healthy, they will most likely be out-crossed, to bring in different genes. Ariel's brother, George, is quite stunning, and is easily the best looking puppy in the litter. Ariel has a beautiful head, but is long in body, short in leg. Neither one is what we consider a "show dog" ;) And the litter's sire is quite handsome!.... the dam of the litter, while long in the back and short on leg (like it sounds Ariel is) has a great temperament... both are great to build on the future.... and breeding out from these pups will be great to build on too.... I am pretty sure that would be the breeding Sue was talking about, like you I don't know of any other brother/sister breeding she and Jeff has done.